FORMULA D Rule Changes...

[olddrifter]

I do not think anyone is trying to say the TC is not legal, it just a lot of changes THAT ARE NOT COVERED IN THE RULES. and built under all exceptions (that many of them), the rules should be rewritten. and the cloke and dager back door work makes things look bad when there not. The TC is a good car and required alot of very hard work to complete, but the same platform rule change and flipping the motor, which other teams we told they could not do in 2006/2007 just make things look bad. FD has a hard job and working with so many car and changes keeps them busy trying to keep up. What happen to preseason tech inspections? in previous year we had to work hard to get cars passed tech.....and had only 1 race to make correction at the most/// FD's hard work and PROFESSIONAL work is not in question, some choices are. All that is need is to explane why one platform exception is legal and one is not.

[david_kay]

for those who claim the Scion TC is not Formula D legal. read the article in import tuner on it, it explains how it is legal.

[courantcom]

As you can see by my post count, I am a total post whore. Since many of you do not know who I am let me establish the fact that I am not a young 17 yr old kid posting my opinion. I started my company in 1991 in Irvine, Ca and now am located in a 27,000 sq ft building with a staff of 15. During those 17 years I have seen most of the best come to the top like Shaun Carlson, Steph Papadakis, and Bergenholtz racing.

Having a drift team is hard as f**k and keeping these cars in good working order has been a b*tch from day one. My company has dedicated so much time and money in the sport and we are still looking for success. Ben Schwartz was our original driver and now we have a team with Robbie Nishida and Joon Maeng. We have been drifting professionally for the past 4 years with all the vehicles built in house and it has been very difficult to keep up as a team owner.

While I can't speak on behalf of Formula D as a whole, I can say the heads at FD would not allow the lack of professionalism as discussed here. I have known the President of Formula D, Jim Liaw for a long time. We have had common friends since college and I've even worked with Jim during the IDRC drag racing days. He has worked the race tracks with me, in intense heat without reward or even stopping to eat. Jim has spent a lot of time with racers and knows what it takes. He understands the drivers and sponsorships and the pressures that race teams face everyday. Formula D is not the result of a bored man who came from money. Jim is a down to earth guy that works hard and is genuinely fair and honest. Even with my history and friendship with Jim, you can see by our team’s success in the past 4 years that I am not getting any sort of special treatment or favoritism.

I feel SA, Victor, and Sean are handling this whole situation with the R34 a bit unprofessionally. I know that all 3 parties involved in this thread have been in this industry for quite some time. I am surprised that you are using this forum as a public trial against FD and trying to rally the mob in your support. I am quite surprised because I would think that if SA had a problem they would be professional enough to negotiate a fair settlement to fix the problem with FD in a quiet professional matter. Since you have made this so public and now every drifting team in the world knows about this, I will assume they will have no choice but to make an example of SA. I am not siding with FD or SA, but I do feel this is not being dealt with properly.

In regards to Roo confronting the legality of the Scion TC, I will assume that FD has checked the car carefully and that it meets their approval. What is surprising to me is that both cars are sponsored by Toyo, yet the SA team is throwing their fellow team member under the bus. I could imagine Toyo corporate being upset about the way Team SA has been handling the situation by attempting to blow the whistle on another Toyo team and risk possible penalization as well.

Why don’t we let the parties that are involved take care of the issue. I am sure that FD will do something fair to resolve this situation since I am sure they want to see the R34 run in their series. I am sure that team SA will also do what is necessary to make sure that this car can run in the series.

Thats all I wanted to say about the situation.
Good luck to all the teams this year!
Eddie Kim

Every employee of Formula D shares the implications of being affiliated with a small organization. Every little thing that any Formula D representative does will affect Formula D's reputation as a whole -- even if that means sending out mass emails containing a transcript of a friendly AOL IM session. Therefore, it's imperative that everyone remain consistent in how business is conducted.

Large organizations are different. Even a janitor can proudly say they work for Microsoft, and it's just common understanding that not everyone in such a business structure can represent Microsoft. I whole heartedly agree with you that the founding fathers of Formula D have shared a bit of the same growing pains as all of us have since we have been involved in this industry for quite some time. There's no doubt in my mind that they know what they are doing.

Prior to the start of this online discussion, all talks were kept private. Talks were mostly kept quiet since the car was unveiled in Long Beach, CA. Granted that other parties voiced their opinions about the SA Drift entry through various message boards, I for one, kept quiet. This period of time allowed the sanctioning body the opportunity to take action.

