(FEEDBACK) Formula D Irwindale

[my 1 88 u]

Yes, yes, yes, Japan's hole-in-the-wall permanent autocross courses are great for drifting. They're also horrific for touring car racing, open wheel racing, or endurance racing.

Think about this, here's the ages of the major American road courses.

Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course - est 1962 (43years old)
Road America at Elkhart Lake - est 1955 (50years old)
Mosport International Raceway - est 1961 (44years old)
Brainerd International Raceway - est 1963 (42years old)
Lime Rock Park - est 1957 (48years old)
Watkins Glen - 1st permanent course est 1953 (52years old)
Sears Point - est 1968 (37years old)
Laguna Seca - est 1957 (48years old)
Portland Raceway - est 1961 (44years old)


In other words, these courses have been around a lot longer than drifting and have stayed around by being the best locations for road racing in America. Not a one of the Japanese courses (save Fuji and Suzuka, and Fuji has just been freshly bastardized by Hermann Tilke) has that sort of claim of longevity, nor that level of competition on their courses.

Yes, Ebisu's fun for two Nissans to run sideways on, but where's Japan's 12 Hours of Sebring? 24 Hours of Daytona? Why are no major international series clamoring to run anywhere beyond Motegi, Fuji, and Suzuka in Japan?

Japanese courses > American courses


Circuit Length: 5,821 m / 3.618 mile
Max Straight Length: 900 m
Course Width: 10-14 m
Number of Pit: 48


Circuit Length: 4,563 m / 2.852 mile
Max Straight Length: 1,475 m
Course Width: 15 - 25 m
Number of Pit: 45


Circuit Length: 4,801 m / 2.984 mile
Max Straight Length: 762 m
Course Width: 12 - 15 m
Number of Pit: 45


Circuit Length: 4,674 m / 2.905 mile
Max Straight Length: 902 m
Course Width: 12 - 15 m
Number of Pit: 46

[drift7]

catching up....

just saying things ive said before.....Fd and SCCA are doing a good job, My car has been inspected evertime i hit the track, and they were checking seatbelts, helmets...., course layouts are improveing.. you cant always have a pro road course...... just say no to the BOX..? although it could help in some situations??....

i would like to see corner judges...like D1...and nothing against tarzan or uichi (DRFT) but it seems like they are rockstars not judges... and the head judge is not a driver.... lets put some american drivers...or at least someone who seems like they care about whats going on and understand what is going on...

the pontiac won and they DQed him when there was prof in front of them that he was still on the track??? very un pro. then at round 6 did anyone else see the viper understeer and still move on...i really thought Ken won...i need to see a replay....

i only hope the judging improves for next year...this would be my biggest complant...and i know what the judges are looking for...what bothers me is what the seem to miss? At least in D1 you can Appeal to the judges....and the judges can admit to a mistake or recive info from a corner judge

i expect everything to improve as time goes on,, thanks G4, SCCA, slipstreem,..and everyone for makeing this happen in the US ...but lets keep improveing

[Formula D]

A couple tid bits of info as I am sure the more info you have the better everyone can create and express opinions.

- G4 has the largest amount of young males watching their programming, period. More than MTV, more than Speed. Oh, and young males not meaning 12 year olds.

- They are in 52 million homes. This is not far from Speed's

- G4 is one of the fastest growing network in the marketplace. It has been said that G4 is MTV and it is 1984. If I were them, that is a spot I would like to be in.

Of course no matter what network we are on we would support it trememdously, but no network out there would give you 15 original episodes, a primetime time showing (7:30pm on Sunday's), creative input and most importantly the ability to work directly with executives and have your show be one of, if not the most important iniatives for the network. All this in your freshmen year

Bottomline, G4 believes in drifting. Other networks would only have it on if they new it would work. G4 had it on even before it was known whether or not it would be successful programming. Like getting in early on a massive IPO, they invested in FD and I guarantee you, spending quite a bit of time running around in Hollywood and being in the TV landscape even to the point of having a face to face with the highest person you could get to at FOX, what we have at G4 is not only unprecedented in terms of TV in the Sport Compact market, it is also up there as well on the "incredibly rare" side for new programming in cable television as well.

For the many of you that don't have G4, I am sure you will soon. 2 million new households were added this year.

