D1GP DIRECTOR QUITs.....

[Slapshotnerd]

1st, when I speak of drag racing, I think the people in "our" industry only think of sport compact/import drag racing. There are several other forms of drag racing that do extremely well. How about Funny Car and Top Fuel, just to name 2. I watch those all of the time and the turn out is amazing.

Top fuel teams have a per-race budget that sport compact teams have for an entire year. They also have a lot more TV time (live TV, at that) and about 10-20x as many fans. Formula D / drifting and sport compact racing are similar demographics (younger GenX / GenY fans, etc) and have been around for similar periods of time (drifting for the past 5 years, sport compact / import drag racing for around 10 years, NHRA has been around for 50 years.) Most NHRA fans are 2nd or 3rd generation NHRA fans and 'grew up' around it. That's not possible yet for import drag racing / drifting fans.

2ndly, We haven't gotten paid for 1 single demo.......
Dan and I came out of pocket for everything we did this year. We recieved money from NO ONE!

That's something I believe you should have negotiated differently in your contract then. I have knowledge of drivers getting paid for certain demos (won't get more specific, but i know it has happened for multiple different drivers at multiple different events) because organizers A) know that drifting has more pull than some of their other 'lifestyle' events, B) know that 'employees' at events should get paid - if you're not competing in a competition, then you were hired specifically to do a job (in this case, drifting) and should be compensated appropriately. If you spend X hours at an event hired by the promotor for Y purpose, then you need to be given Z dollars.

In the end, I just want to drive!

I just want to take pictures and write articles for magazines. But my skill can't be achieved by the average person off the street - i have a lot of time invested in perfecting my skills, and I have a lot of money invested in my equipment. Therefore, when I write or shoot photos, I ask for compensation. There are certain times when a 'trade out' might be appropriate, but those are the exception, not the rule.

The concern about whether or not the new series will be "about the drivers" is understandable. I'm hoping to help make sure that it turns out that way. I AM A DRIVER. THAT'S WHERE MY INTEREST LIE....WITH THE DRIVERS. I thik that's one of the reasons our series has been very sucessful. We kept it about the drivers and not about getting rich. I listen to everythig they say and I feel them, because I am one of them.

There was another series which was 'attempted' which was started 'by a driver, for the drivers'. it was called World Drifting Championships. They had a large corporate backing as well (Primedia, several other sponsors). They failed, for more reasons than once, but saying you're 'for the drivers' isn't much. Jim and Ryan have made Formula D very much about the drivers. More than D1 has been about the drivers (D1 is about selling the DVD's, there's no denying that). So you still haven't given me a reason to support another series.

I WOULD BE HAPPY IF FD DECIDED TO DO AN EAST COAST SERIES. I DON'T CARE WHO DOES IT! I JUST WANT US TO BE ABLE DRIVE ON A COMPETITIVE LEVEL OVER HERE!

I think i have a solution for you, i started a new thread. What if Chicago / Atlanta / NJ had a 'semi pro' level which had a regional championship? you still drive in front of the same FD crowd of 8k or so per event, you are just in a seperate 'division' from Rhys / Sam. Would that work for you? That way, the same promotional dollars can go towards one event instead of 2. You get the same if not more exposure as if there were 2 completely seperate drifting 'circuits'. Just a thought...

[quote]I want myself and others like me to be able to enjoy and progress in drifting. I don't think that's too much to ask. [quote]
I think that the east coast has just as many if not more events for the amateur up-and-coming drifter to be able to progress and even compete in tandem than the west coast does. Outside of California, there isn't much available, especially for tandem. The east coast has more access to events than they realize.

The same type of thing happened when we started our series here in Atlanta. Some people thought there wasn't enough driver interest to have two amateur/practice series. WEll the fact is, both of them are doing fine and are prospering.

