FORMULA D Rule Changes...

[bergenholtz]

Remember one year, when there was an NHRA race out here in Pomona? Instead of staying home to race, we went out to Moroso, FL to race NIRA? Think back a little...I'm sure you remember. I raced with Turbo Joe Morgan then with a RWD Ford Focus Wagon. When we finally got out to Moroso, it was starting to rain when we were supposed to race. It was just barely starting to rain...like drizzle rain/stop.

We were in the paddock when we "heard" that they were just going to cancel the race and just make something else a double points race. I mean...what? We just drove out from the west coast to come to a race that's about to be canceled because of a little drizzle? Oh hell no, right? We just dropped like $1500 in fuel to get our own rig out there, let alone yours, and what everyone else spent to get there from the west coast.

What did we do? Dude, you were one of the people that rallied all the drivers together in the paddock so we could talk to the sanctioning body. We talked to them as a whole and said that this was all a bunch of bs. We stated our case, and they complied. What happened....we stayed until Monday to run the race when the skies were clear.

Granted, there were less spectators, hardly any vendor booths, etc, but we ran the race. Do you remember the basis of our argument? That's where we concluded that you can still run a race without spectators...without sponsors being there, without vendor booths, etc. You can NOT run a race without racers. We didn't let the sanctioning body dictate what they wanted for us to do...which was just plain and simple, pack up and go home. If we did what they wanted for us to do, we would have just had a bunch of fun spending $3000 in fuel, and losing two week's worth of time to just go home because of a little rain. Sorry fellas, no race this weekend - but thanks for coming out! It's gonna rain.

Since then, drag racing sanctioning bodies changed their rain out rules. They stay until the rain goes away and they run the race then...Monday, Tuesday...Wednesday, whatever day.

That was you back then, and now I see you just suggesting that SA Drift just go and take the "plain and simple" solution... When you start remembering this situation, remember -- RWD Ford Focus Wagon. Yeah...trust me, I was a rule junkie back then too. ;-)

There is some control of how the race is to be run and I agree with you we as racers can make some difference. Regarding rules is another story.

I understand what you are saying. I remeber. I don't want to come to offend anyone. I'm just basing my opinion on my experiences. Me of all people have had several confrontations with drag organizations. Most of the drag organizations I've dealt with never listen. It is their way or the highway. They are like the government. Nothing you can do. I bitched and moaned back in the day non-stop of how unfair it was that the competition had millions of dollars backing them. It was totally unfair. GM/Rousch Racing had all kinds of resources that we had no access to or the money to do them. NHRA let them run-amuck in PROFWD as well as Hot Rod. I realized in late 2004 I was going to get nowhere with NHRA so we just shut-up and raced. We tried our damdest and never gave-up with the rules they gave us. It seeemed sooooo impossible to do but we never gave up. The result despite the strength of the competition was back to back NHRA Championships in 2005 and 2006. Look who we were up against: Factory backed GM and Roush cars. Not just one but several of them. We just stopped bitching and just raced.

That is my experience the past 13 years. Obviously everyone knows that drag racing is mostly about the racecar and its engineering to win. The engine is the heart of the whole situation. The drivers skill is not as crucial to winning as compared to drifting.

In comparison, the vehicle plays a small role to winning in Drifting. The Driver is what it is all about. I have the utmost respect for all Drift drivers. There is so much skill involved to piloting those vehicles. When I saw video of my boy MIki piloting our FD, it looked like he was playing the piano. His hands were allover the place in the car. Almost as if he was conducting a symphony. I was truly amazed. All of you Drift drivers are like musicians, creating music on the track. Some sound like Beethoven on the track, some sound like Chopsticks on the Piano. Nevertheless it takes skill to play the Piano. You guys are the sh*t.

With those ideas described above, the obvious conclusion is that the driver plays the major role in drifting...............not the car. Why not make the changes necessary and prove FD and all the teams that you guys can win because your driver has the skill to play Mozart on the track. Your driver is a good driver. I know he probably got the brawn and brains probably to drive a Volkwagen bug and still place Top 16. After all my years racing in different organizations they will not take any bitching and moaning from any of us race teams. I have only succeeded once in doing that. Don't get me wrong when something is wrong I get pretty irate too and like to stand by my convictions but.............it has never made a difference. I've learned just to make do and never giveup in regards to rules and regulations. Drifting has got it good....................its all about the driver making beautiful music not the car.