One of the most mentioned things we heard this year at Champ Car demo's ( that older, not cool audience someone mentioned before) was, "Oh ya I watch you guys on G4"

[my 1 88 u]

For the many of you that don't have G4, I am sure you will soon. 2 million new households were added this year.

well make sure g4tv talks to bellsouth cable

[TIREKILLER]

Time Warner too!

[Slapshotnerd]

I think I'm going to burn some bridges, but I really don't care since I have given up any intention of ever competing in D1 and Formula D.

How is it that a series sanctioned by SCCA, with all these "professionally done-up cars", can allow these competitions to happen WITHOUT ANY TECHNICAL INSPECTIONS??????

The only event I was at this year was Sonoma, and several of my friends competed in the non-seeded qualifying on Friday. NONE OF THEM EVER HAD THEIR CARS TECH INSPECTED.

Personally I think it is 1) a huge safety risk to everyone at the track, and 2) completely incomprehensible that you can have such an event and not do tech.

It is the equivilant of having an open-track event, and allow each car to just "run" on the track without having them pass tech.

If there was no tech inspection then what was the point of having those elaborate rules at the beginning of the season? Couldn't you just run with a Cusco cage, since it seems like someone else is gambling with your life?

And the most serious problem of all: I have not seen this problem brought up by ANY OF THE DRIVERS in the series, in public or in private. Only when I asked about it did they say "oh yeah there was no tech done".

Last year Mitch was an absolute *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* when it came to teching the cars one by one. This year it seems like everyone somehow fell asleep on the safety issue.

I really don't care for how the series is run, I no longer have any interest in participating (or even spectating) in it, but this safety issue pisses me off, and frankly if I was driving in the series I'd raise all hell.

No tech, no event. Simple as that.

-alex

I know that tech inspections were much harsher in Chicago and Irwindale. Not sure what changed, but several drivers who had been driving in the first 4 events had to make changes to their equipment in order to run in both chicago and irwindale. They were even inspecting the NOMEX suits at irwindale! So that HAS changed...

Sorry man i can't support a channel like G4 that can justify Street Fury and a few other shows as a legit television program. If anything it only proves my point that FD should be on SpeedTV. I do hope at the end of 06 you do reapporch Speed OLN and ESPN because this sport won't grow from G4 television like it can on the other networks. Now that you are coming on the radar the fact that you have Factory teams and even Americans driving I'm willing too bet Speed and the others are willing too sit at the table. (i hope you didnt burn any briges foreveryone sake) yes G4 did a good thing with FD but the way things are going at G4 they maynot even be around in 07. If it comes too taking a little less money too be on a sport channel than G4 in the long runs it will pay off. I promise you not one person in 40 that saw your demo runs ( at Road Tracks)even know what G4 TV is and never will see or watch it because you have a 30min show in 18hour block of television that has nothing doo with racing. but they know ESPN SPEED FOXSPORTS NETAlso fix this so it wont happen again

As JIM said, they approached these networks, and none of them were willing to even talk with them about drifting. G4 was willing. I would love to see "Drifting 2nite" on ESPN2 every sunday night, recapping what happened over the weekend. Hell, i would even love to see a 3 minute segment on the tuesday "RPM 2Nite" segment. But that's not something that any of us control. ESPN and the execs at other TV stations have that control. If you want them to change, you can't complain to Formula D - they are powerless. You need to complain directly to the networks.

Some things you can do to increase the pull of FD TV:
- call your cable company and ask how you can get G4 TV, and SPECIFICALLY MENTION THAT YOU ARE ORDERING IT BECAUSE OF FORMULA D!
- Email or Call G4 and tell them that the only thing you watch is FD TV, and thank them for taking a risk with Formula D. If you have suggestions on how to improve the show, please pass them along. But be sure to pair any constructive criticism with praise for the execs for taking the show on.
- email / contact speed channel and ESPN and ask them when they will start to do a segment on drifting. Keep bugging them. Call once a month. Ask them how drifting can get on RPM 2Nite or Sportscenter. Ask them what they use to evaluate whether or not they cover a specific sport. Tell your friends to call as well.

