FORMULA DRIFT And Its Future, My View

[Slapshotnerd]

Boxmod - the closest thing to that is the demo during LB Grand Prix. Teams of 3 cars try to drift the streets of long beach course, being judged solely by the crowd reaction.

Unfortunately, you probably won't see much more beyond that. Back in '05 and '06, there were a lot more demos, but the people funding them (Namely Champ Car) are no longer around or no longer interested in the demos. Without some funding, they aren't likely to happen.

There are often test days on Thursdays before an FD event at the track, but they are closed to the public as there isn't any security / support for a spectator base.

[Formula D]

Back to the MMA comparison, you gotta be kidding me when you say the biggest success UFC had was the TUF show. It was a great regarding the fact it was a good crossover show, and was a darn good buildup for some of the greatest and not so great MMA bouts to occur. Then again I'm pretty darn sure the UFC wouldn't have died with out it. I still stand aside with you that the regulation of the sport was its biggest success on ALL spectrum's *hint hint hint*. But a close second was the decision to dismantle Pride FC *hint hint hint*. From a fans point of view (and I think you would agree) it was saddening to see them go but the US side of the sport benefited from it alot in the long run.

I don't want to get into a big MMA debate on a drifting forum, but what I am saying about TUF is not my opinion. It is historical and documented and as factual as you can get. The UFC was bleeding money and Lorenzo Fertitta even told Dana White to sell the UFC, then changed his mind, threw more money at the brand in form of TUF and the rest is history. In short, TUF was paramount to bringing the UFC to the mainstream and it's current popularity. You can look this up very easily, it's been documented, Dana White always says this himself and it has even been discussed by analysts within the MMA business on a CNBC feature on the growth and popularity of the UFC. Rule changes were not the primary reason for the popularity explosion of the UFC. To say otherwise is contradictory to all the facts of UFC history. As I stated, those rules were in place well before the explosion of the brand. The TUF show and critical mass for the UFC are parallels. The UFC says this, analysts say this so....

What you are saying, while probably important in the overall success of the UFC, pails in comparison and magnitude to the new fans TUF created. Before TUF, UFC could only be seen on PPV, so by default you had to be a relatively core fan who ordered. After TUF, PPV's went up, more fight cards were developed, more fighters came threw the ranks and of course competitive organizations developed. Anyway, enough about the UFC

To your point about regulation...Regulations are important of course. Amongst other things, what regulations can allow is competitive environments conducive to mass appeal, if indeed the the sport has mass appeal, a la UFC. Poor regulations can have a counter affect. So, you are right, they play an important role, but are not fundamentally what makes a sport popular. To be concise, what FD desires is the most competitive and amazing show that we can possibly create. We will make changes where necessary to do that.

Hey FD, what is that 130VID thingy, and is the rumor that adoption of an SCCA type <8 year newness requirement for car things going to happen?

Each car in FD has a Vehicle Identification Number. Those cars under 130 are chassis' that are being retired due to those builders choosing to work off a provision in our rulebook that allowed for small unibody mods and such. Most being, "pre-approved" if you remember all of that. We no longer allow that so the pre-130 cars had two years to conform. There are a handful of cars under 130, but most of the field is not.

I'm not sure what SCCA thing you are referring to.... Can you explain so I can answer better?

[Bebop]

I'm not sure what SCCA thing you are referring to.... Can you explain so I can answer better?

Its not a entire SCCA rule, just a rule in world challenge and one other class I think. The rule basically states you must run a chassis 10 years old or younger. Pretty clear its because World Challenge is there premier series, not for technical or safety reasons.

You may be right about that the whole TUF, but how is that a parallel to drifting at this point. Dana White could have sold of his share in 2003 and someone else could have came up with another gimmick. I personally feel that the TUF decision or something like it was bound to happen somewhere down the line. But you know and I know that FD is not in UFC's 2004, its not even close its more like in its 1994. Like I said, the only reason why I posted was to show not only D1GP fans are disappointed with FD.

i dont agree that everyone is doggin the qualifying. some guys are new, nervous as hell and YES they want to make top32. There is also many people developing new chassis and/or know there is a weakness and have to work around that. There are plenty of people that are trying to jump the skill gap from ProAm to FD and its larger than it should be, thats why ProAm programs like XDC are so important to our sport.

I disagree, I know that you are a aspiring driver and feel for some of these new guys. But alot of these cupcakes out here driving like stick figures aren't rookies. I don't even see the rookies as a issue, I'm looking at some of these 3-6 year veterans, just going through the motions it seems. And alot of the guys driving new cars are ripping them, Mike Essa and Conrad for instance. Both 100% new chassis, never been drifted on any level, Essas car didn't even show up to SEMA IIRC. But both those cars are very well built and the drivers aren't afraid to throw down exciting runs with them. Shoot, throw in Sam's ugly challenger into that equation as well, its big, red, and ugly but its well built and beat on like a deaf hooker! I'm sorry but champions are never scared or timid, they perform under pressure and outperform when there is none. And the drivers on top of the series are good examples of that. I'm sorry but if your idea of "winning" is being mediocre, I think one needs to rethink their reasons for competing.