Try racing against one car with a million plus behind it for one year.....and
four other cars with even more millions behind those cars another year.

Thats a pain in the *Censored**Censored**Censored*.

On a side note, one thing to keep in mind. FD is doing a stellar job in growing the sport and taking care of it. They provide a fruitful enviroment for all of us to do what we love and get paid for it or at least break even. The sponsors get a great return on their investment because FD does their job to make sure that everyone in the World sees your car. Bottom of the line, competing in FD is a business. Some of us have sponsors and as team owners we have to show those sponsors a return on their investment. Imagine, if we had all of these sponsors on our cars and there was noone in the stands. (NHRA Sport Comapct Drag Racing) Our sponsors would be very disappointed......if not p*ssed! FD comes up with ideas to make the sport bigger and badder. They pack the stands. They wanna make sure our sponsors on these cars get a return on their investment. Be very happy they are doing there job. NHRA sure did'nt.

Just my measily .02 cents. Just trying to help out. Please excuse me if I am too straightforward.

[courantcom]

I understand what you are saying. I remeber. I don't want to come to offend anyone. I'm just basing my opinion on my experiences. Me of all people have had several confrontations with drag organizations. Most of the drag organizations I've dealt with never listen. It is their way or the highway. They are like the government. Nothing you can do. I bitched and moaned back in the day non-stop of how unfair it was that the competition had millions of dollars backing them. It was totally unfair. GM/Rousch Racing had all kinds of resources that we had no access to or the money to do them. NHRA let them run-amuck in PROFWD as well as Hot Rod. I realized in late 2004 I was going to get nowhere with NHRA so we just shut-up and raced. We tried our damdest and never gave-up with the rules they gave us. It seeemed sooooo impossible to do but we never gave up. The result despite the strength of the competition was back to back NHRA Championships in 2005 and 2006. Look who we were up against: Factory backed GM and Roush cars. Not just one but several of them. We just stopped bitching and just raced.

Not to draw a similarity here, but manufacturers are also here in drifting. Maybe they're not as "involved" as they were in drag racing back in the day with their full factory teams and support, but rest assured I know they're watching.

That is my experience the past 13 years. Obviously everyone knows that drag racing is mostly about the racecar and its engineering to win. The engine is the heart of the whole situation. The drivers skill is not as crucial to winning as compared to drifting.

In comparison, the vehicle plays a small role to winning in Drifting. The Driver is what it is all about. I have the utmost respect for all Drift drivers. There is so much skill involved to piloting those vehicles. When I saw video of my boy MIki piloting our FD, it looked like he was playing the piano. His hands were allover the place in the car. Almost as if he was conducting a symphony. I was truly amazed. All of you Drift drivers are like musicians, creating music on the track. Some sound like Beethoven on the track, some sound like Chopsticks on the Piano. Nevertheless it takes skill to play the Piano. You guys are the sh*t.

With those ideas described above, the obvious conclusion is that the driver plays the major role in drifting...............not the car. Why not make the changes necessary and prove FD and all the teams that you guys can win because your driver has the skill to play Mozart on the track.

As easy as it may "sound", it's gonna take some time to do it. I've already mentioned somewhere in this post that it'll take like 4 days or so, but that's 4 straight days. Not only that, but I'm sure the people would have to fly over from Japan to do it just because they would just want to do it themselves. SA Drift team plan for their trips from Japan to the states well in advance to take advantage of cheaper plane tickets and what not. Plans to come for Round 4 have been in place since Round 2. For them to suddenly have to change plans will totally increase the costs of flying over that much earlier. Again, easier said that done. I'm sure that they're already planned of when to go back home to Japan, and then fly out again for Round 5. Racing around at local events, or having the luxury of seeing their race car on a daily basis won't ever happen for these guys while they live in Japan, and their car is here with me.

Roo posted pictures of what the car looked like when it was a bare chassis. In order to get the car ready for this kind of a modification, everything on the front of the car would have to be stripped out. It sounds easy to most, but to you and I, we both know that's not a simple task. On top of all that, there's always a chance something will go wrong in the process. Right now, the car is good. It's straight enough, and it works. Obviously the easier thing to do is just to leave it alone.

Your driver is a good driver. I know he probably got the brawn and brains probably to drive a Volkwagen bug and still place Top 16. After all my years racing in different organizations they will not take any bitching and moaning from any of us race teams. I have only succeeded once in doing that. Don't get me wrong when something is wrong I get pretty irate too and like to stand by my convictions but.............it has never made a difference. I've learned just to make do and never giveup in regards to rules and regulations. Drifting has got it good....................its all about the driver making beautiful music not the car.

