(FEEDBACK) Formula D Irwindale

[NismoSigma]

I just wanted to say that I only went to one FD event this year that was Jersey. I got to see my favorite drifters, the people you look up to there and was just amazed at how everything was handled. The drivers wanna talk to the fans and everyone gets along. Sure it was like 45 farenheit and it was just getting colder, but the realization that I was there made me warm! Wherever the events are held, to me it doesnt matter, as long as I get to see the drifters and the skills (and Jrod lol) im happy. Thanks FD for giving us guys a sport we can all watch and drivers we can all relate to.!!!

PS- PLEASE COME BACK TO NJ!!!!

[Tapethejunkie]

-person talkin needs more things to talk about
-we dont need a 3hr half time from prac to top 16, not enough things to do for 3hr break....
-should have judges like D1 and D1 plastic barriers, looks better and is easier to tell the course
-go to speed instead of G4
-liked the pits

[Slapshotnerd]

Hahaha. I'm only biased towards good driving. LOL.


No but on that note... D1's main judge owns a damn company that sponsors a D1 car and his reputation is riding on that. No wonder why Kazama is doing well this year. Last year Keiichi tried to push him so much but he kept f#$^%ing up so bad it was more than obvious what Keiichi was doing... I mean you can't let your driver win if he spins or crashes! Haha! But he tried!


Anyways, i'm just a driver who can't afford to do Formula D, I don't work for a magazine or own a shop, why would I ever be considered for a judge?

look at your sig.

I agree that you know your shiz. I've seen you post many atimes on here. I have over heard some of your conversations around the track. Technically speaking, i think you'd be perfect for the judging booth.

but...

.... you also are living with 2 of your best buddies, who are also drifters. if you were to judge, the whistle blowing would start before anybody even shifted out of 1st gear.

With Keiichi, he has the company to separate him and the driver. it's not a lot of separation, but it's some. More than you would have with DA.


On another note, I would love to see some diagrams of some tracks that you would like to see. I suck with visualizing things that people describe... but out the MS Paint skillz, draw a little picture, and throw it up here! Hell, I'll host it for ya if you want!

[Brian]

Just look at some of the tracks in Japan.
They ahve some bad arse stuff.
Bihoku Highland is awesome.
Sekia Hills also.

[my 1 88 u]

Nikko

[daytona350z]

Here I am to defend myself to all the negativity and all the "core" drifters.
I apolgize if you find me "Annoying" or repetative but there are thousands of other fans that aren't as "core" as you that need to hear the break down of each run and also enjoy the entertainment value of Formula Drift on top of the competition level.


If you noticed I was bummed and ready to run along woit you guys yet we have alot of logistics with the event from SCCA holding the cars, G4 Producing a TV Show, Cars breaking down and more.

I really enjoy what I do and am sorry for those of you that don't like me.
I love Toshi he's great but were Formula D NOT D1.

Let me know how you think I could do better as I will be MC'ing next year as well.

Suggestions/Criticism not negativity is encouraged.

I do alot more for Formula Drift than anybody knows so if you think I don't know what I'm talking about ASK ANY DRIVER about me and how I help the sport on top of just talking all day for 8 hours.

I will help you if you give me the chance, get to know me and introduce yourself next time you'll see I'm just like you.

Peace,
Thanks,

hi j-rod,
i really didnt mean to come off as a prick to you, if i did, im sorry, but im not the best at putting what i think into text. honestly, i think there is just too much time without enough "stuff" to say. a second person would be great up there in the booth with you, always good to see different sides/hear different voices. at the same time, i realize you have a hard enough time up there alone with no one else talking, its a hard job, and i can only see you improving as you go along.

but i know it isnt d1 and i dont want it to be. we have a different style over here, and thats what makes it nice to see those two sides "against" each other as we will in december.

im glad you are very well into the sport and not just some fanboy that watched initial d and wants to pretend to be takumi.

again, i apologize for coming off as a pr*ck, a full day of school+traffic puts me inm a bad mood.

