(FEEDBACK) FORMULA D - Evergreen Speedway - Monroe WA 2012

[sidekick]

I like people getting upset when Daigo gets knocked out, it just shows the bias some people have towards him, they really believe he honestly can do no wrong. He was struggling to put in clean runs all weekend.

If the judges said they should enter at the first corner at the same time, which is how it SHOULD be, this isn't drag racing remember, then that is the lead drivers job to ensure that happens, whilst the chase driver is absolutely nailing it behind them. This has been a problem several times with Daigo from what I can see. Funnily enough there are many videos online of Daigo pacing from the line in D1 - in fact they seem to set off in a very relaxed manner, no drag race starts, yet still with blistering entry speeds. There are drivers doing this correctly in FD, node Odi (400hp) vs Essa (700+hp), Odi entering too close to Essa in the top 32 - no blasting away by the lead driver.

To ensure this happens, they should move the cone to be about 5 car lengths in front of the first corner, and give a much larger run up area. There is only really jersey and maybe irwindale where they would struggle for extra space. Then, they have plenty of time to pace up to the first corner and everyone can enter fast.

Also, I can't believe the reason Saito spun is because of 2 extra starts when he has been flat to the floor with 900hp for the entire bank for two runs before hand. That's just clutching at straws. If that is the case Daigo is gunna struggle for tire wear at Irwindale with his current setup. Everyone makes mistakes, this was his. Conrad had a gangsta run anyway.

Question for Conrad if he posts again; Will you be trying to increase your vehicles ability to accelerate/decelerate quickly during drift for next year? It looks like you are really struggling to rapidly close in on people cos it takes so long for your car to respond, same with braking. Tyler's Camaro looks much quicker to respond. I'm not sure the weight brackets you are both in. I believe Diago's car is pretty heavy going by his tire size and his car seems to really pounce when he wants it too, although obviously he has a ridiculous amount of grip in that car.

A piece of feedback for FD is that stupid yellow line business. How can you realistically decide if someone has 2 wheels out when you are viewing replays from the wrong side of the car? Why was there not a FD official sat on the inside of that corner with a cheap Camera zoomed in on the inside of that corner. Call him a linesman or something, he can verify it for the judges. A video was posted of J.Lowe vs JTP and to me it looks very suspect, he was definitely still touching the yellow line. These teams are putting a lot of money on the line and the judges are using a camera angle where they have to just imagine where the inside rear tire was by looking through the car. Moronic. Painted line boundaries are not reliable, I understand the dangers of putting concrete walls on the outside of that corner, but next year it would be nice to see some sort of plastic barrier or foam barrier as per D1/ FD Abu Dhabi. You could also argue that the drivers have just been up against a concrete wall at ~80mph, if there was a concrete barrier on the outside of that corner i'm sure they could manage to stay out of it, especially since FD likes to argue this is the worlds premier drifting series.

Also, I understand there is official stuff going on in the background, but I swear sometimes there are massive gaps (time wise) between lead and chase run and it seems really unnecessary. It seems to be getting worse and things really drag out. This is the same between battles. Cars are waiting on the line for ages and nothing appears to be happening. There must be a way to speed it up, it's not very engaging for the viewer to just be sat there staring at nothing happening in what is an action sport. I understand the judges want to look over the replays and what not but sometimes it seems a bit excessive, watching replays multiple times before making a decision. Surely this could be sped up a little? It seems like the judges NEED to watch the replays several times to make a decision. This should surely only be the case when something excessively wrong or suspect (like brake checking) happens. If this is the case, maybe they should bring some technology to the table. I believe the king of europe series is a feeder series for FD now. They use an automated judging system:

http://www.kingofeurope.net/2012/ind...rift/telemetry

Perhaps this system should be tested for FD to bring some facts to the runs. It states a 10cm accuracy. Obviously the judges could still be used for deciding factors on style or special cases etc, but it seems like this would be a good tool to bring forward the legitimacy of the speed/angle/line aspect of drifting, or at least be a good backup system for the judges to be able to look down and say "driver A's total angle during the run gave this score, whilst driver B's line following precision gave this score..." rather than watching replays endlessly. I'm sure it could be setup to give the correct score "weight" to certain parameters, such as 20% angle, 20% line, 20% speed, 40% proximity. Even aspects such as fast transitions and throttle commitment could be scored. I wonder if sensors attached to the throttle/brakes could help with any entry pacing or brake checking issues. I believe this would also help bring some more "pure motorsport" fans who are perhaps sceptical of a judged sport. I'd be interested in hearing FD's position on a system like this, and other fans as well obviously.

As much as I have posted a few complaints, I definitely enjoyed this round and I believe FD is moving in a great direction. This year has definitely been the best that I have followed yet. I am currently planning a mountain biking holiday to the Canadian west coast to coincide with this round next year so I can watch it in person again (I'm from the UK). It's an aim to get to all of my favourite rounds in the next few years, but unfortunately it's quite an expensive trip just to see some drifting!

Enjoyable round none the less!