The difference is that Atlanta is much smaller than many other cities. I think atlanta has as many if not more local competitions than LA does. Just drift has been having more competitions lately, but the schedule in atlanta was just as rigorous as the greater LA area, and that's a HUGE accomplishment. But the same can't be said about other areas around the US - Chicago, Seattle, Texas, FL, St Louis, etc. You've been to these cities, you know that there are FAR fewer competitions in these areas than there are in Atlanta. There IS opportunity for events in these smaller markets, but they should be focused on attracting 20-30 drivers and helping them develop their skills, not getting 50 'pro' drivers and 5,000 spectators there to have a series to rival Formula D. There's a huge difference in marketing in these 2 approaches, and IF NOPI or any other event promotor does decide to grow a second series, I think it should marketed on this level, not as a rival to FD.

there are more sponsorship dollars out there then you think. therefore, if another series were started that was more east coast based, more AM drivers that are really good but just can't get out to a west coast FD qualifier can go compete, get an out side of motorsports sponsor and move up to FD or even D1.

Think about it. 43+ teams in Nascar, only 43 can run in a race. Each of those teams spends over 3 million alone in tires each season. The money is out there. The drift teams just have to figure out how to get it. If doing two "Pro" series that equals out to say 12 events for the year will help spread that sponsors name, they (the sponsors) will spend the money to sponsor that driver or team.

Not in this market. Nascar has 200k fans per race and millions of fans per TV airing (which is 3 hours long). FD has less than 10% of that in attendance and per TV airing. Therefore, less impressions, less return on investment, etc. Let's face it - Tide / Frosted Flakes / Viagra aren't sponsoring drifting, and those sponsors aren't coming anytime soon because the exposure just isn't there. Therefore, the market must grow slowly, as the sponsors do. I would venture to say that the budget of 1 nascar team could fund the top 10 drifting teams for the entire season, possibly even the top 20 or 25 teams (including building the cars from scratch). Apples to oranges.



*these are my thoughts through page 3. I'm going to work on page 4 and 5 later tonight I have a feeling that many of these thoughts have been echoed already*

[Formula D]

Tracy, if you say you are having issues getting someone over hear to listen to you, you can contact myself or Jim directly. Our contacts are listed on our website.

[Tracy]

http://www.drifting.com/forums/showt...d=1#post193628

I moved over here. Sorry for getting off topic guys

[Tracy]

Tracy, I'll tell you this, there is such fundamental resistance against spending money amongst the track promoters I know of in Ohio alone that it's hard for new organizations of any kind to break into a new circuit.

Drifting, in particular, has to buck the negative press that the import scene garners because of the ancillary activity at NOPI and Hot Import Nights events. Track owners don't want anything that would tarnish the "family friendly" reputation of the local oval. The fellows of Outbrake over at Kilkare Speedway in Xenia, Ohio, have done well to show that amateur drifting won't harm a track, but now it has to be shown that drifting can benefit a track too.

If we follow Wall Stadium's example, coupled with a family friendly atmosphere, we can really make something happen in Ohio.

All I can say is this, it's going to take someone with a good relationship with the tracks or at least a good business plan and some money to make some of the tracks let us drift. It's going to happen. It already is. I don't know how it will turn out and I can't vouch for that. All I can do it hope that it turns out good...just like everyone else that is for it overhere. I'm a no one as far as any of that goes. I'm just trying to be an ambassador for the poeple that I know deserve to drive on a pro level. If Formula D wants to step in and do it...by all means, I'm there.


On another note. I have some questions. Why were certain drivers given provisionals? Why were we not? Why was Andy Sapp not? What is the criteria to prove yourself for a provisional? That's a bit confusing to me.

Also, why when I approached certain FD associates about helping with a qualifier in the South East on MY BUDGET and MY INSURANCE was I ignored. What is the criteria for that? My grassroots events are the only one in the country so far without a cancellation this season. We also have more spectator attendance than any other organization in the country besides FD. We had 2500 paying spectators at our very first event! Now that I think of it, we also have recieved the most coverage mag wise. We were featured in Import Performance (new name for Import Racer) Magazine in the March 2006 issue. We also had a 5 page feature in drifting mag in the August 2006 issue. What more could you ask for?

[Tracy]

I wasnt there to watch so I can't say for sure, but maybe he was just better? If those judges were politcally motivated tino, and verena with their big sponsorships would have licenses now. They are from california too...

and if your local events were cancelled, take it up with us drift or whoever was organizing it, YOU should take that initiative since you have the biggest issue with it, and apparantly have your own series.

