(FEEDBACK) Formula D Irwindale

[_PG_]

you forget half the fd tracks are parking lots. and down in texas, we have drift days in parking lots that let us see around 90mph in a stock z, less in a ka car, more in something that can pick up speed fast. just this weekend i was drifting at the top of third manjing down a straight away after the first corner. parking lots can have lots of space to pick up speed.

A.) FD shouldn't have tracks be in Parking lots. Chicago has one of the best tracks in the US (Tire Rack test facility), so does NJ (Street Course at Englishtown). Texas? I dunno. Cali has Buttonwillow (Other best drift track in US) Willowsprings (Huge complex with a freaking mountain road "mock touge" for pete's sake!!!) and of course Sonoma and Irwindale. Irwindale sucks but at the same time its kinda cool cause everyone knows the track already and its really high speed so its exciting...


Wait, in fact ALL FD courses are high speed. How about some Variation... D1 has high speed (Irwindale, Tsukuba, Autopolis) with Technical (SUGO) Low Speed (Odaiba) and All the Above (Ebisu, Sekia Hills, Nikko, Bihoku... although the latter 3 are no longer run because they don't hold enough spectators Even though they are the best tracks in Japan Sounds like FD )



Another point... High Speed in Parking Lot is LAME I don't care how fast it is, there is no "Feeling" to the course. Not like coming out of Grape Vine hills section, accelerating up to 90+ mph, and drifting the blind over crest down hill decreasing radius and NARROWING "Offramp" corner. 3rd/4th gear initiate, ebrake extending, front locking into the downhill and downshifting to 2nd, getting on the gas and upshifting to 3rd to link the next corner going to the straight.... THAT is a real place for drifting. I don't care if yo can get to 150 mph in a parking lot... its still a flat peice of ground, there is no "track". There are no dirt drops, no scraping aero, no "Giri giri giri giri. Ah Kaikoii, Hariguchi baka des ne!", No rises, downhills, upsetting car balance, full driver/machine test like a real track.

[yukio@jic-magic]

A suggestion that was brought up while I was talking to some drivers was to get some sort of one on one with drivers and judges or let the drivers know how they did during qualifying. Some drivers actually will use this information to improve themselves on the next event. I am also aware that the judges are very busy with some various other things that they have to take care of througout the day but maybe if the judges left notes during qualifying and passed those along to the drivers would be most benificial.

[kidynomite]

A.) FD shouldn't have tracks be in Parking lots. Chicago has one of the best tracks in the US (Tire Rack test facility), so does NJ (Street Course at Englishtown). Texas? I dunno. Cali has Buttonwillow (Other best drift track in US) Willowsprings (Huge complex with a freaking mountain road "mock touge" for pete's sake!!!) and of course Sonoma and Irwindale. Irwindale sucks but at the same time its kinda cool cause everyone knows the track already and its really high speed so its exciting...


Wait, in fact ALL FD courses are high speed. How about some Variation... D1 has high speed (Irwindale, Tsukuba, Autopolis) with Technical (SUGO) Low Speed (Odaiba) and All the Above (Ebisu, Sekia Hills, Nikko, Bihoku... although the latter 3 are no longer run because they don't hold enough spectators Even though they are the best tracks in Japan Sounds like FD )



Another point... High Speed in Parking Lot is LAME I don't care how fast it is, there is no "Feeling" to the course. Not like coming out of Grape Vine hills section, accelerating up to 90+ mph, and drifting the blind over crest down hill decreasing radius and NARROWING "Offramp" corner. 3rd/4th gear initiate, ebrake extending, front locking into the downhill and downshifting to 2nd, getting on the gas and upshifting to 3rd to link the next corner going to the straight.... THAT is a real place for drifting. I don't care if yo can get to 150 mph in a parking lot... its still a flat peice of ground, there is no "track". There are no dirt drops, no scraping aero, no "Giri giri giri giri. Ah Kaikoii, Hariguchi baka des ne!", No rises, downhills, upsetting car balance, full driver/machine test like a real track.

I have to agree 110%

The mst appealing track in FD to me is Atlanta. All these lot courses suck. So far we (ClubFR/Drift Association midwest) have not used any parking lots. I am partially glad we havent, but this is from a more experienced driver's stand point.

