Drift a Carrera?

[bowmanm98]

I have a 2000 Carrera and I've been racing it lately but I'm giving it up for a while. Since the rear end has extra grip because of the engine what's the best way to set it up for oversteer. When I try to power slide it just lifts the front end. What is the best method for me?

Also what changes can I make to set my car up better for drifting? I already have 19s and JIC coilovers. Right now I am thinking a super stiff rear sway bar will help.

MB

[Drift Brick]

the short answer is... you dont.


get something cheaper to learn on, even if its an older 911. that way if you smash it up, youre not out close to 50k.

just my opinion though...

[TokyoDrifterxo7]

theres a noob section, post in there. Nobody on this board drifts in a porsche so i dont think you will find answers here. Best bet is to get something more drift friendly ie. 240sx, rx7, AE86

[s13/350z]

your having trouble because its rear engine, your always going to have trouble if its rear engine. I would suggest something else to drift with. the weight in the rear will make it hard to control.

[TokyoDrifterxo7]

MR is harder to predict in a drift because more weight is in the back, it tends to snap back out of a drift.

[HasNoTiresLeft]

If i had a 2000 carrera i dont think i would be asking how to drift it on the internet... but i mean.. since it is the internet. How do i drift my Buggatti Veyron?? Do i need to tweak the flux capacitor???

[HoosierDrifter]

if you read the artical about "best production drift car" in speed magazine... ud know the rear engine porsche was able to produce the highest slip-angle. now i know that doesnt mean sh!t but im jus sayin

[AlexPfeiffer]

bowmanm98,
Dont take advice from people who have never driven a carrera. I've driven/drifted with many 911's, old and new and they are actually a lot of fun to drift with. Dont worry so much about trying to set it up for drifting untill you get some seat time in it as it is. The only thing I would suggest changing would be to get a bit more steering angle but thats not something you could go to a porsche shop and just ask for. I would also suggest putting on the stock wheels and tires cause they will be alot cheeper and easier to get then the 19's.

[master-s]

Picture I found



enjoy

[Hollywood]

I have a 99 996 carrera, I have never thrown it into a corner sideways, but I have drifted out of corners. you might start by trying that before throwing it sideways. also a front strut brace might halp a little.

having a carrera I might as well invite you out the the cannonball run we are having april 1st. www.cannonballforum.com

[FreeThinker]

Well first off, congrats on trying what might be one of the most capable drift cars to never be used!!!

The 911 can slide easily and they tend to slide smoothly when you get it right.

Not sure how much money you're working with but if you can afford it you should definitely get an older 911, like a 930 body and really learn the balance of the car. The newer cars run a little bit too wide rear tires just to give understeer which is a simple warning everyone understands to slow down.

A nice 930 on OEM old school 15's with some 205's in front and 215's in back should be a good starting point. Stock suspension, maybe stiffer rear swaybar.

The car is short in wheelbase but since its rear engine, (not MR as someone said) it won't be super snappy. A car rotates around an axis near the center of the vehicle and if a cars weight is mostly on the axis it will change direction quickly (ala F1, Indy car and most supercars).

The amount of weight and it's relation to the axis is known as the 'polar moment of inertia'.

For an example, imagine a hand barbell with 10lbs on each end, & 5lb bar, and your hand rotating it back and forth, then imagine the 10lb weights were moved to the middle of the bar and you grasped them and rotate back and forth again. Same 25lbs, yet it is easier to change the motion of the mass. This is because in linear terms you are moving the weights further when they are on the ends of the bar then when they are in the middle. So it requires more work.


In a car that is in a state of oversteer, the body tends to rotate around an axis closer to the front axle, meaning you would want the weight near that axis in order to be able to change the cars direction quickly.


Since the 911's engine is all the way in back though it has more leverage on the rear tires so it will swing out easier on its own, it will just be your challenge to keep tabs on the back end. The back end wants to outrun the front. The key is when you get it sideways, the weight back there wants to keep going (inertia) so you have to throw it out there kinda gently and quickly find the balance point. But the car isnt as snappy as an MR2, it just wants to swap ends more. The hardest part of really drifting a 911, just like most cars, will be the transfers. I wouldnt try taking the car from a full lock slide, and switching it into the next curve. You should try to power out of the slide, straitening the car to a modest angle, and then switching into the next turn, and powering back into it for angle.

The more you practice you more you will find the real potential for these cars and it's a lot more than most think. As for my experience, I learned how to drive manual in my dad's project 1981 911SC and later that's the car that I learned how to drive fast in. Never got it sideways, but the old man could keep a nice slide going no problem.