[theSidesweep]

^ D1 brought it to the US and used it at Angel Stadium back in 2009. Basically everybody hated it, I'm sure it would garner the same response if Formula D tried to use it.

"Even worse, the Drift Box was brought in. The device is installed on each car, and using GPS it gives the G-force, speed and angle readings to help to determine a more precise score. Understandably, the Japanese themselves brought this over hoping to avoid any favoritism towards from their own judges to their drivers and ironically it caused Nomura Ken to not qualify. Unfortunately the audience hated the Drift Box and it made up too much of the scoring." - (Quoted from Super Street Online)

While I disagree with the judging format again, it was significantly more consistent this round. Unfortunately, I think Formula D has become a prime example of horsepower wars in that the person with more power pulls away immediately once the run begins. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is horsepower a factor in the weight vs. tire width rule? Maybe something could be done so the guys running 400 hp aren't losing a drag race at the start (and subsequently any hopes of close proximity) to 700+ hp cars? Just my thoughts.

In terms of proximity, there are still some flaws in the system, especially seen in the battle between Kado vs Aasbo. Like others have stated, if the lead car messes up, the following car should not be penalized for avoiding a collision, even if that involves straightening out or going off course.

Otherwise, it was a solid event, nice to see some new faces qualifying. I was blown away by the noise and power that Kyle Pollard's SR20 was making. Looking forward to Vegas!

[vvtisupra]

Let me reiterate. If you are suppose to mimic a qualifying run 10-20 mph slower you are already at a disadvantage. Timing/line/ speed/gears are all different than what you have been practicing. You are even at a more disadvantage against a high torque/ hp v8 where 4th gear is the only gear required on the bank vs 6 speed turbo where you have to up shift mid bank. The restart cone should only be used for a false start. Now there are gonna be plenty of restarts and slowing down of the flow of the event.


Anyways kiss gangster entries at vegas good bye. If this pace rule stands we won't be seeing any high 90-100 mph entries.

some of the top 5 highest speeds last year was achieved by 350hp cars. That means the 40 + other cars making MORE hp and entering slower.

what are they going to do now make you pace people that are scared to go faster ?

Like i said I don't remember the judges saying the drivers need to pace. It doesn't make sense to slow down competiion. I do remember hearing the judges telling slower cars to sacrifice angle and line to keep proximity.

If the judges wanted to do that they would have moved the starting line up closer towards the bank.

[Slapshotnerd]

Everyone is so focused on the fact Conrad took advantage of the restart cone, and based on the booing from the fans you'd think Formula D would get rid of it to make their fans happy. The fact of the matter is, as was previously explained, Conrad did nothing wrong and not only that, his actions resulted in by far the best tandem battle of the night. Daigo spinning had nothing to do with the start. Formula Ds highest priority is competitive tandems and if it comes to having a restart for the sake of a awesome tandem the tandem will win every time and I agree with that. Not only that Conrad probably would have won anyway, the judges were not giving alot of OMTs(which I thought they could have, but am glad they are being more definitive) and Conrad's lead run on the bank was insane with the rest of their two runs being comparable (minus the Daigo spin). I think Daigo is a class act for turning around both times(just like he did for Walker in ATL). All in all a great event, saw it in person.

I'm glad someone gets it

In New Zealand, they didn't use a pace cone, so people built drag racing machines that could also drift. 9 times out of 10, the tandem battle was decided before the cars initiated into the first corner because 1 car was either 7 to 10 car lengths ahead or was less than a car length ahead. That's exactly what FD is avoiding.

If you set a pace cone 50 or 100 ft out from the start line, then what you effectively do is just slow the cars down as the drivers will just go 20 mph or so til the pace cone, then take off. You need the cars to be full throttle (or close to it) for the majority of the straight away to get up to the proper speed, and the pace cone just let the higher horsepower cars dog it for the 'pace cone area' and then take off. Judges said that the pace cone is effectively the initiation into the first turn, with the option to 'turn around' halfway to that initiation.

Overall, the tandem battles this season have been much more contentious than ever before. The steps FD is going through to make this happen should be praised.

[vvtisupra]

so what you are trying to say is formula D wants to have spec cars?

Drag racing machines would mean high grip high torque vehicles.... something with a v8 and big sticky tires and less gears....


you guys don't get it. Anyone can downplay a cars capabilities. By setting up a pace cone you aren't aiding anyones other than a person who is use to driving slow. by doing that you're just regressing the sport. What use to be exciting 100 mph entries will be now slow pace close tandems. So why not get rid of the pace cones and lets go back to 2nd and 3rd gear baby tracks. Hell formula D should use willow springs balcony track. Or instead of the bank on irwindale they should do the inner oval only.


Everyone is fixed over the 1000 + hp daigo claims. People over look the fact that he's only running 265 atr2 tires and has to row through 6 gears. grip is very limited especially when boost comes on so anyone can outdrag him. This is apparent especially with the falken cars with the "measley" 800 hp v8's.


PS if you want to make it fair for the slower car you let the slower car get the jump. This will allow the faster car to catch up and stay familiar with his acceleration/speed/gear


not by altering the timing/speed/distance/gear