You are saying this assuming that I haven't also assuming that I have the biggest issue with it. I represent a lot of South East driver with the things I say....I know this because I HAVE A SERIES and I make damn sure that I try to do my best to listen to their grievences. I know damn full and well that you can't make everyone happy all of the time, but as you must have read, John said we are not the only ones with these concerns. Maybe just the only ones willing to voice it. We have very little to lose you see. We stand very little chance at this point of getting a FD license...becuase it is not accessible for us. The only way I see for us to have a chance at getting one is to state my concerns and hope that someone reading is willing to address them.

Quok (SP?) was an awesome driver, but I think there was more than just him and there should be more than one opportunity to get your license. That was the reson for the "everyone has a bad day" reply. Everyone is not on their game everyday...pro or otheriwse. I was definately not ready for my license that day and definately did not deserve it. It was my very first day in my brand new car. I am, however, ready now and was ready for the 3 events that were cancelled in my area. There have been numerous opportunities for the West Caost driver to recieve their license. Why were we given only 1?

[Tracy]

Then can NDRA (NOPI drag racing series) with even more money and more TV. At the same time Battle of the Imports began to hold more national events; which would bring the tally to 4 national import drag racing series! It became, which series had more money and import drag racing got watered down. And the people that suffered the most from this were the fans. A drag racing fan would attend an event hoping to see their favorite driver, Steph Papadakis or Ed Bergonholtz or Craig Paisley, but sometimes they were there and sometimes they were not. Why? Because some were at an NDRA event and some at an NHRA event. And rarely would you see a full line up of all the drag racing stars.

I think a way to stop the "watering down of the sport" is.....

Not to fight with other organizations over dates and locations. If you are truly in it for the sport that you should be able to do this. Down here in Atlanta, we don't do events at the same time other local events. We actually for the most part don't even get along, but we have enough respect to move our date if we see another event going on that may conflict....and we have 3 seperate drifting org's here in atlanta. Getting along stops the fight over locations and dates 9 (locations should not be an issue if everyone agrees to stay on their side of the Mississippi ) That's what "waters" down the sport. What if you live in Florida and Steph will be at an NDRA event this weekend and he can be at an NDRA event the next. If the NDRA and the NHRA didn't hate each other so much and fight over dates....you would be able to see steph whenever you wanted. Unfortunately there is drama with everything on every level....pissing matches to see who is the almighty and who has the upper hand (prolly cuz we need less testosterone things ). So we will never be able to have our cake and eat it, too. That's called life, I guess.

[Octagon]

Tracy, I'll tell you this, there is such fundamental resistance against spending money amongst the track promoters I know of in Ohio alone that it's hard for new organizations of any kind to break into a new circuit.

Drifting, in particular, has to buck the negative press that the import scene garners because of the ancillary activity at NOPI and Hot Import Nights events. Track owners don't want anything that would tarnish the "family friendly" reputation of the local oval. The fellows of Outbrake over at Kilkare Speedway in Xenia, Ohio, have done well to show that amateur drifting won't harm a track, but now it has to be shown that drifting can benefit a track too.

If we follow Wall Stadium's example, coupled with a family friendly atmosphere, we can really make something happen in Ohio.

[hatebbobbarker]

I was in Houston still not that close. Where were the drivers searches in my neck of the woods? I must have missed that.

Not every day is a good day...for anyone. Not to mention the 1 person who got their license in Houston came on the trailer with the judges. Ironic.

I wasnt there to watch so I can't say for sure, but maybe he was just better? If those judges were politcally motivated tino, and verena with their big sponsorships would have licenses now. They are from california too...

and if your local events were cancelled, take it up with us drift or whoever was organizing it, YOU should take that initiative since you have the biggest issue with it, and apparantly have your own series.

[Tracy]

Well I was afraid to speak my mind (and those who know me, know thisis not typical of me ) because I thought I may be the only one feeling this way. Glad to see I'm not...sorry I left out the northeast and the rest of the people besides the west with my comments.