Dude...you make it sound like you only succeeded only once. Maybe against NHRA, you did, but you can't just count there. You alone are one of the reasons why this industry has such a following. You've been there since the first Battle, the first Showoff...I mean, come on man. You're honestly right up there along with Eddie at Dynamic, Frank Choi from Battle, Ken Miyoshi from Showoff...right there buddy. Your actions and involvements have been always in the spotlight one way or the other. Your team colors are always going to be your team colors. Not a lot of people know, but I'll tell you that all the right people know.

Try racing against one car with a million plus behind it for one year.....and four other cars with even more millions behind those cars another year.

Thats a pain in the *Censored**Censored**Censored*.

On a side note, one thing to keep in mind. FD is doing a stellar job in growing the sport and taking care of it. They provide a fruitful enviroment for all of us to do what we love and get paid for it or at least break even. The sponsors get a great return on their investment because FD does their job to make sure that everyone in the World sees your car. Bottom of the line, competing in FD is a business. Some of us have sponsors and as team owners we have to show those sponsors a return on their investment. Imagine, if we had all of these sponsors on our cars and there was noone in the stands. (NHRA Sport Comapct Drag Racing) Our sponsors would be very disappointed......if not p*ssed! FD comes up with ideas to make the sport bigger and badder. They pack the stands. They wanna make sure our sponsors on these cars get a return on their investment. Be very happy they are doing there job. NHRA sure did'nt.

Yes...KUDO's to Formula Drift...by all means. I've been posting suggestions on here that seem to still go unnoticed. In some way or another, each one of us in this thread have posted something to IMPROVE upon their system that they have in place now. Some rules need to be more CLARIFIED. Something needs to be done so that something like this NEVER can happen again. Is that so wrong to ask for? Is that so wrong to lobby for? Is that so wrong to stand up for... No. Instead of my suggestions being read and understood, people keep thinking that all I want is for Formula D to bend over backwards and take it in the rear. Absolutely not. Formula D needs to quit with the defense and start paying attention.

This thread shows that people are paying attention.

Just my measily .02 cents. Just trying to help out. Please excuse me if I am too straightforward.

Your .02 cents are worth than what you think because of who you are, and how you have helped make this industry flourish.

[Justin Banner]

SA-Drift

How come you guys don't have an English speaking mechanic? Not trying to be critical and I can understand budget constraints if that's the reason. Even if you did, even I'm a little confused by the rules reading them as is. The only reason I have a little clarity about it was by watching the latest Drift Zone where it was basically spelled out.

Everyone Else

My opinion, I agree with courantcom, fine them, allow them to compete for the rest of the year, modify the rules to define what's really allowed and have public VTS sheets. NASA, SCCA, and many other organizations have these rules in place for this reason. However, as the rules are currently written, SA-Drift did violate them, unfortunately from a translation issue.

Again, this is my opinion, but the course now should be fine SA, allow them to compete for the rest of the year, modify the rules to define what's really allowed and have public VTS sheets.

[bergenholtz]

On a brighter note, Opions are good and obviously listened. I would assume they are taken into consideration by the powers that be and a difference will be made. Believe me they are listening. They are thinking about it. Bottom of the line, we are all in this together for the love of the sport. Let's try not to make it conflicting opinion but constructive. Understanding and productivity as a whole (ALL of US involved) is the key and I would imagine all our 2 cents together can make a difference to maybe a million bucks together for the Sport of Drift.

"Can't we all just get along."

-Rodney King

My measily two cents again towards the million dollars. heheheeheh

[courantcom]

On a brighter note, Opions are good and obviously listened. I would assume they are taken into consideration by the powers that be and a difference will be made. Bottom of the line, we are all in this together for the love of the sport. Let's try not to make it conflicting opinion but constructive. Understanding and productivity is they key and I would imagine all our 2 cents together can make a difference to maybe a million bucks.

"Can't we all just get along."

-Rodney King

My measily two cents again towards the million dollars. heheheeheh

Dude, you can't be quoting Rodney King in a situation like this!

