American Drifting heading the wrong direction?

[8kred]

the japanese might felt that drifting is growing too fast here in america, thus it lacks the respect for the drifting roots in japan? I can't pin point the problem but I kind felt this sport is blowing up too fast and it doesn't have the solid fundation base like the guys in japan did when they started it all.

[ewok]

drifting should of stayed underground i dont think D1 should of come here but there are some plus's like i can get tires and parts easier then before because of the hype on drifting now plus the demand... but still its no fun when your out having some fun on your local canyon and some guy that decides to try to do the same things hes seen on option vids comes around a corner in his parents car and crashes into one of your good friends ruining there car and *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*in it up for the rest of us.........i miss the days before everyone thought drifting was cool...
-Derek

[Brian]

i am the one who said Sam is a bad drifter. i don't think he is very good at all.
i HAVE seen him in real life. wasnt it the purple s14 that he first drove? he didnt do too well then. then he drove the supra. didnt do too well then. i can remember him at the last event in which he drove the supra, he came very close, or hit the wall, on many of his runs. how is that good? that is not what a good drift is. last time i checked, the wall isnt the ideal line.
now he dirves the Viper. now, i have NOT seen him drive this in person yet. however, i have seen videos of him in it. what i saw was him taking horrible lines, then getting mid turn and flooring it which sends it sideways. that's not very good. i really am focusing on Atlants with these comments. he would dive down into the main corner and push the other car out while mashing the accelerator and getting it sideways. that just isnt good drifting.

[CrazyHawaiian]

The reason people get close to the wall is to show just how close they can get without hitting it. This is done in many exhibitions, both in the USA and Japan. I dont know why you think less of him because he uses the power over technique. Maybe he uses it a bit too much, but this technique is used by multiple people both in the USA and Japan.

[Brian]

i know some people are VERy good at putting the car exactly where they want it (perfect example is Mr. Koguchi. he can placet he car wherever he wants. i have seen it so mnay times in first person point of view)
i dont believe Sam is one of these people however. i can't wait until Sam just slams into somebody or makes somebody slam into a wall because of his driving style. i have talked to friends who have driven against him in the Formula D events and the all share my same opinion.
but think whatever you want to think.
blah blah blah i dont feel like arguing with drifting.com anymore.
fact remains, i don't think Sam is a good driver. if you disagree with me, great. if you agree, great.

[CrazyHawaiian]

Well if you read the entire thread you'll see that I understand what you are saying. I dont like Sams style either. Its not the traditional Japan Battle Style, but more a modified USA Race type style that messes everyone else up. I agree with you that Sams current battle style is not cool and I can see other drivers not liking it, but cmon, the guy is still a good driver. If he was a bad driver he would not be staying on the track, he would be crashing.

[mranlet]

Jack B. Normal and his Nissan 240:

People in America do some really stupid things. Unfortunately, they are also very suggestable. It isn't very often that you'll see the same level of organization and concern for safety in the US than you do in places like Japan or Europe. Street drifting can be really insanely stupid and dangerous when people do it through intersections and with other drivers around or in places where accidents may occur, but it can also be very enjoyable and safe when practiced in empty industrial parks, remote farm roads, and parking lots.

Sure it may cost you $40 or $50 to come to a sanctioned event like DG trials or 4AG, but compare that $50 for a full day of drifting with plenty of community support and EMT on standby to the $200 ticket for "display of power" and the night in jail or concussion!

There have ben a few people in Tampa that have already been arrested for drifting and if people don't keep it off the streets, the penalties for stupidity will only increase.

I SAY: if you're dumb enough to do it on the street where anyone would care that you're there or even hear you, you ARE breaking the law and SHOULD be taken off the street no matter what the means.

Commercialization:

Nowadays D1 is essentially set up to sell videos - commercialization is part of the package.

SIMPLY PUT: American drifting will never be Japaneese drifting. I think that US drifting is different than Japaneese drifting but at the same time they are both changing in some of the same ways.

