(FEEDBACK) FORMULA D ATLANTA May 8-9th 2009

[J-Rod]

WOW!!!
Best event in the history of drifting...
Seriously Top 3 if not THE TOP event ever, just amazing driving, progressive skill and style but to address what my world includes would be the AMAZING fans, Atlanta Area fans you guys and gals are so enthusiastic, if it's alcohol infused or not, you stayed until the end!

Thank you to each and every one of you, I can't please everybody but I tell you what I had a blast and ATL does receive from ME THE BEST FORMULA DRIFT CROWD EVER!!!!!

So let's see if Jersey, Vegas, Seattle(who was the BEST until this event) and of course Sonoma and THE House of Drift can represent their region in the months to come...

Bottomline, without YOU the fans, of course the drivers, the teams, the sponsors and of course the willing and able Formula Drift staff NONE of this would possible, it's amazing in a "tight economy" we had the LARGEST FD ATL event EVER!

Thank you and congrats to Chris, D-Mac and Tuerck for receiving their FD APR Performance carbin fiber trophies....

Peace and see ya'll in Jersey...

BTW, the Twitter communication was pretty cool,
I'm at www.twitter.com/jarodcapitala
+ www.twitter.com/formuladrift

[J.Herron]

Yeah dude, the twitter communication was illin'

I felt like I was there and caught myself at times getting all antsy while following all the feeds. Sounds like I picked the wrong event to skip out on!! haha

See you all in New Jersey!

[courantcom]

Patrick Mordaunt impressed the hell out of me big time. Seriously, this kid is for real. It was unfortunate that he got DQ'd. More will come out on this I and we will in the proper forum, but that is why we treat FD just like any other high level motor sport and not a wild wild west with no rules or enforcement. That aside, Pat killed it as well as all the other guys. A new level of drifting has happened and what I am seeing now is a true treat. Having seen every single run personally the past 6 years, never have I seen so many unbelievable runs and the addition of top 32 tandem is possibly one of the best decisions we have made. There were naysayers that were critical of it, but now it is clear that 32 rank and number 1 will put on a sick show. No doubt about it.

ATL, you guys are amazing!

Has the "proper forum" started yet? Formula D, You have rules...and obvious enforcement. Can you fill us in as to exactly why P. Mordaunt was DQ'ed? He says its tires...everyone says it's tires. I don't wanna listen to anyone else other than the people that DQ'ed him.

I'll wait for the proper forum...just don't take too long or other "fanalysis" type people will just start one on their own.

[Formula D]

Has the "proper forum" started yet? Formula D, You have rules...and obvious enforcement. Can you fill us in as to exactly why P. Mordaunt was DQ'ed? He says its tires...everyone says it's tires. I don't wanna listen to anyone else other than the people that DQ'ed him.

I'll wait for the proper forum...just don't take too long or other "fanalysis" type people will just start one on their own.
__________________

Pat is not lying, nor is everyone else. He was DQ'd for tires. While the entire summation is not for a public board, the bottom line is that his tires (along with every other pairing in the top 16 after their two successive runs) were durometer tested. His came in at a level of 44 which is 5 points higher than the legal limit. Now many people are going to say that other drivers tested below the level set by the chief steward so they should have been dq'd as well. We that would be true except the fact that both of those situations those tires that came in under the level both lost their run so it was moot.

Let me first state the Patrick Mordaunt is a stand-up guy and not someone I believe would do anything intentionally illegal to gain an advantage. For some reason or another he tested well below the legal limit. I am not a scientist and can't say why. He was using old/used tires from last year and perhaps the chemical make-up had changed. I don't know.

Rules get put in place for many reasons, one of which is to keep costs down relative to the growth of drifting. So if a competitor like Pat who is trying to save $ by using a used tire gets DQ'd for having an extremely low durometer it is possible that we have exposed a situation where duromoter readings (softness, hardness of the tire) should be looked at in a different way in the context of tire eligibility. I should add that the number "49" that is in the rulebook came from two years of testing competitors tires at random and in all types of different conditions: new, used, hot, cold, different tracks etc. 49 was the low of the numbers we saw, not the average. Until this year we had never seen tires consistently come close or lower than that number. Why?