For Chicago we use/used/will use 4 different tracks. 3 of them being go kart tracks. Now I think the biggest issue with FD is thier need to make it the total package with thousands of fans and seating. I can understand to some point why its needed (money), but I would rather see a smaller scale event on a technical course. All these high speed courses are fun to some extent, but generally are setup the same way. But I think FD would benefit from having a more technical course, it would also give the privateers (with less than 350HP) a fighting chance.

And ya that willow springs course looks amazing. Who cares if there is no room for seating or a huge tv, its the drifting that will make the event, not what surrounds it.

[Slapshotnerd]

Answer: NO!! They don't KNOW. Just like Formula D judges (they might as well all be announcers) (besides those who drift aka Utsumi). I'm not saying that FD judges don't know ANYTHING about drifting... I understand they've been around for a while and they've seen drifting a lot. But have they DONE IT DONE IT... Like ran mountain passes, drifted on the track banging off of 3rd/4th gear? Locked up the front brakes coming into a corner and then getting on the gas fast enough to sustain the same angle and speed, just with some flair and style??? I mean you don't need judges to sit there and judge Speed, Line, Angle. That can easily be done electronically... there, no more discrepancy. Judges sould be knowledgeable to the point where execution and technique and circumstance is accounted for, style, progressiveness, flare, etc etc. When they know how to do what is being done, and can understand how and why the driver does everything, then they can judge and more fairly make an EDUCATED decision.



So.... yeah. What were we talking about. Oh. Announcers.

You know, I almost think you'd make a good judge. But unfortunately... your bias gets in the way

[TIREKILLER]

A.) FD shouldn't have tracks be in Parking lots. Chicago has one of the best tracks in the US (Tire Rack test facility), so does NJ (Street Course at Englishtown). Texas? I dunno. Cali has Buttonwillow (Other best drift track in US) Willowsprings (Huge complex with a freaking mountain road "mock touge" for pete's sake!!!) and of course Sonoma and Irwindale. Irwindale sucks but at the same time its kinda cool cause everyone knows the track already and its really high speed so its exciting...


Wait, in fact ALL FD courses are high speed. How about some Variation... D1 has high speed (Irwindale, Tsukuba, Autopolis) with Technical (SUGO) Low Speed (Odaiba) and All the Above (Ebisu, Sekia Hills, Nikko, Bihoku... although the latter 3 are no longer run because they don't hold enough spectators Even though they are the best tracks in Japan Sounds like FD )



Another point... High Speed in Parking Lot is LAME I don't care how fast it is, there is no "Feeling" to the course. Not like coming out of Grape Vine hills section, accelerating up to 90+ mph, and drifting the blind over crest down hill decreasing radius and NARROWING "Offramp" corner. 3rd/4th gear initiate, ebrake extending, front locking into the downhill and downshifting to 2nd, getting on the gas and upshifting to 3rd to link the next corner going to the straight.... THAT is a real place for drifting. I don't care if yo can get to 150 mph in a parking lot... its still a flat peice of ground, there is no "track". There are no dirt drops, no scraping aero, no "Giri giri giri giri. Ah Kaikoii, Hariguchi baka des ne!", No rises, downhills, upsetting car balance, full driver/machine test like a real track.

This right here disproves the theory that "all the people who would be good judges are already driving". There are PLENTY of educated,intereseted individuals who could fulfil the responsibility of judging these events.


And on the anouncer note, I love J-Rod, but i can understand how somepeople could get annoyed by him. And there have even been times when i have cringed at his descriptions or explanations of things. But all in all he does a great job. I second the vote for Adam to co announce. And if not that let one of the drivers (preferably a different one each event) who has been eleminated earlier than expected (as in not in top 16) to take care of the technical side of the anouncing.


As far as venues go. I dont really know what to say. I did the first three events of the season this year and i have to say that Atlanta made the biggest impact on me. This sport doesnt truly shine until its held on a real track. Being from Houston all we have is parking lots or some jacked up 3/8ths mile oval track or somegay *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*. Atlanta was the first time i had driven on a real race track EVER. Those speeds and the elevation changes and the rumble strips and of course the spectators. Its a whole different level than anything i was used to. I think every event on the circuit should be like that.
Parking lots are where it starts but the profesional series should be held on real racetracks or atleast a street circuit.

[_PG_]

You know, I almost think you'd make a good judge. But unfortunately... your bias gets in the way

Hahaha. I'm only biased towards good driving. LOL.


