FORMULA D Rule Changes...

[Brian]

Lots of people never liked drifting. You really think this thread will make people either go or not go to a local event ?

Sean,
A local event is not what I'm talking about.
I'm speaking about the "pro" series.
From my experience, more and more people are getting tired of it (the series) and just simply don't want to go anymore.

[tyndago]

y. I invite you to talk to Kevin Wells about any questionable mods, he's gone Not only is it not the most modified car in FD, its also not even the most modified 350Z.

I know Kevin. Kevin knows me. I know the guy that did the modifications to the rear suspension on Chris's car. As I said before, lets not pretend I am just some fan in the corner complaining to complain. I know even exactly how much it was moved. I also know that his is not the most modified of the 350Z's.

Consistency. Consistency. Consistency.

Lets not try and push the new kid around too much. He might have a lot of friends.

[tyndago]

Sean,
A local event is not what I'm talking about.
I'm speaking about the "pro" series.
From my experience, more and more people are getting tired of it (the series) and just simply don't want to go anymore.

By "local event" I mean Formula D locally to a person. Not a small non professional "local event".

I guess it gets down to the purists, and then the spectators. The purists may not like the series, its ok, they are out on GMR crossing the centerline. Its Formula Drifts job to replace those people with people that are just coming out to spectate. They still manage to pull quiet a few people at events. I have been around the country to Formula Drift events. Its a fun time. I still enjoy drifting. That is why I care about what is happening with what seems like bias in the series.

People do lose interest in things. Money becomes a big part of it. Most people don't have the money to get into the series, that is one reason that people move on. Its human nature. I am not surprised that people move on. Just look at other entertainment. Movies, Music.... This week, Katy Perry is the top of the Top 100 charts, next week she probably will not be. People do move on. Next week someone else will be on the top of the charts, and people will have moved on.

So how do you keep everyone happy ? The spectators, the drivers,the teams, the sponsors ? You don't. You can never keep everyone happy. You have to do your best to not show biases. You have to show constancies to the drivers and teams.

[_PG_]

How many times do I have to say, nothing has been "cut" at all. All the parts used can be ordered from Nissan and fit any "34 chassis" (C34/R34/W34) WITHOUT CUTTING If it was held on by bolts, it would be "bolt on" but this is "weld on." It fits as is because it's for the same chassis.

But how do you removed welded on wheel tubs without cutting them off?

I didn't say it made the car better, I said it doesn't give it any sort of unfair performance advantage....and it doesn't...hell, the majority of the cars in the series are running struts.

The double arm setup is more prone to bend under the stress of drifting, we're running a single car based out of Japan, we built the car to last and be put back together easily. Our car probably has the least fabwork put into out of all the cars in the top 10. (cept possibly Hampshaa)

That's horse crap man. Suspensions don't bend from the forces of drifting. They bend if you crash. Macpherson struts give you an advantage cause they will allow so much more un-impeded angle. That's what is actually fair about FD. If you are using more expensive "newer" cars, you have to deal with their new fangled suspension design. And older "cheaper" cars that use Macpherson strut have an "advantage" that will allow them to be more competitive with the newer cars. Cause lets face it... newer cars have much better chassis and suspension design (on the whole). I'd like to get my FC and put an RX8 rear subframe on it. OEM part. Evolution of the same car. By your argument, I can argue that mine should be legal too. Why? Well semi trailing arms in the rear are prone to bend under the stresses of drifting.

[courantcom]

I know Kevin. Kevin knows me. I know the guy that did the modifications to the rear suspension on Chris's car. As I said before, lets not pretend I am just some fan in the corner complaining to complain. I know even exactly how much it was moved. I also know that his is not the most modified of the 350Z's.

Consistency. Consistency. Consistency.

Lets not try and push the new kid around too much. He might have a lot of friends.