Rest in peace 2008.

[my 1 88 u]

2 of my favorite things. MMA and Drifting. It is scary how much Formula D and UFC have in common. Both are ran by bald headed white guys, have stoner announcers, more restrictive than the Japanese counter parts but arguably more successful because of it, judgement system that favors control over willingness to finish.

I've been to every single Drift Atlanta and I have to say it gets better year after year. My only gripe is I fell in love with drifting because it was a dog fight every run. Nowadays it's more like synchronized swimming. Bring back cutting into lines and forced passing. As long as it's side ways I could care less if it was a "shallow line".

[OldSkool510]

What FD and UFC DO NOT have in common is the separation of classes. A V10 powered car should not be competing against a 4 cylinder SR20 in a championship race. That's like Brock Lesnar (heavyweight, 6'3" , 265 lbs) fighting against Frankie Edgar (lightweight, 5'6" , 155 lbs).

Yes, it might be interesting to watch, but the driver in the more heavily powered car just has too many inherent advantages. Who would win this draw? Dai Yoshihara in his S13 with a V8 swap or Dai Yoshihara in his S13 with an SR20?

[Bebop]

oldskool510

Obviously I agree... But I do think everyone should tandem against each other. But awards should be given by class as well. And it will definitely open alot of opportunities for alot of new drivers and potential teams (and cut others off at the knees). It makes it kinda like multi class racing... your obstacles are sometimes unrelated to your goal.

But yeah, qualifying should definitely be broken up into classes and be awarded accordingly.

I will post a thread about this probably after irwindale I think I will call it.

"Blaze1's Drift Dream"

[boxmod]

My idea of competition is not mediocrity, its knowing your opponent and being smart. Close tandem requires a good amount of trust in the OTHER driver.

You ever watch other racing? Sometimes its better to hold strong at 2nd or 3rd or even 5th than force a pass and wreck out. Drag cars sometimes dont even finish a 5 second run to save the motor, because its no good to turn a great time and blow up. In our sport, its not getting super close to the guy driving a little sketchy. Its not wussing out, its points toward a championship for your team and sponsors.

You can win a championship by consistency of finishing near the top, and not winning a single event in any racing discipline. I'm NOT saying don't go for the win everytime out, but there are smart and dumb ways to compete as you work though the field.

I agree, I love watching close tandems and all that too man.

[mannynj]

The problem I see with that I4 chasing that v8 is the gap that all that power is the v8 is going to have, and on the judge's eyes that's more important than angle and or style, even if taka have a perfect run he will never catch up with one of falkens creatures, and he will never win unless they make a big mistake, BIG MISTAKE.
I do think the judging is horrible. Seattle's top 32 was just disgusting. and I do agree with blaze1, they should allow passing like in D1, it will make it more exiting to watch, and I think it will give the little guys a fighting chance, to go and try to pass those ugly looking pile of disguised tubes on steroids on those stupid wide lines.
I also agree with Tanner Foust, I am too, disappointed with Gardela for going with the V8. they were doing so good with that fantastically built ecotech.

Pretty soon they gonna be drifting on a straight line.

bring back takatori on a skyline (with an RB26) not and LS swap or any v8, and please somebody get Aasbo a Supra that can actually stay together by itself.

[OldSkool510]

Strategy is always part of any competition, no matter which sport you play. Close tandems is the main reason why I go to drifting events. All I'm trying to say is that there used to be more consistent "close" tandems before all these huge engine swaps.

Ross Petty is one of my favorite drivers. His best event was probably last year's D1 event in Anaheim. Why? He was able to compete against other drivers in his own "weight" class.

Hey mannynj - Maybe FD should stand for FORMULA DRAG. lol

[boxmod]

manny, FD already made the comment that passing is allowed- as long as you arent forcing the lead driver off line to do it.

the gaps are there because some people havent sold their souls to the devil and gone v8. my soul is happily burning away. dont complain about someones motor being more powerful if its a LEGAL option in a competition. I cant goto the drag races and run straight up against a top fuel dragster and say its not fair, he has a bigger motor. However, sometimes people run too small of a tire for their power, thus having little grip and getting walked away from. I mean I've seen 400hp cars running on 225s- wtf. The whole point of going up in power is being able to manhandle bigger tires for more speed, grip, and smoke.

if you REALLY dont want to go big, or build that I4 to the gills.... watch or drive and practices and demos. I wonder how much the true difference is in power to weight ratios on some of the FD field.