No but on that note... D1's main judge owns a damn company that sponsors a D1 car and his reputation is riding on that. No wonder why Kazama is doing well this year. Last year Keiichi tried to push him so much but he kept f#$^%ing up so bad it was more than obvious what Keiichi was doing... I mean you can't let your driver win if he spins or crashes! Haha! But he tried!


Anyways, i'm just a driver who can't afford to do Formula D, I don't work for a magazine or own a shop, why would I ever be considered for a judge?

[aaronlosey]

i am in no way saying parking lots are better than tracks, i think that is super obvious. i was only commenting on the feeder series using parking lots to KEEP THE COST DOWN. thats all. i mean, they already use parking lots for most events, and all your trying to do is weed the field down, and the parking lots should make this possible. this is so the real drivers get more practice time the day before the event, then you do normal qualifying with the seeded drivers the day of the event. otherwise they would have to go to a 3 day event setup to allow for enough practice time, and i can't really see them doing that, unless they moved game day to sunday.

[Formula D]

I would love to have all our events at major racetracks, but the fact of the matter is that there are more things that go into picking a venue than just a good course. We have sponsor obligations to fulfill and must be able to provide a return for them and also provide a competitive course. So as much as we wish we could have eight Road Atlanta's or Infineon Raceway's we have to balance that with a parking lot style facility from time to time. We do however try to create the best environment with production that we can to make the course look as cool as possible. We probably won't go to Houston next year and we found a cool track in the Northwest so we will keep you posted as we move forward.

FD

[J-Rod]

I would love to have all our events at major racetracks, but the fact of the matter is that there are more things that go into picking a venue than just a good course. We have sponsor obligations to fulfill and must be able to provide a return for them and also provide a competitive course. So as much as we wish we could have eight Road Atlanta's or Infineon Raceway's we have to balance that with a parking lot style facility from time to time. We do however try to create the best environment with production that we can to make the course look as cool as possible. We probably won't go to Houston next year and we found a cool track in the Northwest so we will keep you posted as we move forward.

FD

Let me first start by saying I don't "work" for Formula D persay but I'm the Voice of Formula D and am part of the team.
Basically I;m not in the office ever but seeing how closely Formula D is involved and takes into consideration all your feedback you gusy have to appreciate that!

That's by the people for the people.
All the comments don't go unseen or noted!

Keep it coming!

[Jim @ FD]

Here are my 2cents about some of the issues being discussed...

Tracks - Like Ryan said there is a TON of factors that go into choosing tracks/venues. It is not as easy as some people make it out to be. First, we are at the bottom of the totem pole. Tracks give us dates literally last. Someone mentioned Englishtown; have them call us. I've tried for a year to get them to do something with us, but still nothing. Second, of course we have to choose tracks that hold enough people. No fans at the event, no sponsors, no sponsors, no money for anyone, no money, no events. Third, if we have to choose between parking lot that is within realistic driving distance for fans and racetrack that is in hte boonies, we are going to have to pick parking lot. Also, don't forget Odaiba is basically a parking lot. Finally, Japan has more usable tracks on an island the size of California.

Speed Channel - Again, there are alot of things behind the scenes that not everyone knows about and some of it I cannot publicly discuss. But let me tell all of you this. We went to every single network about FD TV. No one except for G4 stepped up. Can the shows get better? Of course. All of this is new for everyone, but everyone is working hard to continue to improve. Speed, they brushed us off. So what do I say to that, too bad, they missed out, G4 believes in FD and believes in drifting, no other network did. Lets all support them for supporting us.

[Will Pwr]

Just my $0.02 as well

As with any "new" sport or series, there are growing pains and nothing is perfect or ideal....is there room for improvment? Yes. Are there big picture factors that can be limiting right now? yes....but be it that drifting in the US is "young", all of the FD staff, drivers, teams and everyone affiliated have really brought it lightyears forward, professionaly, in such a short amount of time. Also keep in mind that FD is the only US based series and everyone involved (drivers, teams, supporters, etc.) is showing great progression in building the series, further establishing the sport and supporting the cause.

[_PG_]

Here are my 2cents about some of the issues being discussed...

Tracks - Like Ryan said there is a TON of factors that go into choosing tracks/venues. It is not as easy as some people make it out to be. First, we are at the bottom of the totem pole. Tracks give us dates literally last. Someone mentioned Englishtown; have them call us. I've tried for a year to get them to do something with us, but still nothing. Second, of course we have to choose tracks that hold enough people. No fans at the event, no sponsors, no sponsors, no money for anyone, no money, no events. Third, if we have to choose between parking lot that is within realistic driving distance for fans and racetrack that is in hte boonies, we are going to have to pick parking lot. Also, don't forget Odaiba is basically a parking lot. Finally, Japan has more usable tracks on an island the size of California.