[courantcom]

Pat is not lying, nor is everyone else. He was DQ'd for tires. While the entire summation is not for a public board, the bottom line is that his tires (along with every other pairing in the top 16 after their two successive runs) were durometer tested.

As everyone with access to the internet can educate themselves, there are several different ways to obtain a false reading with regards to a durometer. Several variables have to be constant in order to setup a platform where one tire can be compared fairly against another. I can't imagine accurate enough readings were obtained from individuals who would have a hard time trying to spell the word "durometer". They would have to have a calibrated hand to apply the same amount of pressure on each and every tire that comes off the track. It would make a total difference in numbers if the driver were to keep the tires spinning well past the finish line vs another driver that just rolls past the finish line. I would hate to have seen someone like P. Mordaunt be disqualified because of a false reading by an unqualified "technician". People like Pat spend thousands of dollars to make it to your events. It's like someone spending thousands of dollars getting a show car ready for an event, and then having a 14 year old kid come to judge it wondering what in the world is a Kharman-Ghia. What I'm saying is that maybe too much responsibility was laid upon a single random individual that now totally decides who stays and who leaves.

His came in at a level of 44 which is 5 points higher than the legal limit. Now many people are going to say that other drivers tested below the level set by the chief steward so they should have been dq'd as well. We that would be true except the fact that both of those situations those tires that came in under the level both lost their run so it was moot.

Are all four tires inspected, or just the rears?

Let me first state the Patrick Mordaunt is a stand-up guy and not someone I believe would do anything intentionally illegal to gain an advantage. For some reason or another he tested well below the legal limit. I am not a scientist and can't say why. He was using old/used tires from last year and perhaps the chemical make-up had changed. I don't know.

I can confirm that the tires he used were from last year, and they were used (not new and in storage). They were more than likely improperly stored (outdoors), and just thrown in the truck for additional tires to run your event. Usually tires get harder when they get older...I don't think tires are line fine wines which get better with age.

Rules get put in place for many reasons, one of which is to keep costs down relative to the growth of drifting. So if a competitor like Pat who is trying to save $ by using a used tire gets DQ'd for having an extremely low durometer it is possible that we have exposed a situation where duromoter readings (softness, hardness of the tire) should be looked at in a different way in the context of tire eligibility. I should add that the number "49" that is in the rulebook came from two years of testing competitors tires at random and in all types of different conditions: new, used, hot, cold, different tracks etc.

Really? I've never seen any kind of testing ever done for the past two years on tires of the cars right after they complete their run. The cars always go straight back to their hot pit right after they complete their run. If you were doing your testing after the cars have returned to the hot pits, I think the readings will be different. Can another driver chime in and attest to what Formula D is saying? ...as in, have they ever experienced durometer testing prior to this recent Atlanta event?

49 was the low of the numbers we saw, not the average. Until this year we had never seen tires consistently come close or lower than that number. Why?

You guys previously approved brands of tires along with product lines within those brands. Only specific tires are allowed to be used at your events, and you have provided an exacting list. For example, competitors can not use anything in the Dunlop product line. Only particular types of the Toyo brand are allowed. Only particular types of Federal Tires are allowed.

Are you going to start allowing any brand of tires to run in your events so as long as they meet your durometer readings?

[Formula D]

Victor, if you really have questions that you want answered, you should just call my office and I'd be happy to talk with you one on one. I'd love to have an open and honest dialogue with you in the right environment not one in which you say the following regarding a 6 year FD tech: "I can't imagine accurate enough readings were obtained from individuals who would have a hard time trying to spell the word "durometer".

[courantcom]

Victor, if you really have questions that you want answered, you should just call my office and I'd be happy to talk with you one on one. I'd love to have an open and honest dialogue with you in the right environment not one in which you say the following regarding a 6 year FD tech: "I can't imagine accurate enough readings were obtained from individuals who would have a hard time trying to spell the word "durometer".

I'll call your office if I have questions as to when load-in is, or when the race cars need to be there. I'll also call your office to find out who I need to rent the golf carts from, or where the host hotel is. I'll even call your office if someone approaches me wanting to setup a vendor booth or sponsor your events.