As a 3rd party to all this (surprise, surprise...I'm not a part of SA Drift), I am still involved with their efforts since they employ me to ensure that their race car and goods arrive at each event. The actions demanded to penalize the SA Drift effort came to me as a surprise since there are other race teams that have "suspension modifications" as well. Gloves were off, and a rule book was referenced. Inconsistencies stacked on top of one another, and this too, was also quietly brought to Formula D's attention. Inconsistencies outside of their rule book also came into view as actions of their Chief Stewart seemed to either not happen at all, or just go unnoticed.

Simply put, the SA Drift car is being bullied around. The SA Drift car did NOT seek pre-approval, so it now has illegal suspension modifications. Other cars may or may not have sought pre-approval, but can have suspension modifications. I have suggested a resolution to this portion, and that was to apply a fine for SA Drift's inability to comply with procedures. After the fine has been paid, the SA Drift car should be approved because, like other cars in the series, it just has suspension modifications that help keep their team competitive against other cars.
1) FINE SA Drift
2) TAKE AWAY POINTS
3) Approve the car since it seems like it would have been pre-approved anyway.
4) Business as usual.

Everything would have been just fine until they asked SA Drift to return their car back to stock R34 front suspension. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. The logic that then ensued with this new information on hand was why just the SA Drift car had to be returned to stock when there are clearly other entries OK to compete with modified suspension?

I for one, did independently consult with another Formula D staff member, and we shared our thoughts. I agreed to keep our conversation confidential because a final decision was yet to be drawn. Yes...I called someone before the decision was made. After the decision was made, the only thing I could think about was how to fix the car. I called Sean, as he is quite possibly the most resourceful Skyline anything here in the USA. My initial intention of calling him was to begin seeking parts so that SA Drift will not have to air freight EVERYTHING from Japan. After talking about it a bit, we were just both convinced that this shouldn't even have to be done -- then an online discussion began.

I read your post, and appreciate your candor, however I can't help but see all this as additional spin control. You did, after all, mention that you're friends with Jim. My involvement with SA Drift isn't on a friendship level. I have not known Roo for years, and I met the rest of SA drift for the first time just days before Round 1. I just do some work for them, and they pay me. That's pretty much that. I'm mentioning this bit of information so it's clear that I'm not trying to do this as a "favor". I've already been accused of favortism - stating that if this were D1, I would keep quiet.

It's not favortism...it's standing up for what you feel is right. I'll do this for anyone that works closely with me and I feel that I can make a difference...and quite a bit of you know that I will, and more importantly, that I have.

It seems as if Formula D's practice of professionalism is to work with a broom and a very large rug. Keeping things quiet and stealthy for something like this is just a contingency plan if in case something goes wrong. Maybe now, there's just not enough room under that rug to hide something this big.

Eddie...I mean absolutely no harm in my postings other than to draw attention and discuss what has obviously been going on for years. Aside from all this and how your businesses have grown, I'll always know you better as Dynamic Autosports. Without your involvement in this industry, we all would have been lost when it was all just starting.

[courantcom]

for those who claim the Scion TC is not Formula D legal. read the article in import tuner on it, it explains how it is legal.

It's LEGAL....'nuff said.

[tyndago]

I feel SA, Victor, and Sean are handling this whole situation with the R34 a bit unprofessionally. I know that all 3 parties involved in this thread have been in this industry for quite some time. I am surprised that you are using this forum as a public trial against FD and trying to rally the mob in your support. I am quite surprised because I would think that if SA had a problem they would be professional enough to negotiate a fair settlement to fix the problem with FD in a quiet professional matter. Since you have made this so public and now every drifting team in the world knows about this, I will assume they will have no choice but to make an example of SA. I am not siding with FD or SA, but I do feel this is not being dealt with properly.

You feel that SA, Victor and myself are handling this unprofessionally, I feel that Formula Drift is handling it unprofessionally. We will agree to disagree on this matter.

I have no official involvement with the team. Victor is a friend of mine, and has been for years. Victor is the transporter for Team SA. In New Jersey, I helped them get a "rental" OS Giken sequential transmission from a GT-R owner on the East Coast. Coming up with an OS sequential transmission to borrow on the East Coast, tell me thats an easy thing.

Victor called me last weekend, told me that they would probably be needing some parts for an R34. I started to question him about the parts and reasoning behind it, and I thought the reasoning did not make much sense to me. I have been in and around, poked my head into the series here and there. I know and talk to a lot of people in the series.