What happened in his situation? He got pulled over going what...80+ in a Hyundai Excel. Then, he got beat down by the police with their batons and what not. Someone video taped it, made it public, and then the police went to court. The court let the cops go, and the Los Angeles Riots started... The cops went back to court, and were convicted at that time, after the result of a massive public unrest. The big bad police was wrong. Had this particular incident not been brought to the public's attention, Rodney King would have just been thrown out of a moving car in front of his house, and nobody would have ever looked back.

The whole key to what brought justice to Rodney King was that the information that I'm CERTAIN the police wanted to keep quiet was made public by someone who thought that everyone needed to know. Hmmm...kinda like this entire thread, huh.

Hmmm...in this particular situation, SA Drift is like Rodney King, and Formula D is the LAPD (Los Angeles Police Department). They could have just given him a speeding ticket, just like everyone else and let him go...but NoOOo.

[bergenholtz]

Come on man. Thats not the context I meant it in.

I'm just saying we all need to work together. It has been brought to their attention and it is time to move on. Improvements will be made and it should be good. The overall goal is to make drifting grow and prosper. We need to all get along and have productive dialogue.

[courantcom]

Come on man. Thats not the context I meant it in.

I'm just saying we all need to work together. It has been brought to their attention and it is time to move on. Improvements will be made and it should be good. The overall goal is to make drifting grow and prosper. We need to all get along and have productive dialogue.

Oh okay...I get it. You must have meant, "If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!" ;-)

[deadpirate]

SA-Drift

How come you guys don't have an English speaking mechanic? Not trying to be critical and I can understand budget constraints if that's the reason. Even if you did, even I'm a little confused by the rules reading them as is. The only reason I have a little clarity about it was by watching the latest Drift Zone where it was basically spelled out.

The team started out in japan, takatori and kawamra(the mechanic)have been together as a team for years

Everyone Else

My opinion, I agree with courantcom, fine them, allow them to compete for the rest of the year, modify the rules to define what's really allowed and have public VTS sheets. NASA, SCCA, and many other organizations have these rules in place for this reason. However, as the rules are currently written, SA-Drift did violate them, unfortunately from a translation issue.

Again, this is my opinion, but the course now should be fine SA, allow them to compete for the rest of the year, modify the rules to define what's really allowed and have public VTS sheets.

^^ this seems fair, where is formula D??

[OldSkool510]

This my first post on this thread. All I have to say is.....It's 4th of July guys...Chill out and have some fun with the family and friends.

[Bebop]

Cameron,

So why have you lost respect for Peak Perfomrnace, is it because I am keeping you accountable of your statement stating that the Nig**azzz at Peak are pissEDD, is that why? I had no idea this was going on til Monday night when other FD teams called and wondered why I was so upset. I honestly had no idea that this stuff was going on until you brought my name into all this. I had no choice but to post and let everyone know that I am not upset and I am sure that FD will do their best to keep this situation as fair as possible. Like I said, we have been involved with drift for quite some time and have felt that Formula D has been pretty good about being fair with everyone that competes.

Have you lost respect for my company because we called you out and asked to modify your post associating our company with the N word? I know that you are an African American and still a teeneager. But I don't think referring to anyone using the N word is appropriate nor does our company endorse that type of verbage. I am not asking you to like Peak Performance or endorse my product, but randomly just saying you lost respect for my company without explanation or reason makes no sense. I know that I started my company when you were 2 and we started drifting when you were probably 14 or 13. I know it is easy to talk sh*t about me or Bergenholtz racing sitting behind your computer, but just be aware that both of us have been doing this for a long time. Bergenholtz has been modifying cars for probably 16 years and been drag racing professionally for a long time, they understand the racer and the organizers. Have some respect for the old timers, we are the grand daddies here in America.

I understand that you want to be involved in all these threads to keep your post count high, but don't bring my company up unless you know directly that we are upset. Your statement of us being upset regarding Team SA is completely false! I politely asked you to modify your statement and yet you continue to bring up my company. I hope the drifting.com community understands that blaze1 is the rantings of a 18 year old in Moreno Valley that just graduated high school that is constantly posting nonsense to keep his post count high.

You state "Guys are kinda sounding like babies.... "obey the rules, dont like the rules leave". " - Well Cam, who sounds like babies, the guys saying there are rules and we need to abide by them or guys asking for rules to be changed because their team mechanics cannot properly understand english and created a car that is not legal in our series according to the Chief Steward? I am not trying to fuel the fire in regards to this whole Team SA issue, I just want these guys to try to find a solution so they can race. I feel that alot of people are just here fanning the fire and posting nonsense.