I'm not sure why it would be our job to find venues for Formula D. I mean, you have scooped up all of the little organizations besides mine, this should be pretty easy for ya'll. There are plenty of places if the time is taken to look. I think that if the "split" is such a concern to FD, then they should put the foot forward to find some venues (there is obviosuly a want for it from the rest of us who don't reside on the West Coast) If they don't want to...then leave it up to the people who are willing to make it happen. I have enough going on with trying to figure out how I am going to make my business work without having to worry about FD's. I've been to Soldiger field and it's not that big of a venue. In all reality the parking lot of AMS could be a potential venue based on the event I went to at Soldiger Field. There are plenty other places the size of Soldiger field on the East Coast that will work with a lot of money backing and some effort.


John,

Dan and I respect you greatly and we belive that you have the best intentions for us as drivers. That's why we call you and not FD You are approachable and you treat us with respect. I'm pretty sure that most of this is out of your hands, but I will always do my best to be there for you....John Yim, if it is within my means.


I welcome another series for now. I don't see how it could hurt. Maybe people are afraid that they have a tight grip with the way things are now. In all reality, there is a monoploly going on and that is UnAmerican. There is no checks and balances for the sport. I mean what makes a person a "pro driver" right now? A Formula D license? Something that was just made up out of thin air? So, it wasn't with in my means to make it to the spotty, mostly announced at the last minute, often cancelled qualifiers...................watch me every Tuesday night on the Speed Channel and tell me if I'm a pro driver or not.

[Octagon]

Jim, honestly, I can get you in touch with Chris Mize and Mike Dzurilla over at Mansfield Motorsports Speedway in Mansfield, Ohio. They host the Craftsman Truck Series event here in Ohio (which sells out every year) and it's a 100% state-of-the-art 1/2 mile oval facility with central pit lane and a 1/4mile figure eight oval in the track center.

It's actually part and parcel of the whole MSA/Formula Drift co-op deal, or (depending on how the political scene in the MSA goes after our new president is elected) the deal might be brokered with the larger ISMA circuit.

[s13vert]

Need more East Coast presence. Understood and agreed. Anyone have any suggestions on an East Coast venue that can fit the Formula D circus?

Orlando speedworld or if u can convince those morons at Moroso to use the road course LOL

[s13vert]

Thank u tracy we need some love here in the east and southeast(we're not all backwards u know) honestly its discouraging to be in the east coast and have two major events a year all. Even though there are alot of small companies holding events(shiftlock here in FL), we'll need some help over here mainly in recognition and events I know its hard for drifters to come all the way over here but there is plenty of good talent out here. This goes back to the whole FD licensce thing and travel along with the pro-am finals it all feels like unintentional disrespect...even thought it makes more business sense to hold it closer to the west it has lead to most of the finalists(from the east coast) from what i can tell to not be able to make the comp. Its kind of a NASCAR situation...drifting is based around Cali and the west while there is alot of interest not being meet by an open audience here on the east, and it will take a few more years for that audience to be meet we just have to wait and those of us who care will still want to be a part of that when it comes....so jim how about an event here in FL?????? LOL sorry if it was confusing but i have alot of opions and this was my bad attempt at putting them 2gether

-John Breslin

[John Yim]

John, none of this is directed toward you.

Ahh, but it is directed towards me because I was part of all the changes that were made. But that's alright because your concerns and issues are shared by many so I want to address them and make this series accessible to everyone.

So if i understand correctly the rules have changed yet again to accomodate the west coast drivers. Initially, the proam finals were going to be held in Ohio on September 18th along with the NASA road racing events going on. The top drivers from this event in Ohio were supposed to get there Formula D licences. lol, why didnt they get their licences? I would like for somoeone to explain to everyone what happened in Ohio? So now instead of the Ohio winners becoming Formula D drivers they are just "regional champions"? This just forces them to spend more money after being led to believe that they would become Formula D drivers.

Here's what happened: The Ohio timeslot was going to be 3 hours per day over the course of the weekend since it was going to be held in conjunction with a NASA road race. We felt that was not enough time to hold practice and qualifying so we looked for another venue. We investigated the possibility of asking the SCCA national office to hold an event in Topeka, KS but then the city of Laughlin approached us and asked us to hold an event in their city during their motorsports festival. They would provide the venue, discount hotels and other amenities at no charge if we brought our event there. Since we had no financial support (sponsors) at the time we decided to jump on that opportunity which is the reason why the finals ended up in Laughlin.