When it comes down to your openly available rules, procedures, and practices...I'd like to discuss that here - in the open, where everyone can see. I'm not talking about issues pertaining to a single team/person here. Maybe I just pull up specific examples (teams) here and there just to clarify a situation. Overall, I'm just trying to understand the tire issue. Maybe after some public dialogue, everyone will understand your tire rules. It seems like it's an important thing to understand since cars can get completely disqualified because of it...instead of just being docked points and fines.

The people who were actually doing the physical durometer testing were some of your local volunteers. FD wasn't even around six years ago, and I think I knew everyone in your office when it started up five years ago (Slipstream).

[Swing Kid]

We that would be true except the fact that both of those situations those tires that came in under the level both lost their run so it was moot.

Shouldnt anyone that came under the level loose their points for the event? I believe that is more then fair. Also, this sort of thing should continue in Jersey to make sure teams are following the rules established by FD.

When did Barry Bonds start drifting by the way?

[Mr.Two]

From what I have seen, there is PLENTY of rule breaking that goes on.
At round 1, a majority of the field should have been disqualified.

I know you guys want to make drifting more and more legitimate, so please consider enforcing ALL of the rules instead of some, sometimes.


You are on your way to doing very well (and you HAVE done very well already), but in MY opinion, set rules and follow them, or just don't make them in the first place.

Agreed.

When it comes down to your openly available rules, procedures, and practices...I'd like to discuss that here - in the open, where everyone can see. Overall, I'm just trying to understand the tire issue. Maybe after some public dialogue, everyone will understand your tire rules. It seems like it's an important thing to understand since cars can get completely disqualified because of it...instead of just being docked points and fines.

FD wasn't even around six years ago.

Agreed again. courantcom isn't the only person asking questions about Pat being DQ'd and exactly why so this is exactly the right forum to be having this discussion.

[courantcom]

Shouldnt anyone that came under the level loose their points for the event? I believe that is more then fair. Also, this sort of thing should continue in Jersey to make sure teams are following the rules established by FD.

When did Barry Bonds start drifting by the way?

According to the example they set with Pat Mordaunt, anyone with "soft tires" should have been disqualified all together. It's like being laid-off or fired. Losing all points would have been just like getting laid-off. Being fired is like saying, "pack up your things...you're done". Pat got fired...while other people equally guilty may have just been laid-off. If Pat got fired, everyone should have been fired.

I wanna know if Formula D will reveal a list of TIRES (not drivers or teams) that they approved in their "Appendix C - Approved Tires" that failed their durometer testing procedure at Road Atlanta. Assuming that everyone's tires were unaltered, let's start making some headway here in this discussion and start uncovering some answers.

According to their conclusion with Pat Mordaunt, Toyo R1-R should NOT be legal then, even though it was legal all of last year, and is on their current Appendix C list. Every team using R1-R should have been disqualified. Factory supported R1-R cars were both RWD Scions, the Hyundai (had R1-R on the fronts), and Bridges car (Takatori).

In addition...why did Formula D wait until Pat Mordaunt beat Joon Maeng in the top 16 to tell him he was DQ'ed? Why didn't they tell him he was disqualified as soon as he arrived at the event? It's like they were surprised he did so well...they gotta chop him down before he actually has a real chance of winning...OMG! Heaven forbid that a privateer win...

Pat Mordaunt is not a Toyo sponsored vehicle. Just pretend he read Appendix C, went to the store and actually bought R1-R's and put them on his car. He would have been in trouble if he had bought a few of the tires also on that Appendix C list as well...so how's a racer supposed to know? Go buy a tire, test them with their own durometer, and see if they pass? What's the point of Appendix C then if only a handful of the list of 19 tires actually exceed 49 on the gauge?

Formula D must think that they were the only ones at the event with durometers in their tool boxes. ;-) Let's just say that people kinda measured things here and there as well on their own...and the results were somewhat shocking at times.

[courantcom]

This thing is gonna be like last year's suspension debacle, isn't it...

Hopefully, this time around, since the issue deals with MORE competitors, MORE people will talk about it, and voice their opinions.

[Formula D]

When it comes down to your openly available rules, procedures, and practices...I'd like to discuss that here - in the open, where everyone can see. I'm not talking about issues pertaining to a single team/person here. Maybe I just pull up specific examples (teams) here and there just to clarify a situation. Overall, I'm just trying to understand the tire issue. Maybe after some public dialogue, everyone will understand your tire rules. It seems like it's an important thing to understand since cars can get completely disqualified because of it...instead of just being docked points and fines.