I posted up this thread nearly a week after Formula Drift had already made their final decision. I was expressing my personal opinion of what I saw to be biases in the Formula Drift rulebook. After looking at everything further, I saw that Team SA did violate the rules. I however believe that they did not do it with intent to circumvent the rules, I think it was just a mis-interpretation.

Again, the decision by Formula Drift had already been made, and I felt they singled out Team SA. I felt they had their time to make a decision what was inline with what they allowed other teams to have, but they made the decision to push around a new team.

It seems to be that Formula Drifts policy is one of keeping things quiet. They feel these matters are sensitive. What is sensitive is a system of "pre-approvals" that the competitors may or may not have. Pre-approved S14 rear shocks and modifications on a GTO, Coil over suspension on a Corvette? I say the Corvette and GTO can keep their suspension, it does not offer them an unfair advantage. Neither does the strut type front suspension on the R34.

Why keep things quiet after the decision has already been made ? Shouldn't the policy be of keeping the competitors and teams informed ? Why should the public not know that the car had to change from a strut type suspension to multi link suspension ?

How does Team SA justify the money they need to spend on their car to make it "legal" for a series, when there is a Scion TC in the same series that was converted from FWD to RWD ?

[sa-drift.com]

In regards to Roo confronting the legality of the Scion TC, I will assume that FD has checked the car carefully and that it meets their approval. What is surprising to me is that both cars are sponsored by Toyo, yet the SA team is throwing their fellow team member under the bus. I could imagine Toyo corporate being upset about the way Team SA has been handling the situation by attempting to blow the whistle on another Toyo team and risk possible penalization as well.

To save time quoting myself, I'll repeat repeat repeat myself. I am not confronting the legality of the tC. I am well aware of how it was built step by step to conform to FD rules. There is no question of legality with it. The reason it was brought up is with it, Formula D made the statement that chassis is the defining factor when it comes to legality, not the model. Our front suspension isn't just OEM Nissan, it is in fact "basic OEM suspension design" from the same chassis, but a different models. Both it and the double arm is made to with any 34 chassis (R34/W34/C34)

The reason I am speaking about this publicly is I don't share Formula D's mindset on keeping everything secret/private/etc. (especially when doing so is obviously causing alot more problems from them than they seem willing to admit) We have nothing to hide on our car, no secret weapon, no secret modification...shouldn't every car be this way? We have nothing to hide and no team should.

Call it unprofessional of me to make the public aware of what we feel is unfair...but if I had been given formal notification that my car was being investigated for violations of specific rules, given a spefic amount of time to prepare a defense, and a meeting/hearing/whatever held to discuss the issues....now that would be professional....but that didn't happen, in fact, I have no idea what happened because everything is secret, noone knows what's going on with the other cars or investigations anything. This is not how things are done in other motorsports.

Either fine us and approve the suspension or impose the same penalties on every car in violation of the same rules. Either everyone gets a pass (what I think should happen) or noone does. Like I said, as per the rules, we already requested this rule be removed from the rulebook. You don't have the same rule in D1 and when you already have so many cars in violation of it, what is the point?

[david_kay]

To save time quoting myself, I'll repeat repeat repeat myself. I am not confronting the legality of the tC. I am well aware of how it was built step by step to conform to FD rules. There is no question of legality with it. The reason it was brought up is with it, Formula D made the statement that chassis is the defining factor when it comes to legality, not the model. Our front suspension isn't just OEM Nissan, it is in fact "basic OEM suspension design" from the same chassis, but a different models. Both it and the double arm is made to with any 34 chassis (R34/W34/C34)

The reason I am speaking about this publicly is I don't share Formula D's mindset on keeping everything secret/private/etc. (especially when doing so is obviously causing alot more problems from them than they seem willing to admit) We have nothing to hide on our car, no secret weapon, no secret modification...shouldn't every car be this way? We have nothing to hide and no team should.

Call it unprofessional of me to make the public aware of what we feel is unfair...but if I had been given formal notification that my car was being investigated for violations of specific rules, given a spefic amount of time to prepare a defense, and a meeting/hearing/whatever held to discuss the issues....now that would be professional....but that didn't happen, in fact, I have no idea what happened because everything is secret, noone knows what's going on with the other cars or investigations anything. This is not how things are done in other motorsports.

Either fine us and approve the suspension or impose the same penalties on every car in violation of the same rules. Either everyone gets a pass (what I think should happen) or noone does. Like I said, as per the rules, we already requested this rule be removed from the rulebook. You don't have the same rule in D1 and when you already have so many cars in violation of it, what is the point?

glad to hear it from the team itself. i have to say the whole thing sounds a little out of hand.