I Totally agree with you guys about the tracks and understand the venues. I understand FD is not drifting as a sport, more of a show to fans and w/o fans why have FD, might as well just have all the private events like back in the day. Venue choice understood.

I think that you guys can incorporate more technical corners into the tracks though... IE making a tight double apex corner in the shape of: |___| after the main sweeper and flip, going into the small bank... Could have made that plain-jane sweeper into a cool double apex 3-sided box... makes judging easier, either you make the course good or you suck and don't clip the apexes and have to straighten out for the 2nd corner...

I dunno, examples like that would be a nice touch for us real drivers that come out to support FD and especially the ones driving it.

If you guys from Slipstream are at all interested in anything i might offer, PM me. Forsberg and Tony A. are my roomies and we had this discussion earlier today.

[hatebbobbarker]

I got a chance to talk to j rod, and I realized a couple things, the guy is into the sport, hes not just some smuck off the street he enjoys drifting and watching it as much as we do, and im sure its important to him that people continue to have interest in the sport. I still think a 2nd announcer perhaps someone that is more technical would help. 2 heads are better then one after all and a dialog would be good for those 15 minute gaps that are supposed to be 5 minutes. Talking more to drivers during the gaps would be another idea. Sorry that I attacked you personally jarod. ill try to be more constructive with my criticism from now on.


as for tracks, willow springs could be *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*ing awesome, but it is a drive for most people, a drive that most people wouldnt make. althought wed all get to take angeles there, woot! definitely beats taking the 5 to sonoma.

[J-Rod]

I got a chance to talk to j rod, and I realized a couple things, the guy is into the sport, hes not just some smuck off the street he enjoys drifting and watching it as much as we do, and im sure its important to him that people continue to have interest in the sport. I still think a 2nd announcer perhaps someone that is more technical would help. 2 heads are better then one after all and a dialog would be good for those 15 minute gaps that are supposed to be 5 minutes. Talking more to drivers during the gaps would be another idea. Sorry that I attacked you personally jarod. ill try to be more constructive with my criticism from now on.


as for tracks, willow springs could be *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*ing awesome, but it is a drive for most people, a drive that most people wouldnt make. althought wed all get to take angeles there, woot! definitely beats taking the 5 to sonoma.

Thanks buddy I'm glad that you see where I'm coming from.
I think a technical advisor would be good as well but no driver wants to give up driving to be up on the stand with me.

Thanks again, I know you're a ninja but Pirate's have skurvy and an attack pirate!

[my 1 88 u]

A.) FD shouldn't have tracks be in Parking lots. Chicago has one of the best tracks in the US (Tire Rack test facility), so does NJ (Street Course at Englishtown). Texas? I dunno. Cali has Buttonwillow (Other best drift track in US) Willowsprings (Huge complex with a freaking mountain road "mock touge" for pete's sake!!!) and of course Sonoma and Irwindale. Irwindale sucks but at the same time its kinda cool cause everyone knows the track already and its really high speed so its exciting...


Wait, in fact ALL FD courses are high speed. How about some Variation... D1 has high speed (Irwindale, Tsukuba, Autopolis) with Technical (SUGO) Low Speed (Odaiba) and All the Above (Ebisu, Sekia Hills, Nikko, Bihoku... although the latter 3 are no longer run because they don't hold enough spectators Even though they are the best tracks in Japan Sounds like FD )



Another point... High Speed in Parking Lot is LAME I don't care how fast it is, there is no "Feeling" to the course. Not like coming out of Grape Vine hills section, accelerating up to 90+ mph, and drifting the blind over crest down hill decreasing radius and NARROWING "Offramp" corner. 3rd/4th gear initiate, ebrake extending, front locking into the downhill and downshifting to 2nd, getting on the gas and upshifting to 3rd to link the next corner going to the straight.... THAT is a real place for drifting. I don't care if yo can get to 150 mph in a parking lot... its still a flat peice of ground, there is no "track". There are no dirt drops, no scraping aero, no "Giri giri giri giri. Ah Kaikoii, Hariguchi baka des ne!", No rises, downhills, upsetting car balance, full driver/machine test like a real track.

best post ever