American Drifting heading the wrong direction?

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by ma71supraturbo
oh, and another thing -- how many people crying foul over the $100,000 Viper sticker price would open their mouths if some japanese drifter brought out a race-prepped NSX?

I would. but notice dispite being able to, they never have drifted a NSX. hmm says something doesnt it?

[malcolm]

well, the NSX with zero-toe would likely be a REALLY hard car to drift (or even just driving quickly), but with the stock 6mm of toe-in, it might not be that bad for drifting. 6mm of toe-in would make any car stable under cornering (or so I would think... it's about a degree, from my calculations).

I'd try it.

[noobster]

kewl thread.

bottomline is that many of the peeps on here are purists. therefore we don't like to see the drift scene go in a different direction cuz it doesn't stay true to what drifting is.

but the way the US does stuff is always different. more media, big companies, flashy productions, etc. this is how its going to be. it will be about entertainment first, skill second.

it will open up the sport to the masses for many to enjoy. however the grassroots style drifters will be forced to enjoy more of a low key drift production. so if thats the kind of drift scene you want, it will be here.

for me, i like the fact that its becoming big. seeing vipers and gto's with crazy tire smoke going sideways is awesome. i want to see NSX's, Porsche's, Ferarri's, and other crazy cars battle each other. thats entertaining.

when i want to experience more of a purist drift scene, ill go to a more low key event. plain and simple.

different isn't always worse imo.

oh yeah, and for the guy who said that sam wasn't a good drifter, umm, have u seen this video from Seca?

http://driftingvideoclipscom.sitepr...net/Sam-Ken.wmv

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by noobster
kewl thread.


for me, i like the fact that its becoming big. seeing vipers and gto's with crazy tire smoke going sideways is awesome. i want to see NSX's, Porsche's, Ferarri's, and other crazy cars battle each other. thats entertaining.

If drifting goes that route, you will see drifting stop. You will see tournament style grip racing, not drifting. Remember Nascar or Stock car racing, Used stock cars at some point. Its very possible in 10 years you will go to a drift event and not see one person get sideways, Just abunch of tube framed GT cars driving fast in a tournament style environment.

If you want to see that, well thats fine, but thats not drifting, i dont want to see drifting come down to that. I want to see cars most can afford, drifting, battling, showing off skill and being entertaining. I really think the Evo/350Z/GTO price range should be near the top. Maybe just slightly more. For new cars i think about 35grand should be about the top to purchase the car. And i really think the level of modification should stay relatively low. the Apex FD was stripped freakin bare. Thats pretty bad in my opinion. The GTO was the done the same. However they also modified the suspension points and changed how many degrees of steering they have (done on some japanese cars too i beleive). I think somewhere between there should be about the most radial levels of modification.

Perhaps its time to set up some new rules about what can and cant be modified. I really think the cars should repersent what the average enthusiest is capable of with some decent money to put in. The rules should also allow relatively low dollar teams to be competitive, I dont see this as the biggest issue, because from what i see, low dollar teams buy S13s and such, that cost only a few grand. And high dollar teams buy S15s and Z cars, gtos ect..

Sam drives the viper with great sill. He uses the broad flat torque curve to his advantage, changing angle with the throttle easily. However the viper is very expensive. I dont think that should repersent what D1 cars are. And if the D1 goes in that direction Or formula D does. We the drifters at the grass roots level will keep doing what we do. Drifting our Camaros and S13s and FCs and Toyotas We will go to amature track days practice and we will compete. And if there are no amature competitions or track days, it will be done in the streets. Same as it always way. That is just how we work in this country. In other countrys. Everywere.


On the plus side if drifting does blow up, then collapse, it will be great. Drifting will be known, but at the same time, it will be left with the roots. US to keep it alive. Let us, with our dollars, and yen, deside what we want to see drifting.

[malcolm]

ok, so they need more rules. that's no big deal really.... suspension must link to the chassis in stock points.... car cannot weight less than 85% (or so) of the stock curb weight.... etc, etc...

as for them gripping all the time... um, that isn't drifting, and if cars start to do that, then they will lose through the judging aspect. I heard somewhere where if you pass the guy ahead of you, you automatically win. that should be taken out. it's not racing, it's drifting.

Honestly, smaller budget teams can compete with the big teams. Again, it's not racing where ultimate speed counts. If you have a reasonably well set-up car, and the driver is good enough, the team will do quite well. Of course, if you go out there with a mostly stock S13, you aren't going to go far no matter who's behind the wheel. The big teams won't do any better than the knowledgable smaller teams.