[PeakPerformance]

I understand that you may be upset how this might have been handled and I don't know all the details. I know I am smart enough not to take sides without knowing all the details, I am just a shop owner, not smart enough to really tell you what should or shouldn’t be done.

I also know you think that Formula D put me up to this to do some damage control. I can promise you that they have not contacted me nor want a guy that has no legitimacy on this site to try to do so called damage control. Honestly, they have access to some drift horsepower like Tanner or Rhys to really shut some people up. I am not the right person to do this for them, if that was their real intent. Since we have that out of the way, I know there is a big problem and Team SA has to find a solution in order to race. I think as a friend of theirs, you have to really go after solving this and getting them back on the track. I can't imagine at this point that Formula D is all of sudden going to change their position about the car, apologize and let the car run. At this point, do you really think they are going to change the rules, they may in the future. I think all this public discussion and arguing is probably worse for Team SA and going to create bad feelings on both sides.

I think that Formula D has pretty much decided, I am assuming they are going to hand down some penalty including fines and points. (assumption, I could be wrong). Since the race team consists of sponsors, driver, car and race crew, Team SA will have to make a decision. I think the following are some scenarios:
1) Stop racing and just forget FD, which would be unfortunate for everyone, except me, since that might allow my team to move up 1 spot. But for the overall good of drift, it wouldn't be good for Team SA to leave
2) Don't fix it and face the music, more penalities and fines. Maybe be banned from participating etc etc
3) Bit*h, moan, and complain - fix the problem, talk sh*t and get back to racing. I don't know how you will feel, talking to the FD staff after talking sh*t and creating a really difficult relationship. FD is a family(with a lot of fighting), we see each other all the time. So if you continue drifting, you will have to continue seeing these people every month.
4) Grit your teeth, fix the problem. Try to fix whatever both sides have done. Work as a family and work these issues out. I feel that people are going to argue when you work closely together and so much is at stake. If we are all mature enough, maybe we can work thru our issues and try to work out our problems so we can back to drifting. Also I hate to say it, but FD is a young race organization, and they are going to have their own problems and mistakes. I think the drift community is pretty cool and I think we can work with our organizers since this hasn't really be done before. Our sport is ground breaking and we are the pioneers on both sides as racers and as organization.

Also for all the guys that are involved in this thread, let's use this forum to resolve issues in a mature manner. Sh*t talking isnt really necessary and it doesn't really help the situation. Some of these guys are personally attacking Jim and FD, there is no need for that. Victor and Sean, I respect the fact that you use your name and you don't use the internet for anonymity and just start talking sh*t. I think that alot of people on this forum are free to talk sh*t to people we all know. I can respect that you are mad and want to say stuff like that, but I challenge people to say these things to Formula D staff. I doubt that most of you would go up to Jim or the FD staff and talk sh*t to their face. So I say, unless you can say these things to a staff members face or my face, let's keep the sh*t talking to a minimum.

Lets get the R34 fixed and to Vegas so we can show Takatori the power of a stroked VQ35!

See you in Vegas
Eddie Kim
Dynamic Autosports/Peak Performance

[bergenholtz]

Plain and simple just make the changes Formula D wants and go out there and drift. Formula D provides a healthy enviroment for all of us to compete in and grow. We should be very thankful that they are growing the sport of drift by leaps and bounds here in America. If they don't like something within their guidelines just make the change. No excuses. Then go out to the next event and compete. No bithcin and whining. Just race. Prove to everyone involved you guys can still win even with the new guidlines. If you can't compete within FD guidelines then apparently your suspension setup had some type of advantage. Bottom of the line go out there and compete. No excuses.

Drifting is more about the skill of the driver anyway and not the car right????????

"Pull up your skirt,stop whining, and just go drifting."

[sa-drift.com]

Eddie, it's nothing personal against Jim, Randy, Andy anyone at FD and none of what the team has done or said is directed at any individual in any personal way and I'm sure they know this. They are definatly not happy with this being so public but something needs to be done, and soon.

Like I said, and this keeps being repeated with no answer....at this point FD fining us and penalizing us...for what exactly? It seems for not getting preapproval. (though if this was a court of law, as soon as a judge found out there is no documentation/list/etc of any vehicles being given preapproval, this would be a none issue)

Regardless, they must choose to approve the suspension...or choose not to...and that is where we're taking issue. I have no response from them as of yet.