[J-Rod]

hi j-rod,
i really didnt mean to come off as a prick to you, if i did, im sorry, but im not the best at putting what i think into text. honestly, i think there is just too much time without enough "stuff" to say. a second person would be great up there in the booth with you, always good to see different sides/hear different voices. at the same time, i realize you have a hard enough time up there alone with no one else talking, its a hard job, and i can only see you improving as you go along.

but i know it isnt d1 and i dont want it to be. we have a different style over here, and thats what makes it nice to see those two sides "against" each other as we will in december.

im glad you are very well into the sport and not just some fanboy that watched initial d and wants to pretend to be takumi.

again, i apologize for coming off as a pr*ck, a full day of school+traffic puts me inm a bad mood.

Thanks man I appreciate the feedback and the kind words you just wrote.
P.S.S. Tony Angelo lived with my wife and I for a couple months.
I am all about helping out the community and am just like you!

I'm building an S13 that willbe at SEMA too......
S13 I know like everybody else in the world, oh well you'll see it'll be cool!

[daytona350z]

I'm building an S13 that willbe at SEMA too......
S13 I know like everybody else in the world, oh well you'll see it'll be cool!

bring it to drift day too

[Octagon]

Yes, yes, yes, Japan's hole-in-the-wall permanent autocross courses are great for drifting. They're also horrific for touring car racing, open wheel racing, or endurance racing.

Think about this, here's the ages of the major American road courses.

Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course - est 1962 (43years old)
Road America at Elkhart Lake - est 1955 (50years old)
Mosport International Raceway - est 1961 (44years old)
Brainerd International Raceway - est 1963 (42years old)
Lime Rock Park - est 1957 (48years old)
Watkins Glen - 1st permanent course est 1953 (52years old)
Sears Point - est 1968 (37years old)
Laguna Seca - est 1957 (48years old)
Portland Raceway - est 1961 (44years old)


In other words, these courses have been around a lot longer than drifting and have stayed around by being the best locations for road racing in America. Not a one of the Japanese courses (save Fuji and Suzuka, and Fuji has just been freshly bastardized by Hermann Tilke) has that sort of claim of longevity, nor that level of competition on their courses.

Yes, Ebisu's fun for two Nissans to run sideways on, but where's Japan's 12 Hours of Sebring? 24 Hours of Daytona? Why are no major international series clamoring to run anywhere beyond Motegi, Fuji, and Suzuka in Japan?

[hatebbobbarker]

Yes, yes, yes, Japan's hole-in-the-wall permanent autocross courses are great for drifting. They're also horrific for touring car racing, open wheel racing, or endurance racing.

Think about this, here's the ages of the major American road courses.

Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course - est 1962 (43years old)
Road America at Elkhart Lake - est 1955 (50years old)
Mosport International Raceway - est 1961 (44years old)
Brainerd International Raceway - est 1963 (42years old)
Lime Rock Park - est 1957 (48years old)
Watkins Glen - 1st permanent course est 1953 (52years old)
Sears Point - est 1968 (37years old)
Laguna Seca - est 1957 (48years old)
Portland Raceway - est 1961 (44years old)


In other words, these courses have been around a lot longer than drifting and have stayed around by being the best locations for road racing in America. Not a one of the Japanese courses (save Fuji and Suzuka, and Fuji has just been freshly bastardized by Hermann Tilke) has that sort of claim of longevity, nor that level of competition on their courses.

Yes, Ebisu's fun for two Nissans to run sideways on, but where's Japan's 12 Hours of Sebring? 24 Hours of Daytona? Why are no major international series clamoring to run anywhere beyond Motegi, Fuji, and Suzuka in Japan?

riverside raceway should have been on that list damnit, leveling it was the biggest mistake ever.

[_PG_]

Yes, yes, yes, Japan's hole-in-the-wall permanent autocross courses are great for drifting. They're also horrific for touring car racing, open wheel racing, or endurance racing.

Think about this, here's the ages of the major American road courses.

Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course - est 1962 (43years old)
Road America at Elkhart Lake - est 1955 (50years old)
Mosport International Raceway - est 1961 (44years old)
Brainerd International Raceway - est 1963 (42years old)
Lime Rock Park - est 1957 (48years old)
Watkins Glen - 1st permanent course est 1953 (52years old)
Sears Point - est 1968 (37years old)
Laguna Seca - est 1957 (48years old)
Portland Raceway - est 1961 (44years old)


In other words, these courses have been around a lot longer than drifting and have stayed around by being the best locations for road racing in America. Not a one of the Japanese courses (save Fuji and Suzuka, and Fuji has just been freshly bastardized by Hermann Tilke) has that sort of claim of longevity, nor that level of competition on their courses.

Yes, Ebisu's fun for two Nissans to run sideways on, but where's Japan's 12 Hours of Sebring? 24 Hours of Daytona? Why are no major international series clamoring to run anywhere beyond Motegi, Fuji, and Suzuka in Japan?

How does that relate to drifting? Japan is the size of California. AND as far as Internationally acclaimed touring-car and Frmula car raceways go, i think the ratio is pretty on-par. S#$% F1 in Japan is way bigger than in the States. And Japan has a stop on the WRC tour. US doesn't. AND japan has 5,000 times more and BETTER drift tracks than the US. And again... its the size of CALIFORNIA. I think they have us beat in those departments if you ask me...


Sure there is no IRL and NASCAR, but who cares about those when there is WRC. Eff that.

[D1 DRIFTER]

i think that anything will help out wether it be different judges each event a new course design for each track next year anything liek that keep up the good work to everyone at FD and the drivers

[Octagon]

You miss my point entirely, PG, as I expected actually.

My point was that America's road courses by and large were built with international road racing in mind. They were designed so that fields of 20, 30, 60 cars could race at once safely.

And this was in the days when Ferrari 330P4's shared the track with Abarths and MGC GTS's.

Too many people in drifting complain that America's road courses aren't suitable for drifting. Guess what? The rest of the world complains that Japanese road courses (except for Fuji, Motegi, and Suzuka) are unsuitable for road racing - THEIR INTENDED PURPOSE.

Each one of the tracks I listed plays host to a major international series. Hell, Watkins Glen and Mosport BOTH hosted Gran Prix. Mid-Ohio is the spiritual home of the world's oldest road racing sanctioning body - the SCCA. Brainerd is THE track to win at in AMA Superbike. And so on and so forth.

I repeat, beyond Fuji, Suzuka, and Motegi, Japan has *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* for road courses.

Our road courses are SUPERIOR ROAD COURSES and it shows in their longevity and in the fact that they can pack the folks in without drifting. That's one of the biggest reasons why Formula Drift isn't going to get in at American road courses. They don't need us.

The grand old American road courses have draw all their own, and are powerful enough in their own personal draw and stature in racing that they pick and choose who races when on their calendar. Road America turned away Champ Car and ALMS this year on their own whim and didn't think a thing of it, and ALMS and Champ Car felt the hit and are clamoring to get back those dates because they need Road America more than Road America needs them.

That's the sort of wall that drifting runs up against, and so long as we're not willing to play ball and stroke the egos/wallets/interests of the big tracks, we're stuck in Soldier Field.

Professionalism, capitalism, and downplaying the insipid unrefined "youth" atmosphere that the import magazine/MTV culture wants to force down this motorsport's throat are all what's needed to be done before the big historic tracks look at us as anything more than carnival side shows.

They don't think we belong there, and they certainly don't need us to stay alive, so we have to prove them wrong by belonging.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Formula Drift needs to become more absorbed in the SCCA culture, and less in the MTV culture.

[kidynomite]

A lot of the "drift" courses in japan are karting tracks not road racing tracks. We have a decent amount of road racing tracks in America, a HUGE amount of them are too big for drifting with no linking turns.

We do have a decent amount of karting tracks across the US though. Quite a few of these tracks are a lot more fun than the parking lot courses used in FD. But I can understand how they are not FD/fan friendly.

On the whole being in bufu thing, "if you build it they will come". Expect the unexpected. I just read in Modified that they expected like 2000 in the first Falken Drift showoff, but ended up w/ like 7K. I flew from Chicago to California for D1 last year (in February) and came back again in december for GT Live/D1 Japan vs. US. I know I wasnt the only one coming from far to watch.