...and some of those friends might or might not have a lot of other friends. Maybe...just maybe, they even have friends in the right places. ;-)

[_PG_]

I know Kevin. Kevin knows me. I know the guy that did the modifications to the rear suspension on Chris's car. As I said before, lets not pretend I am just some fan in the corner complaining to complain. I know even exactly how much it was moved. I also know that his is not the most modified of the 350Z's.

Consistency. Consistency. Consistency.

Lets not try and push the new kid around too much. He might have a lot of friends.

Jesus Chrsit, you guys really turn up the sob story. i'm not pushing anyone around, and I think I've said about a thousand times what area of the rules nabbed you, and that you're *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* out of luck. I'm sorry.

No one would have any problems with your team if it wasn't trying to find different ways to skirt around the issue and pretend like nothing was done to gain an unfair advantage.

[courantcom]

There are now how many V8 350 Zs in FD?

I assume you're talking about Chris's Z, since it was directed at my comment specifically. I invite you to talk to Kevin Wells about any questionable mods, he's gone over the rule book a million times and anything that is done to that car is well within the spectrum of the rules. In fact we had a conversation the other day about how people complain about Chris's car. Not only is it not the most modified car in FD, its also not even the most modified 350Z.

You are gonna get nowhere fast if you start throwing around wild allegations about every competitor. You guys want to actually succeed with something, talk about the cars that are breaking the same rules that you have.

When you say "you guys"...who are you referring to?

[courantcom]

Jesus Chrsit, you guys really turn up the sob story. i'm not pushing anyone around, and I think I've said about a thousand times what area of the rules nabbed you, and that you're *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* out of luck. I'm sorry.

No one would have any problems with your team if it wasn't trying to find different ways to skirt around the issue and pretend like nothing was done to gain an unfair advantage.

Dude...Tyndago isn't part of SA drift. The funny thing here is that there's really only one person on this thread that's from SA drift. The rest of us here are all just a bunch of passionate enthusiasts...and that includes myself. In fact, I'm just truck driver. ;-) I didn't make the mods. I didn't suggest the mods. Tyndago didn't either...

There's obviously an advantage...but it's not an advantage that sends the car immediately over the top. It's sad to say, but if the SA car wasn't very good...say with just a total of 50 points, I doubt anyone would even care about what this car has.

Like I said...nobody said a lot when the car came out of the truck out in Long Beach. Nobody said anything until it stretched its legs out in Long Beach, CA and qualified at the top. ...after that, more noise was made. ...but he didn't place at the end. Okay...no harm, no foul. Everything was cool -- end of the noise.

Round 2. SA Drift gets 2nd place...loses to JR. Exciting action man...seriously. MORE noise was made...blah blah blah. What would you say would have happened if Takatori defeated JR. Would you have thrown up your hands in disgust?

Round 3. SA Drift qualifies...as a good car/driver should. Word got around that the OS sequential transmission broke...I saw people quietly clapping. I made a few calls...and the same people that I saw clapping then wondered why an inconspicuous R32 mysteriously shows up. Hmm...well, it had something in there that they needed -- another OS sequential transmission. You can count how many of these transmissions are in the states on the paw of a 3-toed sloth. People that would have them won't have them sitting on a shelf. Some noise now... The next day, SA Drift goes up against Conrad and loses. No more noise.

[tyndago]

So SA changed the front suspension to give them an unfair advantage over every other car in the series?

This highly modified front suspension helped them to dominate the series. So far they have qualified #1 at every event, and been the clear cut winner over every single other car in the series.

Yes, that front modification has ruled every other modified rear suspension, coilover Corvette, and S14 shocked GTO obsolete.

Have you actually read the rule we are referring to ? Do you understand that the rulebook was translated to Japanese for the SA team. Do you understand that they built the car for the series based on the rulebook they saw.

8.3.1 The basic OEM suspension design must remain. Any changes to design type suspension must be preaproved by Formula Drift.