The bottom line is they either allow everyone the same ability to change things up or not. If you want a fair, level playing field, that type of consistancy is an absolute neccesity.

If they don't approve it, then they're saying we must revert back to the double arm setup...but there are several vehicles that have more changed up on them with non OEM parts and whatnot...so with preapprovals aside (since there is no documentation for any of them, a very large mistake on Formula D's part), those vehicles should be forced to change their setups back as well.

[courantcom]

*sigh* I'm going to miss this board for a little bit...headed away from a computer for the weekend. Ya'll be good now. Maybe at the end of all this, it'll just be like a bad dream. ;-)

Eddie...I read what you wrote. As you and everyone else may predict, I have something to say. I'll just let all of this cook over the weekend, and I'll be looking for some good Pho when I get back!

[bergenholtz]

If you don't like what FD is doing............drift elsewhere with another series. How about NOPI Drift???????

FD wants the same suspension geometry that comes factory with the original car to be in place. If the car came with double wishbone then it should be double wishbone.

With all this time spent commenting on the subject, you would have figured it would have been spent puting the suspension back to FD spec by now, to get ready for the race.

[sa-drift.com]

FD wants the same suspension geometry that comes factory with the original car to be in place. If the car came with double wishbone then it should be double wishbone.

Mr. postcount o' 2, did you even read what I wrote on this page? It's in bold....

The bottom line is they either allow everyone the same ability to change things up or not. If you want a fair, level playing field, that type of consistancy is an absolute neccesity.

We're not asking for any special treatement, just equal treatment. That's what the rules are there for....right?

With all this time spent commenting on the subject, you would have figured it would have been spent puting the suspension back to FD spec by now, to get ready for the race.

You do realize the car is in storage in California...we're in Japan...

[bergenholtz]

Bottom of the line if you want to compete in FD abide by the rules........if not compete elsewhere. You are in Japan right? Why not compete in D1?

[EficPail]

Dear Drifting Enthusiasts,

What I am about to post is going to piss a lot of people off, but I need to get this off of my chest. I've been following this thread religiously for the past few days, and I feel that it's time to put my $0.02 in. And when I said it's going to piss a lot of people off, I actually meant that it's only going to piss a few of you off. Good.

So here goes; read this once, read it twice; do whatever it takes to get through your thick skulls, because it seems to be that whatever anyone posts, nobody is clear about it.

So our own staff exhaustively did the research and getting all the documents and paperwork from Nissan, spending many hours to make sure that we knew exactly what was what. Conclusion: R34 did not come with strut suspension, rather double wishbone. The suspension parts rather came off that of a C34. The team maintained the whole time that the R34 came with strut suspension. Not once prior to entering the series did they alert us of the build or ask for any kind of guidance (again this is a common practice for many builders that work in the series) on what they were doing.

Rather SA maintained that the parts were in fact from an R34. This is a black and white issue. And we investigated it for nearly two rounds so as to make sure we knew exactly what we were talking about and to take the time to get the right information. You can't complain about the rule book after the fact. That rule has been there for a long time.

The reason that Team SA-Drift and friends is pissed off is quite obvious. We all sympathize with situations where we feel that the "little man" is being singled out. After careful deliberation of the "facts" posted here from both parties, I've come to the following conclusion of my own:

The reason that Team SA-Drift is so upset is because in order to revert the R34 front suspension back to factory standards, they would need to replace the strut towers in their entirety, as they did initially to accomodate the [C]34/[W]34 suspension components.

As you can see in the following quoted post by sa-drift.com, he stated that the "34" chassis comes with both setups from the factory. You, sir, are not lying there. The C34 and/or W34 chassis' do come with the suspension components that you specified.

....and for those who wanted to see it:

The 34 chassis comes with both setups from the factory.

However, the R34 suspension, which is the issue at hand and being addressed as the major source of dilemma in this situation, was only available as a "double" wishbone setup with two holes on the strut tower to accommodate it.

I've seen many Skylines in my day, and I will say this, as well: If you were to put SA's R34 nose-to-nose with a factory, no, MANY factory R34's, you will easily win the game of "what doesn't belong". The parts are NOT easily interchangeable, and I believe this is why there is so much resistance coming from SA Drift's camp. This would take a lot of money, a lot of cutting, a lot of welding, a lot of painting, etc. to reverse the modification. If it was so stock/factory OE, as Roo states, why would you risk being fined and losing points over such a simple fix? Hmm. Why not just change it back?