Over here in Chicago we have regulars coming from Minnesota, Wisconsin, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, to our events that are in bufu too. But I guess that is mainly for drivers, but some spectators come out and watch us from far distances, and this is just for practices with amatures.

Now what in my opinion would work best for FD to allow optimum space for vendors and fans, and a high speed road course would be ovals. But I do not mean Irwindale or the Wall, I mean ovals with infield courses, we have quite a few of them.

US Drift (I think thats who ran the event) had a drift event in Arizona on an oval with a road course on the infield. There were a few videos out and this would make a great FD course. High speed course with a few consecutive corners on an actual road course (rumble strips and all). Its Phoenix International Raceway.

Road Course


Not saying that has to be a course you use, but there are a few similarily setup courses. There is one I visited about a month ago in St. Louis that we will be aiming at using next year for a competition and other events. Its 5 hours from where we are but we cannot pass up the oppurtunity to run on such a high speed course.

And these are not too expensive of places to rent, I can't imagine how much you guys pay for some of the places you have used, but if little names like ClubFR (us) and US Drift can get them w/o lots of sponsors (none in our case) or spectator fees. Then I am sure FD can afford it.

I myself will be trying to get into FD next year in as many events as possible. Atlanta is a definate just due to the course and Chicago just for location. Hopefully in the next few years FD will host more events at better courses, maybe even mini series for amatures on the "better" tracks that cannot accomodate the show aspect of an FD event.

- Simba Nyemba

[_PG_]

You miss my point entirely, PG, as I expected actually.

My point was that America's road courses by and large were built with international road racing in mind. They were designed so that fields of 20, 30, 60 cars could race at once safely.

Too many people in drifting complain that America's road courses aren't suitable for drifting. Guess what? The rest of the world complains that Japanese road courses (except for Fuji, Motegi, and Suzuka) are unsuitable for road racing - THEIR INTENDED PURPOSE.

Well we're talking about drifting, not racing. Did i say I wanted to see a drift competition at Watkins Glen? I named a couple of courses that are not too well kown but i have BEEN TO and DRIFTED ON and in my EXPERIENCE would be perfect (if they had seating capacity)...

I repeat, beyond Fuji, Suzuka, and Motegi, Japan has *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* for road courses.

Our road courses are SUPERIOR ROAD COURSES and it shows in their longevity and in the fact that they can pack the folks in without drifting. That's one of the biggest reasons why Formula Drift isn't going to get in at American road courses. They don't need us.

Lonegivty and superiority? That's why America's F1 stop is like its D1 stop a half-assed OVAL-derived course. Besides the banking, the rest of the course is FLAT. Shoot, MALAYSIA's Grands Prix track is better than ours!!!! F1 in Japan is one of the drivers' favorite tracks besides Spa. And uh longevity... pull up dates on when these tracks were built. Japan was destroyed during WWII and didn't even adopt Western-based culture until well after the war, how can you say because of their place in history and not have a racetrack around as long as America makes there tracks inferior?

Well sh!t then I guess by your logic America isn't at the top either. Nurburgring has been holding the most prestigious races since pre WWII era and is still a viable testing ground and racecourse. We don't have that, never will. Want to go back in time and pretend La Sarthe (Le Mans curcuit) was never created so that we can be superior to that too? Man, our 24hr Sports Car race... Daytona... is not nearly that prestigious. While ALMS may need that US track, the rest of the world doesn't!!!

The grand old American road courses have draw all their own, and are powerful enough in their own personal draw and stature in racing that they pick and choose who races when on their calendar. Road America turned away Champ Car and ALMS this year on their own whim and didn't think a thing of it, and ALMS and Champ Car felt the hit and are clamoring to get back those dates because they need Road America more than Road America needs them.

Right, you are talking about American series though. Not many European sanctioning bodies would really give a damn if Road America is booked solid or not.

This is my point: When it comes to Sports-car racing and Formula racing, America is not the end-all be-all of the motorsports world, no matter how long the tracks have been around or what races they SAW in the past (I like Watkins Glen... but it's past its Heyday).