8.3.3 Modified or aftermarket suspension parts are only allowed if pre-approved by Formula Drift.

They showed up to the first event with the car in the configuration as it sits. OEM parts on the front of the car. Formula Drift has and had the ability to allow the car to run as it sat. They have allowed other cars to run with modifications. Wether or not those mods were "pre-approved" no one knows. Formula Drift wants to keep everyone quiet and in the dark about these "pre-approvals".

You can pay your $100 to protest any car. However you have no idea if what you are protesting has been "pre-approved". That list is not available to anyone.

Its really not about SA screwing up , and not gettting "pre-approval", its about a broken rulebook.

I am not a part of the team. I do not work for them. I have never met the driver. I do however care about what I see as bias in enforcing the rules. This bias is affecting one of my friends. SA is already feeling jaded by the series. All these backdoor "pre-approvals" and supposed fines. Formula Drift is going to have to bring this stuff to light.

[_PG_]

Dude...Tyndago isn't part of SA drift. The funny thing here is that there's really only one person on this thread that's from SA drift. The rest of us here are all just a bunch of passionate enthusiasts...and that includes myself. I didn't make the mods. I didn't suggest the mods. Tyndago didn't either...

There's obviously an advantage...but it's not an advantage that sends the car immediately over the top. It's sad to say, but if the SA car wasn't very good...say with just a total of 50 points, I doubt anyone would even care about what this car has.

Sad to say that you are probably right about the points thing.

Here's the deal, though: Tyrell P34 wasn't even breaking any rules. It didn't do THAT well where it dominated everything. But eventually F1 decided the potential to allow development of 6 wheeled cars would be out of hand if it were to continue to be legal. The A-arm to strut mod would prove to be like this.

As soon as FD allows change of suspension TYPE than it would be legal. And as a designer, believe me I could do some wild *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* to take advantage of that rule. But I won't/don't until the rules allow it.

[tyndago]

As soon as FD allows change of suspension TYPE than it would be legal. And as a designer, believe me I could do some wild *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* to take advantage of that rule. But I won't/don't until the rules allow it.

Why not ask them ? You can ask them for "pre-approval" right. Like taking FWD Scion and making it RWD.

8.3.1 The basic OEM suspension design must remain. Any changes to design type suspension must be preaproved by Formula Drift.

You think that the strut type suspension on a R34 chassis offers an unfair advantage over say a S14 with strut type suspension and an RB26 ?

How about then, do coil overs on a Corvette offer an advantage over leaf springs ? How about S14 rear components on a GTO ?

[_PG_]

Why not ask them ? You can ask them for "pre-approval" right. Like taking FWD Scion and making it RWD.

8.3.1 The basic OEM suspension design must remain. Any changes to design type suspension must be preaproved by Formula Drift.

Then they should have read that setion of the rule book and attempted to get this pre-approved.

You think that the strut type suspension on a R34 chassis offers an unfair advantage over say a S14 with strut type suspension and an RB26 ?

Yeah, cause an S chassis feels like its made out of tin foil, and an R34 is a much more robust chassis.

How about then, does coil overs on a Corvette offer and advantage over leaf springs ? How about S14 rear components on a GTO ?

Springs are springs. Springs and shocks should be packaged however is the most convenient, as long as its not changing the overall integral design of the suspension type. If you want to run torsion bars and a rotary shock for some reason, go ahead, it does the same thing as a more conventional setup, its just in a smaller package.

As for the GTO... Is the hub still GTO? And the subframe? You can string the 2 together with magical boners for all I care, the hub needs to be GTO and the Subframe too.

[facked_yer_mom]

orido is comming!!

[_PG_]

Also, there is another pretty clear cut issue:

Is the front spindle on the SA R34 from an R34 SKYLINE (since that's what the car is)? I doubt it, because the R34's spindle wouldn't have provisions for strut suspension. This will again open up a can of worms cause the spindle is from another car.

[courantcom]

orido is comming!!

Is his car pre-approved? hahaha