ANd on a counterpoint, there were several people who mentioned G4 to me at the San Jose Grand Prix. It shocked the hell out of me... but they said "yeah, we've seen this stuff on G4! We love it!!" this was from random fans trackside, not just the people who were hanging out at the Formula D area inside the building!

edit - i posted this before seeing FD's reply above. But they're pretty much saying the same thing

[Slapshotnerd]

well make sure g4tv talks to bellsouth cable

YOU have to do the talking!! Call up bellsouth and tell them what you want. In fact, call up and tell them that if htey don't start to carry G4, you WILL change your subscription package. Look into other providers in your area. Go with one that DOES carry G4, and let them know that the SPECIFIC REASON why you are switching is because of G4.

Cable networks don't read this message board. But they DO listen to their customers who are cancelling because they aren't carrying a specific channel.

[mav1178]

I know that tech inspections were much harsher in Chicago and Irwindale. Not sure what changed, but several drivers who had been driving in the first 4 events had to make changes to their equipment in order to run in both chicago and irwindale. They were even inspecting the NOMEX suits at irwindale! So that HAS changed...

Yeah it was much harder, in the sense that the drivers were teched and the seat belts were teched, but THAT WAS IT.

But that still does not take away from the fact that NO TECH INSPECTIONS WAS DONE AT SONOMA. I drove at Sonoma last year and even then, the actual tech inspection was so-so and not up to the standards of a professional series.

I have two friends that drove at Irwindale that told me this happened.

It seems like the actual tech rules (like the roll cage, etc) are bypassed as long as your racing suit is a-okay. It's okay for you to crash and burn, as long as you don't actually burn.

-alex

[z28evans]

We were teched several times this year, including having the roll cage inspected (including ultra-sonic wall thinkness measured). We were inspected at the first few events and found to have everything in order, and then it was just standard pit road inspections.

As far as G4 goes, i get it and like watching the drifting coverage, it has gotten better at each event. I've got my complaints on a few things, but overall i have a very good opinion of the show.

I've had non-drifting friends call me up when they saw my car on an fd promotion on G4.

The sport is growing like crazy

james

[drift7]

safty

getting teched and being safe...are also the team and the drivers resposability, if you didnt get teched or arn happy with something you should have done something about it.

When i hit the track I always know my safty equipment is up to date, proporly installed, and will protect me...as a driver i dont want to get hurt???
who cares if some tech guy says yea your good???

self preservation

[Modified-Rob]

Good job to FD

Well... let's consider what has been criticized...

- the tracks/venues
- the judges
- the announcer
- the TV coverage
- the music
- the girls

So, now that almost everything at the event, other than the drivers themselves, has been criticized let's consider:

Formula D has grown substantially since last year, and is obviously doing things RIGHT!

The tracks are the best they can get. It is in their own best interest (financial and otherwise) to get the best possible tracks, so obviously they are trying their best! Do you think they WANT to run in parking lots? Obviously not. But, they do what they have to do to make a great show.

The judges will always be criticized. This is natural in all sports with judges. The only improvement i could see would be putting each judge's score or winner beside their face on the jumbotron... not letting the judges talk it over, but making them all independent, and the jumbotron decides the winner! If its 2-2, then they run again.

The announcer - i like J-Rod and think he improved a lot from last year, and a lot from the first event. My suggestion is too add another voice just so that he has a bit of a break from time-to-time... like any good play-by-play sporting event. Like John Madden

TV Coverage has been great. An awesome job by G4 promoting the show online, in the mags, etc. NO OTHER NETWORK would have supported the show. Speed and Spike may run the show, but G4 is PROMOTING the show too. Kudos to G4 for stepping up and being a PARTNER in the growth of FD, rather than just throwing it on the air.

The music and girls... they attract attention. Its not like FD hires the models... the people buying booth space find it worthwhile to have them... obviously if it makes financial sense for them to hire models, then obviously the enthusiasts like them.

Anyways, in closing, a great job by FD. We can't wait for another season! BIGGER AND BETTER!!!

[bluegas]

...I think I heard of drifting mentioned on SPEED maybe once, and it was an afterthought... this is because it is just getting established and in time, as the series gains noteriety you will likely see it become more mainstream and on channels like SPEED/Fox/etc. I say just support it, get the word out and give it time to grow.