[nissanguy_24]

My point being, they call it stock car racing, but the cars arent stock, nothing on the cars are stock. People who loved racing STOCK cars had there sport taken away by big sponsors. Drifting can easily do the same thing. Those who love drifitng can have our sport taken away by big sponsors and replaced withsomeone else wearing the same name.

[Ripper]

Originally posted by grift
I don't know. I think it is good to see americans with amercian cars but I would hate for it to go the way of street racing. only time will tell

i agree

[CrazyHawaiian]

Originally posted by malcolm
I heard somewhere where if you pass the guy ahead of you, you automatically win. that should be taken out. it's not racing, it's drifting.

Werd. IMO the judges need to step up and start punishing this type of driving. You should LOSE points if you pass someone or cut off their line, with the exception being if they mess up, spin out, or go off the track on their own. Other than that, I think judges should score low for people that grip a turn to pass someone or cut off their line and forced them wide so you can pass. Thats not drifting.

[adam]

americans really neeed to build up their grass roots bracket. considering that not many people drift, is a definite disadvantage for all of us. they seem to think anyone can drift and would eventually make even more outlandish than what was originally.


case in point:
May 1 2004. Im in my drift spot going over my corner. out of no where this civic (wing,fartcan, wiper lights, and god awful neons) is blocking my exit, i come within one inch from this idiot. Now im pissed.....i get out and tell him to get out of the way. he does after a minute or two. I get back in my car and start driving again to run the corner again...right when i get back around, theres almost 5 cars lined up on the side streets, i slow down and see that same civic trying to drift albeit extremely bad. I stop and park next to a sunfire. and ask whats going on...they came here to drift, jus like NEED FOR SPEED UNDERGROUND...

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!!

There is even another kid that told me he wanted to buld up his 97 corolla, and DRIFT that, because he saw so many corollas in the irwindale videos. I got another kid that thinks i should put a sr20 into my engine because thats cool now. OMG!!! hell must have frozen over..OMG!!!

No wonder drifting is never gonna take. we got little posers trying act out their fantasies in the worst possible scenario.
I love drifting, but seriously i have always hated the bandwagon and will always hate this bandwagon. Americans need to learn otherwise they will simply be considered nothing more than posers in a big boy game.

They think they can drift w/o rwd, or atleast awd. they think they can go showoff without any skill at all, and then complain they broke their bumper ( the sunfire got that). They think too much of themselves. No wonder americans are a joke when it comes to skill and respect. tehy simply drown it out with "bling ", and arrogance.

[malcolm]

yeah, the problem is that the majority of youth have a total lack of respect. as for authority, they just don't care. They do all sorts of stupid stuff, and get away with it, because the police can only give them warnings, or tell their parents. if the parents don't care, then the kids don't care. so vandalism is on the rise, as is a lot of other things......... they don't follow rules because they don't want to.

with drifting, they still don't want to follow those rules. They don't understand that anarchy just won't work, and can dangerous in a scene like drifting or racing...

You just need to get a really tough gang out there to run things for you... someone misbehaves, then "drastic measures" take place... haha

[noobster]

Originally posted by nissanguy_24
However the viper is very expensive. I dont think that should repersent what D1 cars are.

so ur saying that the D1 cars aren't expensive? wtf? the D1 cars with all their mods prolly cost more than the viper?

if you don't think that expensive cars should represent D1, then what about these D1 cars?







why does the cost of the car have anything to do with whether or not they belong in the drift scene? wat, because you and i prolly couldn't afford them? so what! i can't afford michael schumacher's F1 ferrari either...does that mean it doesn't belong in F1? besides, i see used vipers online for like $50-60k...they need little modifications to become competitve. i don't see ur point?

[DoriFuta-]

I think that most ppl do go for the horse power in a car and not looking to their own driving ability and skills.
Sure, anyone can race down a straight-away at 90+ odd MPH but that is lacking one thing, the fun of making your car slide-ways.

Hell, I Drift a beet-up 1985 VW Golf against my friends. (did i mention it's all stock? as in all original.)

The point i am trying to make is that horse power and muscle are great.
But, it don't always mean the stronger and faster car is going to win.
It takes the skills and talent of knowing how your car handles when making a hair-pin turn and causing it not to spin out, now that is a true test.

Just think of the Turtle and the Rabbit story, Slow and steady won the race.

Even if your car hits 90mph on a 100foot straight you still have to slow down in order to make the turn other wise you are going to crash.

"Be Safe and have Fun"

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by noobster
so ur saying that the D1 cars aren't expensive? wtf? the D1 cars with all their mods prolly cost more than the viper?

if you don't think that expensive cars should represent D1, then what about these D1 cars?

why does the cost of the car have anything to do with whether or not they belong in the drift scene? wat, because you and i prolly couldn't afford them? so what! i can't afford michael schumacher's F1 ferrari either...does that mean it doesn't belong in F1? besides, i see used vipers online for like $50-60k...they need little modifications to become competitve. i don't see ur point?