Something else to consider when trying to do a 911 is to remove any unneccesary items from the rear of the car, and try to lighten the rear end as much as possible; carbon, lexan, maybe reroute exhaust to side exit ahead of the rear tires, get electric power steering in the bonnet, AC compresor gone, electric waterpump in front (not applicable to the air-cooleds ) seriously EVERYTHING out of the rear end except the engine.

That will help a lot, but just try it as-is first.


PS try to find some Porsche rally footage for some good sliding from the Stuttgart camp

[CrazyHawaiian]

To the original poster, have you tried different settings on your coilovers? I dont know what they allow you to adjust but I'm sure some experimentation there is worthwhile. Changing the swaybars is also another way to play with the tune of the car. But seeing how well Porsche cars are built I would leave the stock sways (which are probably balanced well) and just adjust the coilovers. But to get down to it I think your problem is tires. Tire selection is key. I would second what Alex and Sean said and experiment with some cheaper stock wheels or something to find the tire widths that work well for you. Every car is different and the way to find the best setup for you is to experiment with different sizes. It dosnt need to be flasy or anything, just some experimentation. Then when you find the tire sizes that slide good for you, get comparable sizes for your good 19" wheels and go for it.

[J-Rod]

I have a 99 996 carrera, I have never thrown it into a corner sideways, but I have drifted out of corners. you might start by trying that before throwing it sideways. also a front strut brace might halp a little.

having a carrera I might as well invite you out the the cannonball run we are having april 1st. www.cannonballforum.com

Good advice for the drifter yet.

Question, why would you have images from anothe rally such as GUMBALL 3000 on your website?

Just asking.

[Hollywood]

Good advice for the drifter yet.

Question, why would you have images from anothe rally such as GUMBALL 3000 on your website?

Just asking.

several of the guys have done the gumball 3000, and I suppose the web guy thought it looked cool, lol

[bowmanm98]

Well first off, congrats on trying what might be one of the most capable drift cars to never be used!!!

The 911 can slide easily and they tend to slide smoothly when you get it right.

Not sure how much money you're working with but if you can afford it you should definitely get an older 911, like a 930 body and really learn the balance of the car. The newer cars run a little bit too wide rear tires just to give understeer which is a simple warning everyone understands to slow down.

A nice 930 on OEM old school 15's with some 205's in front and 215's in back should be a good starting point. Stock suspension, maybe stiffer rear swaybar.

The car is short in wheelbase but since its rear engine, (not MR as someone said) it won't be super snappy. A car rotates around an axis near the center of the vehicle and if a cars weight is mostly on the axis it will change direction quickly (ala F1, Indy car and most supercars).

The amount of weight and it's relation to the axis is known as the 'polar moment of inertia'.

For an example, imagine a hand barbell with 10lbs on each end, & 5lb bar, and your hand rotating it back and forth, then imagine the 10lb weights were moved to the middle of the bar and you grasped them and rotate back and forth again. Same 25lbs, yet it is easier to change the motion of the mass. This is because in linear terms you are moving the weights further when they are on the ends of the bar then when they are in the middle. So it requires more work.


In a car that is in a state of oversteer, the body tends to rotate around an axis closer to the front axle, meaning you would want the weight near that axis in order to be able to change the cars direction quickly.


Since the 911's engine is all the way in back though it has more leverage on the rear tires so it will swing out easier on its own, it will just be your challenge to keep tabs on the back end. The back end wants to outrun the front. The key is when you get it sideways, the weight back there wants to keep going (inertia) so you have to throw it out there kinda gently and quickly find the balance point. But the car isnt as snappy as an MR2, it just wants to swap ends more. The hardest part of really drifting a 911, just like most cars, will be the transfers. I wouldnt try taking the car from a full lock slide, and switching it into the next curve. You should try to power out of the slide, straitening the car to a modest angle, and then switching into the next turn, and powering back into it for angle.

The more you practice you more you will find the real potential for these cars and it's a lot more than most think. As for my experience, I learned how to drive manual in my dad's project 1981 911SC and later that's the car that I learned how to drive fast in. Never got it sideways, but the old man could keep a nice slide going no problem.

Something else to consider when trying to do a 911 is to remove any unneccesary items from the rear of the car, and try to lighten the rear end as much as possible; carbon, lexan, maybe reroute exhaust to side exit ahead of the rear tires, get electric power steering in the bonnet, AC compresor gone, electric waterpump in front (not applicable to the air-cooleds ) seriously EVERYTHING out of the rear end except the engine.

That will help a lot, but just try it as-is first.

-Sean

PS try to find some Porsche rally footage for some good sliding from the Stuttgart camp

Thanks for that, it really helps out. Here is some footage for you, mine has about 80 less hp but you can see it looks fun.

What is the best way to get the drift started in the 911? Ebrake? Feint?

Here is some footage for you

http://videos.streetfire.net/Player....1936&kw=27&p=1