We post on forums because we still feel very deeply connected to the grassroots and the core fans and like to still be a fan even though we run the events. We do it because most times people just want to know certain things and ask in a manner conducive to a nice dialogue and conversation.

I am happy to answer questions, but often your tone, sarcasm and sometimes disrespect doesn't provide us with much of a reason to respond. That being said some issues can just clearly not be understood or be eloquently displayed in the proper context or tone in an online forum but we will do our best to do what you'd like.

The people who were actually doing the physical durometer testing were some of your local volunteers. FD wasn't even around six years ago, and I think I knew everyone in your office when it started up five years ago (Slipstream)

Those readings were taken after each successive head-to-head in the top 16 on "hot tires" by Doug Artus, our starter, a veteran of the sport. Not a volunteer. Volunteers have taken readings in the past so I see how you might be confused.

FD wasn't even around six years ago, and I think I knew everyone in your office when it started up five years ago (Slipstream)

FD was started in August of 2003 which makes 5 years, 8 months old. That's pretty much 6 to me.

[courantcom]

We post on forums because we still feel very deeply connected to the grassroots and the core fans and like to still be a fan even though we run the events. We do it because most times people just want to know certain things and ask in a manner conducive to a nice dialogue and conversation.

Well, maybe a lot of the grassroot fans all want to participate in your future events, and they need to know that they're not going to get jacked when they actually start competing at your events. Maybe they are all watching and reading what goes on right here, right now.

I am happy to answer questions, but often your tone, sarcasm and sometimes disrespect doesn't provide us with much of a reason to respond. That being said some issues can just clearly not be understood or be eloquently displayed in the proper context or tone in an online forum but we will do our best to do what you'd like.

I introduce valid points...each with adequate reason to have you respond to. I try to keep my posts as entertaining as possible, but yet still packed with information.

Those readings were taken after each successive head-to-head in the top 16 on "hot tires" by Doug Artus, our starter, a veteran of the sport. Not a volunteer. Volunteers have taken readings in the past so I see how you might be confused.

I know Doug. Doug was the one that gently nudged me awake on Thursday morning when he came up to my truck while I parked overnight at the front entrance to Road Atlanta. Let me tell you...Doug was the perfect person to be the first person I saw that morning...you know, his glasses and all. Anyways, as the cars came back from the course, Doug directed the cars and told them to stop when it was time. He parked the cars side by side and held them there while other people actually went behind each of the rear tires and did their thing and wrote it down on clip boards. Then, maybe, Doug radio'ed the information to the tower.

FD was started in August of 2003 which makes 5 years, 8 months old. That's pretty much 6 to me.

The "6 years" part was a touch of my natural sarcasm... ;-) It's like when people ask me "what's up?"....I say "the sky".

[Mr.Two]

I am happy to answer questions, but often your tone, sarcasm and sometimes disrespect doesn't provide us with much of a reason to respond.

And your tone often comes off as arrogant as your trying to look like the only person who knows Anything at all.

Those readings were taken after each successive head-to-head in the top 16 on "hot tires" by Doug Artus, our starter, a veteran of the sport. Not a volunteer. Volunteers have taken readings in the past so I see how you might be confused.

FD was started in August of 2003 which makes 5 years, 8 months old. That's pretty much 6 to me.

Classic PR, and an attempt to answer only the most minimal questions, reply to statements off the true topic at hand to avoid providing a real answer, and at the same time trying to make the people asking the questions wrong to discredit the validity of the topic.

[NNog]

And your tone often comes off as arrogant as your trying to look like the only person who knows Anything at all.




Classic PR, and an attempt to answer only the most minimal questions, reply to statements off the true topic at hand to avoid providing a real answer, and at the same time trying to make the people asking the questions wrong to discredit the validity of the topic.

dang... i'd be so pissed if anyone talked to me like that... well.. good thing i dont have to deal with all this drama. from the looks of things ATL was a great event other than this tire issue. I am sure everything will be figured out. wished i could have been out there watching this event live! being a poor college student sucks..