Well, I'll tell you why. It's so much easier to sit here on the forums and defend a car that isn't physically available, nor are there pictures for everyone to see and judge for themselves. It's easier to step up and blame FD, the "bigger man", for singling out the "little man". It's easier to point fingers at other teams and make comparisons, but it has already been confirmed by multiple parties that as a growing series and company, FD has allowed this pre-approval on these vehicles.

So why didn't SA Drift just get this preapproval? Why don't they just go back and say "Hey, look at this modification; can we get this approved to run the rest of the series? The modification will push the limits of what's possible with cars and drivers, so why not?"

The answer is simple. Roo stated that the car was available as it is currently built from the factory. False. When confronted about this by multiple posters in this thread, the defense was put up a bit more, and Roo stuck to his guns about his story. So then, it would have been a simple thing to say something along the lines of "I checked with my technician who built the front end, and he stated the 34s come with the suspension at hand, but I did verify that it was only on C34s and W34s. I apologize for the confusion, as it was my misunderstanding, so what is there to do to get approved to run the series?"

Roo, you present yourself with ignorance with this mentality. I thought I could have expected more from you. Guess not.

SA, you've been given this much time to make the modification back, or tried to have it approved. You should have followed the proper procedure, instead of raising all hell on drifting.com. Now read this carefully, as this quote will show that you've been aware of the issue, and have had ample time to try to resolve it.

Long Beach/Annual Tech. SA Drift brings the car to tech and our staff finds that the original suspension on the R34 has been modified to a strut-type suspension. When FD staff addressed the concern with SA staff, we were told that the R34 was available with strut suspension thus falling in line with the guidelines of suspension as directed by the rule book. For us and for fairness to other competitors, anything out of the ordinary like that has to be verified. So we worked with the team to try and verify the information.

Nope. SA Drift and friends decided to post irrelevant information to misguide the general population. The change of rules, as the topic states? How did any rules change? The rules were broken in the first place by SA Drift. Which means, rules weren't changed by FD, rules were broken by SA. But why does this "FD changes rules" post surface so recently? Was it because it was just recently announced that SA still haven't seeked FD's approval? Because it was recently announced that qualifying points were to be stripped from Takatori? Because it was recently announced that SA's team was going to be fined? Hmmm. SOOO much easier to try to fight it publicly than to resolve it quietly. Immaturity, if you ask me.

Let's all grow up here, and eat a piece of humble pie. The rate at which things are progressing now is only going to lead to hatred in the industry, which is farking retarded. Man up, shut up, and apologize for breaking the damn rules, and work on trying to find a solution behind closed doors, not publicly on a forum. This is none of the general pop's business, and is only a way to burn the candle from both ends.

And courantcom, why are you so adamant on trying to change the rules anyway? The rules weren't the problem here. In my opinion, you're digging yourself a bigger hole by defending a team that broke the rules in the first place. Don't try to find an excuse to justify yourself in posting this irrelevance, but just shut up and let the parties at hand fix this mess. You claim that you're not a part of SA Drift's team, but you seem to be swinging from their nuts right now. It's not flattering at all. Stop. Stop feeding the flame. In fact, I could recall one incident last season where a team was fined (a much larger sum of money) for "cheating" and "breaking the rules". Within this season, another team was fined the same amount for "cheating" and "breaking the rules". So what makes this a different situation? You don't see them coming on the forums and raising awareness to irrelevant facts... Actually, I meant to say you don't see their RIG DRIVERS coming on the forums and bringing public awareness to their situations. So why are you on here and making a fool out of yourself and SA Drift?

Oh, and if you're wondering, I have no affiliation with FD; I'm just a long time reader of drifting.com and a lot of my friends in this industry are your friends, too. A LOT. And I'm sick of seeing this immaturity about a sport that I care about so much. I DO believe that FD has a lot of room for improvement, but that's only because it's such a new sport and series in the US, and it's evolving every year. FD can be contributed to this change, so we should give them some credit here; it's gotta be extremely difficult to cater to everyone's needs and desires. But no one has made such a public stink about this as several of you have. It's ridiculous now. And this will be my only post. If you want to address this with me personally, feel free to email me at eficpail@eficpail.com.

But I refuse to play this game with you internet pro's with this back and forth. I've said my piece, and that's all that I needed to say. So with that...

A couple of you are true Efic Pailures. Thank you for making the rest of us look so good.

That is all I have to say about that.

Oh, and too little, too late. Whatever happens with the SA Team is well-deserved, whichever way the wind blows.

Sincerely,

EficPail.com