Bottom line there is a problem according to FD, if they want it changed, then it needs to be changed or suffer the consequences. Both Bergenholtz and Peak does not benefit to see such a badass car run in our series. This is not for self benefit, both Bergenholtz racing and Peak do not receive any benefits to see Team SA run. For all I care, don't fix and quit the series. My team needs all the help it can get.


See you in Las Vegas, its going to be HOT!

Eddie Kim

I Whole heartidly appologize you thought my comments at the beggining of this thread were serious. I'm sorry other people called you thinking that this was serious and you had to take out time to get my post eddited. I just brought peak up because you guys are probably the biggest aftermarket suspension company with a team. You should half way feel flatterd.

They pushed the power rack back 6 inches and they welded the knuckles

XXX EDITED

]All jokes aside, Formula D just isn't strong enough for a driver like takatori to dominate in there series.

You could have came on here PMed me and asked what my post was about.

You could have just contacted the admin and asked them to edit my post
and be gone.

But you came on here and made your self look much worse, with you teams name *smh*.

And wholeheartedly... if you look back in the posts regarding your team I have always supported you guys.

Nashida ripped up D1: Support
Peak Acquiring Joon: Support
Peak Switching over to hankook : Support

And not just congratulations... good luck peak. But I get excited when I hear about your guyses team. And I'm a little sanded that Joon or Robbie arent doing that good this year, but it seems like it mostly stems from improper setup. I'm pretty confident that you guys will work it out though .

As far as I'm a black 18 year old who just graduated highschool who uses the N word yadayada yada. Once again, it was a joke. Why would I try to be a post whore and a practically half way dead forum. This is probably the biggest thread of the year and if you notice the same damn 7 people are posting on it.

With that being said, let everyone and drifting.com know what I've been saying the last few years. I'm on here because I'm a fan, not a insider, not a driver, not even a want to be driver. I'm just a guy who loves the sport, I'm just a loyal fan. And guess what, there are a million more just like me. The ones who really kinda keep this sport going.

There's always going to be the kids who save up half a years earning just to buy parts for they're ugly *Censored**Censored**Censored* cars. Take em to drift days or drift around there local industrial park, smash em then do it again. Thats all I am, I got my favorite teams and drivers. And I have a opinion about what goes on in the sport and I express it on here.

Now I will state it again why I lost respect for you guys. It sounds like to me you want SA to leave the series, it seems like you have little sympathy for the team getting pushed around for no good reason. Yea its for a reason, but for a good reason??? I dont like the idea of having a teams rolling around the pits looking for cars to single out for suspension violations.

Where is all the comradery, If I was a team owner or a driver I would be trying to help the team out. You guys need to band together and work for a just cause, formula d shouldn't have all the say so, stick up for your fellow competitor. The rules are just really unfair right now, and all you guys have to say is "For all I care, don't fix and quit the series. My team needs all the help it can get. "

You heard it here first, peak performance doesent like competition.

Like I said before, Formula D needs a driver union. You never know, your team can be next.

Good luck with the rest of your season

Happy Fourth

See ya in Vegas!

[_PG_]

F1 has the GPDA (Grand Prix Drivers Association), and most other major series have something similar. For sure Formula Drift drivers should do the same. Make your voices heard in the right way about all issues: Safety, Regs, Judging, etc.

[deadpirate]

see you in vegas blaze. feel free to stop by the toyo rig and say hello!

[MonkeySlide]

I knew this was going to happen sooner or later...

Behold children...we've made autoblog: http://www.autoblog.com/2008/07/04/d...a-d-rule-book/

[Justin Banner]

The team started out in japan, takatori and kawamra(the mechanic)have been together as a team for years

Ah, ok. You don't want to ruin a good tech/driver lineup, so that makes much more sense.

[OldSkool510]

F1 has the GPDA (Grand Prix Drivers Association), and most other major series have something similar. For sure Formula Drift drivers should do the same. Make your voices heard in the right way about all issues: Safety, Regs, Judging, etc.

This makes the most sense. All professional entities have unions/associations.

Rather than airing out your grievances on a public forum, you guys who are actually in the industry and have an actual interest in the matter should form a union/association of some sort and approach Formula D with it. It would make sense for them to allow the voices of their drivers and teams to be heard in order to assist in advancing the sport of drifting.

Like it or not, you guys all need each other. FORMULA D FTW.