Watch a D1 video from 2000 or so and notice how few sponspr stickers there are. Look at the old Cressidas that are half primer and back when half of the drivers were driving their street cars. Flash forward to 2004 - Taniguchi, Nomuken, Ueno, Ueo and a myriad of others are driving vehicles that are rolling billboards...

Is it wrong that major car manufacturers are getting their product out there? Is that any different than seeing a Z06 at Le Mans or a Realtime RSX in Speed world challenge? Of course manufacturers are going to be the first to back the best US drivers.

The truth is that there is big money in drifting now - it's moved out of the basement and is now in the concumer's eye

American Drift Cars:

When the GM Kappa platform really launches with the Saturn Curve, Malibu Maxx, Chevy Nomad, and others I think that we will see more economy-oriented drift cars.

The majority of American drift cars are going to have a whole butt-load of power because that how American car makers build them. US maker's RWD cars tend to have high displacement V6's or V8's under the hood that can make insane power with little money put into them. It would only make sense that the American cars be represented as heavy powerful juggernauts in the drifting series' because that what they are for the most part.

The notion that American don't make good platforms is silly - I'm sure that Crazy and others can attest to the tremendous aftermarket support of the F-body. The Fox Mustang can be bought up for sub-$2000 budgets and be fully built for under $5k if you know where to get parts (swap meets, car clubs, E-bay, etc)

What can we do?

-Emphasize safety and set a good example.
Don't be "that guy" who does drifts in the Mall parking garage or slides the tail of his 240 across 3 lanes worth of intersection with oncomming traffic.

-Refuse the big-dollar organizations.
Don't buy APC drift parts and make sure that other people know that you think they blow. Don't go to Formula D or US D1 events. Go to a Pontiac dealer and tell the salespeople that you really like drifting but you can't afford a GTO - they WILL tell their bosses that people aren't buying the GTO for it's drift appeal and maybe that the Rhys in a Solstice would be a better combination.

-Keep it grassroots.
Go to DGtrials or 4AG or other grassroots events, help people out, talk technique, work with other people and coordinate lines and runs, share your tools and know how rather than brewing what you have in your lab and then trying to beat everyone with force rather than skill.

On a final note: I don't have all the answers, nor do I pretend to, so please discuss with me rather than trying to shoot me down. Hopefully this little rant will stick with people next time they are tempted to set a bad example or they talk to someone who has been misguided in the world of drifting...

-MR

[totoro001]

I do believe that maybe right now, american's have the view of drifting that many of us do when we get into it. "You need lots of HP to keep up and blah blah blah.." Which after you get to know the sport, you realize that it isn't true. If you look at a lot of the professional drifters from the states (Rhys, Sam, etc), true, they do have notoriously large HP cars, but at the same time, a lot of the up-and-comers have the smaller HP s13's and hachi's. I really think that it's just a matter of opinion and what people are seeing is just those in the big HP cars overpowering those in the lower HP cars, when really the people with the big HP cars are actually just good drivers and they could probably do just as well in an underpowered car.

And i really don't think that judging is biased. I've been to d1, i've been to a decent number of drifting competitions, and by watching them and knowing the rules, i usually (97% of the time) agree with the judges when they decide the winner..

[CRASHDRIVE]

Re: American Drifting heading the wrong direction?

Originally posted by JasperShowWRX
Well, I've been talking to multiple D1 drivers and fans and a majority of them believe that American Drifting is heading in the wrong direction. I'd like to know what you guys think. Some people believe that the american direction is going towards big horsepower and straying away from good ole underpowered skillful driving. I've even heard that people think our Supra is unfair. Yes we have horsepower but we have a lot of 'junk in the trunk' if you know what I mean. I wanna hear your opinion. All opinions appreciated. Are the big dawg American cars (GTO, VIPER) out of place? Are Americans gripping too much? Are we giving the American public the wrong view of drifting? Do you think the judging is biased? I want to know what you think. See you trackside!

my .2cents.
I think American Drifting (public not pro) is going the wrong way. Because the way of thinking is different than the JP counterparts. Japanese street racers are more about their skills than power. Also, their culture is WAYYY different than ours. They do this because it's fun to them, not because it's the new FAD in the market. They challenge themselves with pure sportmanship. When they lose, they lose, that's It. they dont try to kill and become such a sore-loser about it.