If you wanna talk about NASCAR, Midget Sprints, Drag racing, yeah America has a leg up on the rest of the world (who... isn't concerned about that kinda stuff anyways).

That's the sort of wall that drifting runs up against, and so long as we're not willing to play ball and stroke the egos/wallets/interests of the big tracks, we're stuck in Soldier Field.

Professionalism, capitalism, and downplaying the insipid unrefined "youth" atmosphere that the import magazine/MTV culture wants to force down this motorsport's throat are all what's needed to be done before the big historic tracks look at us as anything more than carnival side shows.

They don't think we belong there, and they certainly don't need us to stay alive, so we have to prove them wrong by belonging.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Formula Drift needs to become more absorbed in the SCCA culture, and less in the MTV culture.

Hrmm. Well SCCA has done its fair share of killing Sports car and prototype racing with stringent regulations and restrictions. I dunno how absorbed I'd want to become. Sh!t they're practically killing drifting with their insurance rates etc...

And i don't think any of us dream about sliding around a 65 year old historic track (like that would ever happen.. "Here: Break our historic landmark race track with dirt drops...").



I think FD just needs to be in talks with some tracks about perhaps getting some stands in place and holding some rounds at real tracks, suitable for drifting (not road racing). Well, maybe they don't need to, people will still pay to go see FD no matter where it is. To avg. people Drifting is drifting. To drivers, Parking lots and make-shift courses are lame. But i guess FD is not for real driving, its for show. I'll accept that and just pray that we can work on track layouts and variation at least.




Sorry for the long post guys... this Octagon cat thinks I dunno what he is talking about and I just wanna show not only do i know what is up, I have good ideas that can help FD.


Good point #1: If the venues are forcing you into less-than desireable tracks or locations, make the best out of it by being creative with course designs. I'll post up a pic of what i mean.

Good point #2: The access to drivers and pits is awesome and its great for fans (although music.... meh the ultra club pop trendy hip-hop was kinda iffy. At the DA booth, we did our part by putting the Mega Phone up to the CD player and blasting Heavy Metal!) But yeah, from what i saw, its was really cool to see the fans walking around and being up close with their favorite cars and drivers.

Good point #3: The judging is weak. I know, i know, its a problem finding judges. But I have friends in Japan who drift with/have taken around (the magazine editors). It was laughable to them that they are the JUDGES of US Pro drifting. Even the couple guys who i know that run D1 with Ucchi were wondering how he got to Judge. Either way... the judging has been the worst part of FD this year, its been soaked in controversy and politics and that's all i care to say about it.


Good point #4: FD could do its part to help the small guys too... I didn't compete in FD (can't afford transport for anything outside of cali, so i could've gone to 2 rounds) because of a couple reasons:
*Entrance fee (and WAITING LIST???) of $250.
*My car has a 6 point cage (4pt back 1/2 with 2 door bars) but not the FULL thing like needed ($$$ and daily driver)
*I don't have $1200 to get all the Nomex gear

I think that an amatuer/privateer oriented series would be cool. No need to hire an announcer, no need to hire a DJ, booths, huge venues, hardly any crowds, etc.. If you guys have the big pull of FD and your sponsors, holding an event at a normal tracks and devising a feeder-series type deal should not be impossible. I dunno if anyone associated with FD would even consider doing this, but D1 has Advan Drift Series... The top finishers in Advan get a provisional D1 License (basically a qualification to the top 40 round or whatever). At least that's how i understand it.




I dunno, these are all kinda off-the-top of my head type stuff but you get the point. FD has a chance to take drifting places in the US and really make it shine. But before Formula D was here and long after its gone, we were/are still drifting. Know what I mean? I drift because its the most fun thing in the world, I don't care if its on ESPN or if Circuit City is promoting it, I just care about: Track layout, fellow drivers, broken aero and dirt drops. Those things are what make drifting fun, not the sponsors or race suits or huge banners or announcers or DJs.


*EDIT
Check out Kidynamite's post. We're on the same page, brotha!

p.s. if it's an Arizona event, do it btwn Oct. and April otherwise we'll die. And the cars too.