Rhys Millen Partnership with Pontiac

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by CrazyHawaiian
I cant believe you guys are comparing the GTO to a Cavalier. *slapping my head* The GTO is powered by a LS1 (same as Camaros, Firebirds, and Vettes), has a 6 speed T56 option (same as Camaros, Firebirds, Vettes and even Vipers, but different gears and syncros), and is RWD. The Cavalier is small displacement FWD sport compact. What are you guys smoking?

There is a single turbo kit out for LS1's right now that puts down over 700 rwhp on the STOCK LS1 MOTOR. Not that 700 rwhp makes the car drift any better, but do you see any Cavalier's doing that?! NOPE!

The key for the GTO will be suspension and weight balance. And since they are being backed by GM, you can pretty much guarantee these things will be addressed. Look how much R&D went into the C5-R ....

Well yeah obviously its not a cavilar by any means. However i am abit dissapointed in the GTO. First of all pontiac is billing it as the "return of the muscle car" and while yes it has a decent sized engine.. but it is the LS1... a fine motor but common 2 valves per cylender? okay so maybe a muscle car isnt about technology.. though in the 60s they were pushing the edge of performance in these cars.. i just figured they should do the same again.

But okay a muscle car is all about straight line.. and sence this is the return of the muscle car, i was kindof excepting alot more then what it did. and for alot cheaper.. Well obviously your a GM fan, i wonder how you feel about its price/performance I mean its like 33k.. which puts it in the same field as the new STI and the EVO, actualy the evo is abit cheaper, MSRP anyways. But the EVO runs better quarter mile times.. and handles much much better... i think i saw .81 G on the skidpad for the GTO, ill try to remember where i saw these numbers at, and a 83 MPH in the slalom run.. the EVO is closer to .95 and 71+ mph...

And though you and i would both argue its a muscle car handling isnt really its thing, And if it ran faster quarter mile times then the EVO, let alone the STI i could understand that. but it doesnt. and the thing is heavy like 3700+

I dont know man, i was really dissapointed, if the car cost 25k or something maybe it would be another story, then its only competting with the WRX and the base model rx-8 and 350z..

Anyways i was dissapointed and im not even a big GM fan. But i'd love to hear what you think about it thing crazyhawaii. i mentioned earlier i like your post.

Now all that said this doesnt mean i dont think it can be a competitive drift vehichle, take care of its weight and keep it balanced and its got plenty of torque and a rear wheel drive setup.

[CrazyHawaiian]

The LS1 engine is the newest technology. You talk about the LS1 like it sucks or something. LS1's kick *Censored**Censored**Censored*, plain and simple. Do some research if you doubt me. The LS1 (or generation 3 small block chevy) is the platform that all new model high power Chevys and Pontiacs use. The LS6 found in the Corvette Z06 is based off the LS1. But in all honesty, my argument is not even about what the stock stuff on the GTO is capable of. Since he is backed by GM there is a very high probability that the car will be modified. Are any other cars in the Formula D series stock? Heck no, so why would anyone think the GTO will be stock? I'll bet you $5 that the car will be decked. The GTO chassis is only new in America, its been used in Australia for quite some time, marketed as a Holden which is also tied in with GM. I know GM knows what to do to make this car competitive. Divisions of GM have already had racing experience with this car.

[Feint]

When I said "pushing it" regarding the SRT-4.I was talking about the amount of horsepower that is being squeezed out of the block and being put to the wheels.For a FWD car it is impressive,and to say its performance sucks would be a lie.There are more things than drifting that make a car,it doesn't need to be able to drift to perform well in other important area's ie skidpad.

[zdss14]

about the car looking like a cavaler, in january 2004 road and track they were already showing the next generation concepts for the gto it looks a whole lot better, and more like the origanal

[prodigy]

Originally posted by zdss14
about the car looking like a cavaler, in january 2004 road and track they were already showing the next generation concepts for the gto it looks a whole lot better, and more like the origanal

I am glad to hear that. At the North American International Auto Show many people were disgusted with its looks.

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by CrazyHawaiian
The LS1 engine is the newest technology. You talk about the LS1 like it sucks or something. LS1's kick *Censored**Censored**Censored*, plain and simple. Do some research if you doubt me.

no no no i didnt mean to make it sound like it sucked. It just feels strange that technology that was standard in base model toyotas in the 80s isnt standard in a 33k perfromance car.


And yeah i doubt it will be a stock vehichle, i guess i was trying to change the subject to what do you think about the stock vehichle.

Im they can pull it of they have alot of resources and money availible.

[endosteel]

The GTO isn't the balls to the wall performance car that the EVO is. It's performance and luxury in one package like a BMW or a G35.

That said, it should be one hell of a car when modified for competition. It doesn't weigh that more more than a Skyline GTR stock. The LS1 and LS6 engines love to rev over 6K and with aftermarket modifications they could easily go over 7K with smooth power throughout the whole range.

I think this was a great move by Pontiac.

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by endosteel
It doesn't weigh that more more than a Skyline GTR stock.

According to the "skyline register" http://www.gtr.co.uk

The R32 skyline GTR weighs 3,256 LBS. Which isnt bad consider its All wheel drive. this is the lightest of the GTRs

And the R34 GTR Vspec II, the heaviest of them weighs, 3,432 lbs.

I went to pontiac's website to get the GTO's weight from them, but the only specification they seem to lack is curb weight. I read on one website, though it didnt seem like the most offical website in the world it was over 3800lbs
Thats a huge difference. Even to the R34. thats alot of extra weight and alot of weight in general. Now i want to get an offical number for the GTO, anyone have one in a magazine or something?

[endosteel]

Curb weight on the GTO is just over 3700 lbs. with the manual. Now I know that's not light, but anyone on this board would kill for an R34 so I don't see why a car weighing maybe 8% more is being considered "too heavy".

[nissanguy_24]

The R34 is too heavy.. the GTO is heavier.

several hundreds pounds is alot of weight when were talking performance cars.. Perhaps weight for a "muscle car" is less of a concerned, but for a muscle car the GTO is being whooped by 2 liter factory cars that MSRP for similar cost.

Common Pontiac could do better then that with that big of an engine..

[endosteel]

I already said that the EVO can kick the GTO's *Censored**Censored**Censored* in performance numbers. So can the STi. That's not the point. The GTO is not a pure performance car, it's performance with comfort. That's why the GTO has a nicer interior than the EVO or STi. That why the GTO has all season tires while the EVO and STi wear summer-only rubber. That's why the GTO's suspension is more comfortable than the EVO's or STi's.

And I don't see why it matters that the GTO's LS1 uses older technology or makes less HP per liter, as long as it gets the job done. The LS1 is reliable and provides ample power throughout the rev range. The EVO's 2 liter is an amazing engine, but the LS1 is already making 300 lb-ft of torque at 1200 RPM and doesn't drop below that until well past 5K. It's got power everywhere, in every gear.

I agree the GTO could be better but let's not compare apples to oranges here. Compare the GTO to a G35 or a 330 instead.

I'm looking forward to what Pontiac will do with the racecar since daily-driver comfort is no longer an issue.

[nissanguy_24]

I'd say more on the subject but i fear were hijacking the thread. Perhaps we can start a new thread on this...

[Nismo_r34]

A GTO huh. He could have ride the supra instead.

[endosteel]

On the official D1 site it said Millen's GTO will have about 400 horsepower. Sounds like they upgraded to an LS6.

[REVLIMIT]

More then likely thats what they did...and its a good choice if they did. Considering the LS6 has a nice power curve and unlike all the other cars that will be in the competition power everywhere O_o