Questions:
1: Are the big dawg American cars (GTO, VIPER) out of place?
I don't think so. Im pretty sure they are open about other cars entering the series.
2: Are Americans gripping too much?
Yes, I think Americans, got a lot more year ahead of them just to be "up to par" with the japanese pro drifters.
3: Are we giving the American public the wrong view of drifting?
YES, because big industry leaders are more in it for the money no matter what the consequeses are. As long as the market is full and rich. They will make as much product (with the cheapest way to produce them) as possible. They dont even sponsor local events and try to give an outlet to the purest and enthusiast.
4: Do you think the judging is biased?
I don't think so. They judges has been doing this for a while now, so why question their judgment? They don't randomly pick some half as to judge on a price winning event. Also, why make exceptions just because of the American drivers are not up to par? Do you think they were selected for their skills? I don't think so. I think they were hired because of their reputation. They already have their name known by the market, thus making their sponsored vehicle more known to the market.

Just let me know what you guys think about my answers.
I just dont want to see cops pulling over someone, because they have an 86. or ban 86's on the market, because they are don't pass DOT newer standards.

[Ghost of Duluth]

K first off, Brian. I don't mean for this to come out the wrong way but here it goes. Sam is a better driver than you. Period. He is a better driver than me, Period. Why? cause he is out there drifting professionally and until you drive against him or I do, he's better than us. Hands down. Dodge isn't going to sponser some yahoo off the street. Get real. Now you may not like his style, but he is a good driver. He won Atlanta remember? So focusing on Atlanta isn't helping your arguement. I was there, I saw it first hand.

Now, Hate_me_now. On to the Hip Hop culture. I hate to tell you but the Hip Hop culture hasn't been non gangsta dominated since the days of the Sugar Hill Gang and Break Dancing. Sure you have a few break out groups that keep it clean but for the most part, it is gangsta and that aint the record companies and corperations. That is the places that thes people came up from. I hope you don't think that some record company exec went to South Central and plucked Dr Dre off the street and said, "Hey, I want you so singe a song for me bout shooting someone" No, they took that demo tape to the company after being seen in a local show by someone and the company bought it. So gangsta rap was there long before the companies got involved. Does that make you not like Hip Hop? Nope. So do what you ahve been doing. Support the drivers who you feel "keep it real" and don't worry bout the rest of it. As for a Tiburon, I think someone in this thread knows alllllll about them. You might ask him.

Ewok. I do see your point, no one likes to get fragged by some boob who can't drive. That is the only thing I worry about as well.

Mranlet. Not buying APC products is only going to hurt you. APC poneyd up the dough to bring the D1 drivers that you all so love over here for you. So you're shooting yourself in the foot. As for telling Pontiac that you can't afford a GTO. Sheeyah right. You think they are going to care that some kid came in and said they love Drifting but can't afford a car? That will go in one ear and out the other. You'd get more attn if you offered them 5000 for a new GTO. Other than that you are dead on. Safety, off the street and all that is a great idea.

Now finally Crashdrive. You hit the nail on the head. Things are completely different here than there. Only thing is that Drifting isn't heading the wrong direction, it's just heading in a different direction. Drifting will be just like any other car sport that doesn't go in a straight line. On the streets its bad, nothing you can do to change that.

I hate to break it to all of you but Drifting isn't the problem here. It's everyone who drives. The typical teenager has an Immortalistic attitude and they can do no wrong. That is the problem. You all think you are going to live forever. Peer pressure is a major problem as well. How many times have you had someone in the car and they wanted you to show them some Drifting and you just had to bust a move? I bet alot more than you remember. You can't back down cause they will give you crap. Then you overshoot the corner and wipe it. Happens all the time. THAT is the problem with Drifting. Punka$$ people trying to show off in either their parents car, their friends car or a car that their parents bought for them. Drifting is growing faster than the people in it. Drifting is britches and 90% of the people are too big for them.