[mannynj]

FD also said:
"FD currently does not allow tube chassis' of any kind, nor do we intend too any time soon"
only 99% is allow.
So, ok. passing is allow. but u must follow and mimic the lead car wherever it goes without going off line. Now, how do i pass???
D1 does not have that V8 fever and they still better and not only the drifting it's overall a way better show for the fans. (a corolla could actually win)
but V8s or not, the judging just sucks, and i think thats bigger problem.

[Edgar]

I want to see spaceships drift.

[Slapshotnerd]

I also agree with Tanner Foust, I am too, disappointed with Gardela for going with the V8. they were doing so good with that fantastically built ecotech.

The proof is in the pudding.

When they started that program, they only had 1 podium and 1 top-4 finish in the 'street car'. They moved to the more competitive chassis and bookended the season with wins, along with a podium and a pair of top 8's to finish 2nd overall. This year, Tuerck starts off with 3 straight top 8 finishes, and a 2nd place on the 1 track on the season that has the longest consecutive on-throttle section and has historically given cars with smaller motors and less horsepower good results (EOS podium, Dai in the S15, Taka Aono top qualifier in unseeded, Seigo Yamamoto's Chaser, etc). His losses were to Ryuji Miki (Long Beach), JR (Atl), and Tanner (NJ and Seattle). 3-of-4 losses were to big V8's with endless torque.

Gardella moves to V8, and hits a podium in his 2nd event. Although he still lost to JR in both of the events since (top 16 in Vegas, Final in Sonoma), that car is a LOT more competitive now in tandem than it was before. Again, those big V8's can find a slower section of the track, slow down a few more MPH than normal, then gas out of it and put a huge gap on the opponent. It's the way to win in FD these days.

I loved the 4 cylinder that Gardella built, especially since there's essentially a "cookbook" to produce that same motor available from GM at any dealership. I think the Solstice will become the "240" for newer kids learning to drift in 2-3 years. But Gardella is a results-oriented team, and the 4cyl just wasn't as competitive as the 8 anymore.

[OldSkool510]

The proof is in the pudding.

Again, those big V8's can find a slower section of the track, slow down a few more MPH than normal, then gas out of it and put a huge gap on the opponent. It's the way to win in FD these days.

But Gardella is a results-oriented team, and the 4cyl just wasn't as competitive as the 8 anymore.

So are you saying that the lesser powered cars are at a disadvantage in the Championship series?

I remember bringing up the topic about this before and got shot down for doing so. I want drifting to be about the "SKILLZ" of the driver. It seems like whenever the lower ranked drivers improve their skillz and close the gap between them and the higher ranked drivers, something always comes up that prevents them from leveling the playing field......and it's usually $$$$$$$$$$$$.

Realistically, only about 5-8 teams are competitive year in and year out in FD, and those are the heavily sponsored ones. They have the resources to maintain their competitive advantage, which is a disadvantage for the others.

As much as I woild like to see the motorsport of drifting grow, I think FD is banking too much on these few teams to continue the growth of drifting. There is just too much of an "equipment" advantage for those that can afford it.

[mannynj]

The proof is in the pudding.

When they started that program, they only had 1 podium and 1 top-4 finish in the 'street car'. They moved to the more competitive chassis and bookended the season with wins, along with a podium and a pair of top 8's to finish 2nd overall. This year, Tuerck starts off with 3 straight top 8 finishes, and a 2nd place on the 1 track on the season that has the longest consecutive on-throttle section and has historically given cars with smaller motors and less horsepower good results (EOS podium, Dai in the S15, Taka Aono top qualifier in unseeded, Seigo Yamamoto's Chaser, etc). His losses were to Ryuji Miki (Long Beach), JR (Atl), and Tanner (NJ and Seattle). 3-of-4 losses were to big V8's with endless torque.

Gardella moves to V8, and hits a podium in his 2nd event. Although he still lost to JR in both of the events since (top 16 in Vegas, Final in Sonoma), that car is a LOT more competitive now in tandem than it was before. Again, those big V8's can find a slower section of the track, slow down a few more MPH than normal, then gas out of it and put a huge gap on the opponent. It's the way to win in FD these days.

I loved the 4 cylinder that Gardella built, especially since there's essentially a "cookbook" to produce that same motor available from GM at any dealership. I think the Solstice will become the "240" for newer kids learning to drift in 2-3 years. But Gardella is a results-oriented team, and the 4cyl just wasn't as competitive as the 8 anymore.

Sooo, now that u said that, we can all agree that speed will give u the win in FD, rather than skills.
And im not saying that they dont have skills. That would be stupid for me to say, but even a highly talented driver like Tuerk couldn't win because of speed. He did great last year with the 4 cylinder, but not to this year's judging.
so you are telling me that until Taka drop a 5.0 on his corolla he will never win?