Well do you want big fish in little pond or little fish in big pond
"G4 is MTV in 1984" is like saying "the funniest movie of the year".
ITS A SAYING.
I personaly get the feeling someone already burned the SPEED and ESPN's of the world bridge i hope not. Speed covers alot of racing if the program was on Speed Channel they cover it more. the fact that you don't used SpeedTV production cameras while doing your demo runs at Road Tracks only proves my point about burning bridges(well maybe not). What scares me is the amount of coverage a racing background show gets on what is/was a video game ONLY TV channel. Sounds and looks too me that G4 is not happy with the Ratings they get from video game based shows (which has dorp BTW) and now are forced too find other ways too get/keep viewers. That said Formula D can be a fad for them too keep and hope bring in people who don't already like the channel as it is. Lets be honest Formula you shouldn;t have anyone kissing your azz if G4 does it it only shows how desperate they are for programming. If XBOX is a season long sponsor then have them help you push too be on after NOPI on speed in 07. or go get Playstation and do ESPN. OH and BTW if you have Xbox as a full sponor it also makes it easier now too go too FOXSPORTS. FUEL TV wouldn't be on the air if not for XBOX and other sponsors that do the Gravity Games(created so FOX/NBC have there own X-games against ESPN/ABC)
Formula D mess around and find D1 on a racing channel and formula D stuck on a netowrk still trying too fine themseleves while blowing smoke up your pipe too keep you (cheap) while you sitting there thinking its cool that they know you and kiss your azz...(talk too rock bands and rap groups about that game)

[swifty949]

Well do you want big fish in little pond or little fish in big pond
"G4 is MTV in 1984" is like saying "the funniest movie of the year".
ITS A SAYING.
I personaly get the feeling someone already burned the SPEED and ESPN's of the world bridge i hope not. Speed covers alot of racing if the program was on Speed Channel they cover it more. the fact that you don't used SpeedTV production cameras while doing your demo runs at Road Tracks only proves my point about burning bridges(well maybe not). What scares me is the amount of coverage a racing background show gets on what is/was a video game ONLY TV channel. Sounds and looks too me that G4 is not happy with the Ratings they get from video game based shows (which has dorp BTW) and now are forced too find other ways too get/keep viewers. That said Formula D can be a fad for them too keep and hope bring in people who don't already like the channel as it is. Lets be honest Formula you shouldn;t have anyone kissing your azz if G4 does it it only shows how desperate they are for programming. If XBOX is a season long sponsor then have them help you push too be on after NOPI on speed in 07. or go get Playstation and do ESPN. OH and BTW if you have Xbox as a full sponor it also makes it easier now too go too FOXSPORTS. FUEL TV wouldn't be on the air if not for XBOX and other sponsors that do the Gravity Games(created so FOX/NBC have there own X-games against ESPN/ABC)
Formula D mess around and find D1 on a racing channel and formula D stuck on a netowrk still trying too fine themseleves while blowing smoke up your pipe too keep you (cheap) while you sitting there thinking its cool that they know you and kiss your azz...(talk too rock bands and rap groups about that game)

You know thats like saying, your an idiot for not having a 6 figure paying job. One way or another Formula D wants to get drifting out there to the larger public, if SPEED is unwilling to work with them, & G4 is, well guess what...you work with what you've got.
So what you have said, is it your assumptions or is it fact? Assumptions are great ways to start false rumors.
Its business people, in business there are politics, and there are ways certain things are done. You cannot make a wish list, and have everything magically happen for you because you want it. Drifting as a whole, is still considered a grassroots sport. When corporations start paying big marketing money on Formula D thats when there are the funds and opportunity to do more of what you want. Formula D is smart, they are taking it slowly and expanding each year, they aren't jumping into the deep end of the pool without learning how to swim yet.

[Hollywood]

one thing I learned in the entertainment business is; people can love you one day hate you the next, and the other way around. its a hard business to burn bridges for good in for good. if there is money to be made, there are producers out there looking to buy and sell the idea. its just a matter of there being enough national popularity in the sport, for there to be national coverage of it.
has drifting reached that level of popularity yet?

[my 1 88 u]

well I just called bellsouth and they said they will not ad G4tv and that I am the first he has heard to inquire about g4tv in the 7 years he has been there. That sucks please move formula d to a bigger station.