It's those 10%'ers that are actually doing something. The Rhyss and the Sam's and the Alex's. Then you hate on em cause they are doign odd lines and any other crapola you can come up with to bag on em. But oddly enough, they are the ones that are making something, they are the ones that are shaping the Drifting landscape. If you don't like it, get good and go out there and do something about it. Until then, shut up.

[mranlet]

Originally posted by Ghost of Duluth
Mranlet. Not buying APC products is only going to hurt you. APC poneyd up the dough to bring the D1 drivers that you all so love over here for you. So you're shooting yourself in the foot.

APC can suck it as far as I'm concerned, and I'm no fan of the new D1 either. Signal guys came to DGtrials events, it's not like they can't afford tickets over here. APC wanted them to be here as advertising for their company. "If Nomuken and Tsuchiya show up, our parts MUST be drift-a-liscious".

The drift scene is like anything else: if you build it, they will come...

Originally posted by Ghost of Duluth
As for telling Pontiac that you can't afford a GTO. Sheeyah right. You think they are going to care that some kid came in and said they love Drifting but can't afford a car? That will go in one ear and out the other. You'd get more attn if you offered them 5000 for a new GTO.

GM requires bi-monthly reports of customer's input from the field personel (the salespeople). If people don't like something about a car or have issues with something that prevents sales, the higher-ups want to know about it. It is really in the best interest of car companies to change the things to suit the consumer's interest. My brother worked at a GM dealer in MD and told me about this practice.

I've already done this at the Pontiac dealer in Tampa - rolled up in my "project car" CRX and stepped out in my collared shirt, dockers pants and Fossil watch (not my usual dress, but I'm willing to hit the wardrobe when it counts). I explained that I run my own company and an looking for a dependable drift car from the factory and saw their GTO at Formula D. They wanted to tell me all about it right away and how it's the new American Icon and all that balogna... I told them that a the competition car is what I want with the revised suspension and they told me that they can't get me anything like that but the best thing they can do is to inform the regional managers of my interests as a consumer.

The "drop in the bucket" or "in one ear and out the other" mentality is why stuff doesn't happen, but even is a hundred drifters across the country tell the dealers that they want a GTO like they saw in Formula D but the USDM GTO isn't close enough to the competition car, the engineers will at the very least take that input into account for any revisions. Now would be the time to hit the GTO and Kappa platform when they come out because it's still the first model year and the most changes are usually made within the first 2 years.

-MR

[shutUPandLEARN]

The American drift scene grew up far too quick and did not get the time to mature. Even the drag race scene took it's time. The Japanese drift scene is a lot more respected because of this factor. Americans don't see the skill and dedication needed to really drift. Plus over-commercialism (such as this website) has not in any way positively helped the drift scene. The groups of airheaded sheep flocking to D1 is not a sign of the scene growing, but of it becoming the next forgotten fad. For the people who truly see drifting for what it is, and enjoy the sport purely, they've already went back to grassroots.

That basically is track days, and late nights.

[malcolm]

ok, when drifting first started to come to the fore in Japan, were all the drifters there as good as they are today? no. it took them time to get better, just as it will take the "pros" here some time to improve.

the only problem I see is that these american drivers are getting directly compared to the japanese drivers who have had a decade more experience. most of the time, a drifter with 15 years experience is going to be better than a drifter with 6 months of experience.

As for drifting on the streets, yes, there will be some idiots that will put their cars in ditches, and into other cars. it's sad, it's not good for drifting, but it will happen. we should all do our best to try to keep people from doing dumb stuff, but we shouldn't look at it as if drifting is at fault.

the real problem these days is that people aren't accountable for their actions. little johnny sees bart simpson light something on fire and then burns down their house... it's the simpson's fault, not stupid johnny. he sees James Bond shoot someone, so he gets dad's loaded shotgun and shoots someone... it's Bond's fault. then, johnny grows up, gets a car, sees F&F, and crashes into people when he drag races. it's not his fault, it's the fault of F&F and the drag racing community. Now that drifting has hit the bigtime in north america, johnny's bought his 240 or an ae86, and he's just waiting to stuff it into something, and have the public blame it on drifting.