If you go back and look at my previous post you will understand what i think about these cars. You will also understand the starting price for the viper is 100 thousand dollars. That changes things slightly doesnt it?

Oh no i cant afford a f1 car??? who the hell cars thats F1, NOT drifting. If you want to watch ultra expensive cars that dont exisist on the street battle it out then go watch F1. THis is drifting.


Gee you sure schooled me with those expensive japanese cars. You really proved that i was simply a racist poser bandwagon jumper who doesnt like Amrican cars. Of course thats ignore every post i've made so far. Especialy the ones i made before the viper or GTO where ever released. Also included the one i made yesterday on this very thread.

I really think the Evo/350Z/GTO price range should be near the top. Maybe just slightly more. For new cars i think about 35grand should be about the top to purchase the car. And i really think the level of modification should stay relatively low. the Apex FD was stripped freakin bare. Thats pretty bad in my opinion.

What does price have to do with it? Keeping the price of the cars low keeps small shops and indipendents competitive Keep even professional drifting close to the grass roots scene. It keeps it so that fans can take a close look at the cars and see how similar they are to the car they drove to the event. Keeping the price down keeps it real.

Even professional drifting is very grass roots. They have open pits, you can talk to the mechanics and the drivers. The prize money for winning is there, but not substantial. Its not like they are racing for a million dollars. and the fans cant go near the drivers, and the cars dont repersent whats on the street at all. Like other forms of racing.


If you want Drifting to become that then just go watch nascar, or formula 1 or something else.

But hey what do i know? im just a bandwagon hopping america hater who drives a civic or something.

[craziazzmofo66]

Originally posted by CrazyHawaiian
Werd. IMO the judges need to step up and start punishing this type of driving. You should LOSE points if you pass someone or cut off their line, with the exception being if they mess up, spin out, or go off the track on their own. Other than that, I think judges should score low for people that grip a turn to pass someone or cut off their line and forced them wide so you can pass. Thats not drifting.

i dont think it should be like that cause driftin originated from togue which is racing and passin is a part of racing, i mean if they r grippin to pass then thats just plain cheap but if they can pull off a real stylish pass, its like 2 guys freestylin and 1 of them drops a real dope line to shut the other guy up, as long as they pass with style and sideways and they dont cost the other guy to crash i think it should be complimented. just my .02

[Formula D]

You can't exclude people that have access cash or major sponsor support from drifting anymore than you can exclude crappy looking cars with bumbers coming off from competing.

Fact of it is that cash does not always make you king or make you a more competitive car or driver in every instance. Take for example that Ken Gushi's 20k 240 beat Rhys GTO, Sam's Viper and even the Kazu's RSR Japanese D1 vehicle. That's about 250k worth of vehicles cummulatively.

I agree there should be grassroots effort going on. Grassroots league that people can particiapte in and hopefully grow into full competition series like FD. DG trials and Club 4 Ag are great places for this and as drifting grows I am sure it will be more accesible to everyone. Understand you are in a growing sport.

If you dont want to participate in what is going on nowadays then excercise your right to. Many people and companies of this industry and I am sure companies you buy product from see drifting as vehicle that may help them expand their business and then in turn they can make better product for the sport you love. Additionally this makes for a potential great opportunity for you toy get involved and take place in something really that you enjoy doing on an even deepened level.

I think everyone agrees that corporate america doesnt have the greatest sense of legitimacy regarding what is "next" now but more of a "this is cool, buy it" attitude. That is the perspective of many from the outside looking in. What is interesting to note is that the battles between comepnies like that is what creates storylines, it is what creates drama and competition. Without the Viper there is no Sam vs Alex story. Seriously after Alex went against Sam and created one of the most memorable moments yet, you go to the very next event and see Alex sign copies of kids AE86 manuals. No one can say that is not exciting.

Anytime you have a growing anything you will have new people coming into it and sometimes those people are not the greatest, ie: shopping cart civic trying to drift in the Longs parking lot right in front of you trying to make a right on Burbank blvd, however you have to sit back and weigh the good vs the bad. Without GM and Dodge you dont have anyone to want to beat as bad, and you dont have as much outside attention looking in.

Go out there and promote your message whatever it may be. I think the sanctity of drifting is safe in the sense that that is what people loved about it from the start to get it where it is now. Will it grow and take on new looks, etc perhaps but what it is and means wont change I think. There are no bodies out there trying to alter it outside of the state it is and was. You have not seen Roger Penske or Chip Ganassi start a league nor will I think you ever will.