What will happen in Nevada on November 11th? I have a theory, WEST COAST DRIVERS WILL BE AWARDED THERE LICENCES. Boy am I glad I didnt waste my time going to the east coast regional events just to lead up to no Formula D licences being given away at the Ohio event. Now the proam series is forcing people to travel to the west coast again for the "chance" to get their license. Give me a break, how much money do you want unsponsored people to spend to get a licence that will most likely be given to a west coast driver? I think that Formula D and the proam should just concentrate on giving licences to people that can actually make it to formula d events, that would help out their driver attendance. lol, wait, that is what they are doing.

This all falls back the last minute nature of the ProAm organzation. It's unfortunate and we hope to have things more streamlined next year but we are going to have to work with what we are given this year. Its very possible that west coast drivers will obtain their license but at the same time its very possible for a driver from any other region to obtain a license too. It just depends on how much money I get paid since I'm a judge. I'M KIDDING! Seriously, we're trying to make it as fair as possible but its very difficult with what we have been given to work with. Just know that things are being discussed to make next year better.

So in a nutshell the major flaw with the proam series is as follows: The proam is forcing competitors to travel in their region to compete for a regional chapmionship. Competitors can't get sponsors because there will be no exposure in the regional events, regional championships or the national championships, for that matter. So yet again, formula d and the proam are forcing the amateur competitors to spend more money for hopes and dreams. By the time an amateur competitor actually gets their licence they will be broke. After winning a regional championship the competiors who are in the 3 other regions, other than the west region, will have to travel to the other side of the country for $0.15 cents a mile. By the way, thats not really any money at all. It seems that Formula D and the pro am are just throwing everyone a bone to keep them happy. The unfortunate thing is that there are good drivers all around the country that sponsors would love to help out but the proam will not expose these drivers. For the sport to grow there has to be new talent developed, formula d and the proam are not helping the sport develop new drivers. The proam is set up to develop rich drivers, not skilled drivers. The concept of the proam series was a great thought when it originally came about but I am not sure what has happened since then. From cancelling almost every event and changing the rules all along the way I dont beleive that it is a good idea anymore. I love to drift but with the money I put into the proam series for traveling, maitenence, etc I could just rent tracks and have private practice days for me and my friends all year long. Sponsors are not stupid and will not support drivers financially based on the proam series alone. The proam and formula d are taking the fun out of the sport and are doing nothing for the competitors once again. Unfortunatelly for them there will be other competitions to attend next year.

All of your concerns are valid and, trust me, you haven't said anything that hasn't been discussed in our weekly conference calls. We're working on getting media exposure, helping with travel expenses, anything that we can do to help the 'little guy'. In fact, I would personally like to see the finals end up being free to the regional invitees. Not only in entry fee but also travel, accomodations and other expenses. Of course that won't happen this, next or maybe even the next year but that is a goal and US Drift Association will work towards making that happen one day.

Dan typing from Tracy's account

Hi Dan and Tracy!

Anyway, Dan and I already spoke on the phone and I hope I answered his concerns and questions but I wanted to post this anyway for anyone else who might have wondered the same things Dan was. So please, if you have anything you want to ask just ask!

John

EDIT:

I also want to apologize for taking this thread off course. I will start a new thread 'Ask US Drift Association/ProAm Something!' to address any questions that may be had for us.

[Jim @ FD]

I don't think anyone thinks that anyone is getting rich off of this I, myself own an amateur series. I feel ya and I know all about the paychecks. This isn't really about whether or not you are getting rich anyways. It's about HOW CAN WE, ON THE EAST COAST, DRIVE PROFESSIONALLY??!!

If your concerns are splitting up the professional circuit of drifting....then make things more accessable for the East Coast that's all I'm screaming! 3 of the East Coast pro am events were cancelled here. The only one that came through was the same day as the NOPI Nationals. POOR PLANNING. PERIOD!

Need more East Coast presence. Understood and agreed. Anyone have any suggestions on an East Coast venue that can fit the Formula D circus?

[Tracy]

actually this is about Hidoe no longer being with D1, sorry it has taken another route.