now here comes the good part. drifting takes skill. if you try to show off and look like a fool, then people will laugh at you. people don't like to be laughed at. this will make a lot of people practice, and get better. unlike drag racing, driver skill is needed in drifting. therefore the worst that you will likely see is johnny will put his car into a ditch or bend his suspension on a curb. only once johnny has built up the courage to show off will he take his 240/86 out in public to drift... remember, speed is a lot less scary than having your car slide out of control. hopefully most of the little johnnies out there will scare themselves once, and go about it the right way, and hopefully avoid slamming their 240s and 86s into grandma parker crossing the street.

as for commercialization... I'm all for it. I'd love to see drifting on speed channel. I'd love to see drifting expand worldwide, and become a recognized sport.



As for the whole Sam vs. Alex debate, it didn't look to me that Alex was superior to Sam. It just looked to me that Sam made less mistakes. Alex went off the track twice or three times. I wouldn't call that great drifting. Also, Sam initiated his drifts way before each corner, whereas Alex seemed to just turn into the corner, and allow the tail to come out. personally, I believe both are good, but both have a LOT of room for improvement as well.


Now I believe americans love to do things their own way. They'll develop their own style of drifting as well. yes, you'll see heavier, higher power cars drifting because that's what's on the market. With any luck, drifting will bring lighter, more nimble cars to the market... *fingers crossed*. As long as there is good drifting, I say: who cares. big cars, small cars... they're all cars! it doesn't matter. as for purity and heritage of drifting, that's for books. times change, and so will all the politics around drifting. the one thing that will remain constant is that drifting is being a part of the car, and making that car slide just like you want it to, and make it slide in the most extreme way you can. as long as that is still the core of drifting, then it's all good to me.

[malcolm]

one more thing... someone else brought up skill, and how the american public can't appreciate it. it's too true.

look at F1. when an F1 car is at the limit, and the driver is really pushing, you can see the car twitching slightly, you can see how the drivers inputs are affecting the car. but the nascar fan can't see that. if it isn't blatant, it's over their heads. Nascar fans like nascar because they have a pack of 43 cars all together. they don't care about driver inputs and how the car reacts. they love their big "wrecks" and crumpled steel. they don't understand what goes into a banzai lap where mind and body are pushed to the absolute extreme in order to just improve your laptime by one tenth.

I find nascar boring because the cars aren't moving around at all. they are totally gripping, all the time. not even a subtle drift (drift used in a different sense here). I like F1 because you can tell that the driver is really pushing the car, and you can see the car moving around and twitching.

now, the average nascar fan will like drifting the first time they see it, but will likely get bored of it. they won't understand and appreciate the skill or the physics of it. "big deal, they're sliding them cars. I can do that in my ford truck." some will like it, most will get bored of it. it will likely just increase the diehard follwing, much like drag racing does. most people don't like drag racing, but they have their core of enthusiasts. same with drifting. it won't be huge, but it will be big.

[craziazzmofo66]

Originally posted by Drift For Food
The only "bad" direction I see drifting go is commercialization. Plain and simple, when big business gets into the drifting scene, it'll all be over. With any history or background, they will turn this passtime into a specticle. That's when drifting at least in America will be ruined. When the big companies start to shape drifting into their own image and sell it to the public, that's when it will be ruined.

this is the most truth u can get, its plain and simple....it is corporate america here and there is no "trend or hype" that can avoid it, mayjor corporations see $$$ signs whenever something big like drifting pops up, and they will do whatever it takes to get on to that sene to make multiple amount of money which they spend in it. then eventually the rest of the corporate azzholes will get on the bandwagon and sooner or later ull find a budwiser sponsered driftcar with dale jr drivin it....the truth is, nothin i mean nothin can avoid mainstream america, as long as its cool and hip, its gonna go big.....just that some times certain things might fad off the mainstream like the spice girls because the companies arent makin enough money off of it.....so....lets all hope that drifting is gonna fad off the radar soon enough but till then we're just gonna have to bare with it...sigh....