(FEEDBACK) FORMULA D Irwindale 2008

[JustAFan]

The original question

I have a question how did Bill's qualifying score go from this

Bill Sherman - 68mph entry, high on the bank and crazy entry angle, looks as if hes gonna spin but countersteers and comes into the inner bank close to the wall. Scores a 90

to this?

09. Bill sherman - 88.25

[Brian]

Maybe the judges didn't want him to go any farther so they lowered the score?

[J.Herron]

As far as the way media things went, I thought it was really smooth.

Didn't have any hassles or anything like that. Got all the shots I was looking for.

For my first trip out to Irwindale I thought it was pretty good. Of course I didn't agree with the judging...but nobody really does. Some of those qual. scores were down right disrespectful.

Perfect example that everyone has been talking about was Tony Angelo's second qual. run. In which I think he scored a high 70 or something? I have the second half of that run on tape showing him ripping through the course faster than most of the dudes out there who did qualify high. AND he was dead on the clips.

I don't get it.

Also, some of those "One more times" were ridiculous and should not have even been considered. I understand that the fans come to get a show, but that kind of stuff just isn't right.

[BigGameHit]

damn i need to experience this madness... sounds crazy.

[Nixon]

Paper Airplanes= OK

Condoms= WTF? i took my parents and my girl and that was just ridiculous

like all of you i didnt agree with some of the judging but thats typical

oh and a big one, Formula D should really put a disclaimer bout the tire smoke & DEBRIS... while in line to get into the event, the cars were practicing, we were litteraly being showered with rubber marbles and gagged by tire smoke... so maybe no practice while people wait in line, although i must admit it was cool as hell to watch the cars in action that close

i had no other problems with smokers or security, although there was a very roudy crowd next to us, section 7 i think, couldnt tell what was goin on

[eomund240]

we were litteraly being showered with rubber marbles and gagged by tire smoke

I loved that though

[Formula D]

FYI, there is a disclaimer before you enter the track and on every ticket.

Bill Sherman's score was noticed. Programming error. We caught that.

This was also the the first event the track wanted us to do reserved sectional seating. We feel they did not provide enough security or ushers and this is something we are addressing with them. Our parents were in the stand too so we heard it. This was again the largest event ever to take place at Irwindale. At 7:30 there was standing room only so if we continue to grow this needs to be addressed. However, what we did to try and clear space was give wristband holders track access. Imagine if we gave them seats too. It would have been worse. All things considered this is another sign that the state of drifting is healthy and growing even in a poor economy. Mad props to the drivers who are the paint on the canvas we provide. They deserve the credit to putting on a sick show and consistently pushing it. Personally, guys like JTP are amazing additions to the series. Awesome competitor, awesome attitude, great guy. JR killed it all week(end) long. He was due and did it at a perfect time. Amazing season....


....now on to Red Bull

[JustAFan]

Well thanks FD that really cleared that up. What a joke!

[Formula D]

Well thanks FD that really cleared that up.

Ok, well what else can we answer for you then?

[MonkeySlide]

Ok, well what else can we answer for you then?

I dont think he saw the part where you said the issue with the score was a programming error.

[JustAFan]

I did see that it was a programming error. But was his score not suppose to be a 90 or was it a programming error when his score was imputed in the seeding?

[JTP]

Mad props to the drivers who are the paint on the canvas we provide. They deserve the credit to putting on a sick show and consistently pushing it. Personally, guys like JTP are amazing additions to the series. Awesome competitor, awesome attitude, great guy.

Thank you Formula D, i'm proud to be an addition to the Formula D roster.

I'm glad i made it into the red bull event with a podium finish to end the 09 FD series, and i'm definitely looking forward to the 2009 Formula Drift season!

Thanks again, and see u guys at the Port of LB!

[eomund240]

FYI, there is a disclaimer before you enter the track and on every ticket.

Bill Sherman's score was noticed. Programming error. We caught that.

This was also the the first event the track wanted us to do reserved sectional seating. We feel they did not provide enough security or ushers and this is something we are addressing with them. Our parents were in the stand too so we heard it. This was again the largest event ever to take place at Irwindale. At 7:30 there was standing room only so if we continue to grow this needs to be addressed. However, what we did to try and clear space was give wristband holders track access. Imagine if we gave them seats too. It would have been worse. All things considered this is another sign that the state of drifting is healthy and growing even in a poor economy. Mad props to the drivers who are the paint on the canvas we provide. They deserve the credit to putting on a sick show and consistently pushing it. Personally, guys like JTP are amazing additions to the series. Awesome competitor, awesome attitude, great guy. JR killed it all week(end) long. He was due and did it at a perfect time. Amazing season....


....now on to Red Bull

I'm happy to see that you guys look at this. I was wondering if you could consiter the seperation of judge idea for the individual runs. I would just take away any doubt that someone might be throwing scores.

Can't wait to be at long beach in a few weeks

[MonkeySlide]

Our parents were in the stand too

This is a little off topic but just out of curiousity...what do your parents think of drifting?

[Formula D]

I did see that it was a programming error. But was his score not suppose to be a 90 or was it a programming error when his score was imputed in the seeding?

It was a programming error that reported his score as an 88.25 or when it was really a 90. We have the original hard copies to catch errors like this if they happen.

I'm happy to see that you guys look at this. I was wondering if you could consiter the seperation of judge idea for the individual runs. I would just take away any doubt that someone might be throwing scores.

We can separate them and have considered that, but in all honesty it would not make a difference at all in the scores. It might be a surprise to you, but the judges do not talk during qualifying at all. They do not have time. The calculations they are doing based on their assessment of the run does not allow them time to speak even if they wanted to. Additionally, there is no way they could steal any other judges score either because the fact that they are jotting down deductions as they see the run, their score is already decided by the time the run ends. So as the run ends they take down notes (so if the drivers have any questions they can refer to their notes as a tool for remembering) and then it is right into the calculator to add up the points. This process is tedious but a necessary step so everyone can know that each judge is scoring the run on their own and so that each judge can stand by their score if the driver has any questions afterward. At Irwindale there were a few drivers that had questions about their run and rather than having to call up on memory, judges can refer to their score book notes and walk them through the specifics of speed, angle, line, etc.

As a blanket statement, the variance you see in the scores is a natural, subjective difference between each judge. When it gets concerning is if the variance gets too wide. This comes from judges knowingly or unknowingly valuing points differently than another judge. For example, if you are using a points scale of 1-10 for part of a run, a 5 would be equivalent to 50%. 50% would be an F in school, but 5 out of 10 or 50% is actually a middle ground score, a C for argument sake. So it is important that each judge value the numbers the same. It's ok if one judge thinks Driver A got a 6 but another judge thinks it was a 5. That's part of the subjective nature of this sport.

We have 5 years of judging systems under our belt. We have tried so many different things and have incorporated so much of what the drivers have asked for. Personally, I believe it can always get better and it will. As a fan we all see things differently than others. This message board is a great example of that, but we have taken great steps to consistently make things better, more consistent and more transparent. The judges really do care that things make sense.

Thanks for all the feedback.