American Drifting heading the wrong direction?

[OH240SE]

Not quite D1 level yet my friend,

I higly doubt anyone in FormulaD who has the skills so far could complete and win. Even in the Blasted Mopar Renta-Viper. altho that would be our best weapon so far, i'll shamely admit. Its funny that we consider horsepower over skill. Hell, put Gushi in the FordGT, Norris in a Vette, and Sam in that Viper. It would be interesting to watch, but we'd still be outclassing them by double the horses and barely hanging in it.

As Benson said in his post about the Girl Drifters...

"why can't GUYS drift like that here? haha!"

he has a good point, for the time that Drifting has been practiced and prefected over there, we are taking leaps and bounds to compete with them, but it'll be a while before the majority of us american would beat them. Same when Hideo Fukayama tried to compete in Nascar, look how well he did (crashing out half the time). Dirt-Track Stock Cars, that is our grassroot, drifting is theirs. I'm glad that we are changing styles and mixing it up, but its just a matter of experience and practice.

I'd love to see the FormulaD champion and the other top 2 places go over there and try to compete. Even tho I stick with my home country, i still doubt we could beat them.

Atleast for now....

[pony]

Originally posted by nissanguy_24
My point being, they call it stock car racing, but the cars arent stock, nothing on the cars are stock. People who loved racing STOCK cars had there sport taken away by big sponsors. Drifting can easily do the same thing. Those who love drifitng can have our sport taken away by big sponsors and replaced withsomeone else wearing the same name.

actually youre wrong. Stock car racing WAS in fact showroom stock cars until entries like the Daytona Superbird and Grand National completely ripped up the competition. So before manufacturers started building passenger cars with super high output 393s from the factory, they decided to make the powertrains of stock cars the same to level out the competition.,

So now its a replicated body of a production car. the wheelbase, track and body lines match those of the car they are based off.

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by pony
actually youre wrong. Stock car racing WAS in fact showroom stock cars until entries like the Daytona Superbird and Grand National completely ripped up the competition. So before manufacturers started building passenger cars with super high output 393s from the factory, they decided to make the powertrains of stock cars the same to level out the competition.,

So now its a replicated body of a production car. the wheelbase, track and body lines match those of the car they are based off.

I dont see where im wrong in my statement. And your telling me the body lines and wheel base match those of the car there based off? In that case theres some pretty wild ford tauruses running around. The only thing those cars have in common with there stock "counter parts" is a name and badge.


Well, sence you just like to argue with me, it seems. feel free to dig up numbers on the wheel bases of the nascars and lets say the dodge stock counter parts, oh provide some pictures too. We will see how similar they are.

[pony]

Originally posted by nissanguy_24
I dont see where im wrong in my statement. And your telling me the body lines and wheel base match those of the car there based off? In that case theres some pretty wild ford tauruses running around. The only thing those cars have in common with there stock "counter parts" is a name and badge.


Well, sence you just like to argue with me, it seems. feel free to dig up numbers on the wheel bases of the nascars and lets say the dodge stock counter parts, oh provide some pictures too. We will see how similar they are.

To run a car in Winston Cup competition, the car is required to be available to the public as a consumer production model. Both the Pontiac Grand Prix and Chevrolet Monte Carlo have counterparts available to the public. The Ford Taurus is also available to the public but in a four-door model only.

The fact that the Taurus comes as a four-door is an important point to note because of the other requirement of a car type. The general profile of a production model is theoretically intended to be maintained in a race-car profile. The specific guideline is that the hood, roof, and rear-deck surfaces should resemble the consumer unit.

In the case of the GM passenger car, the profile is roughly equivalent to the race car, but because the street Taurus comes only as a four-door, some allowances were necessary to make a race version of it. This happened when the Thunderbird was phased out, and the Taurus became the car Ford put forward. The big difference is that the production four-door has a roof that is taller than the race version.

The process of making the body for a NASCAR race car is incredibly labor-intensive. The shape of the car is mostly determined by NASCAR rules. These rules are encapsulated in a set of 30 templates, each shaped to fit a different contour of the car. For instance, the biggest template fits over the center of the car from front to back. When the template is laid on the car, the gap between the template and the car cannot exceed the specified tolerance. Each template is marked on its edge with a colored line. If the line is red, then the gap must be less than 0.07 inches (0.18 cm). If the line is blue, the gap must be less than 0.25 inches (0.64 cm). If the line is green, the gap must be less than 0.5 inches (1.27 cm). The templates actually allow a little leeway in the design of the car. Because 30 templates are not enough to cover every inch of the body, some areas between template locations are not strictly controlled by NASCAR.

Many or most teams use the roof and windshield post sheet metal from factory production to obtain proper profile and height as these parts are difficult to form by hand. The hoods, roofs, and trunk lids come from the auto manufacturers, and the "floor pans" (floorboards) are stamped from an original mold and are provided by suppliers. The bumpers can come either from the manufacturer or an "aftermarket" supplier.

taken from www.tricklefan.com

the only real major difference is that th west series is allowed to have a 110 inch wheelbase with the north series having a 105 inch wheelbase.

OOOOH, big differences from their street counterparts.

[mercutio]

Wheelbase on Nextel Cup stockers is 110 inches, on the Busch Series cars it's 105 inches. I'm not sure what the wheelbase of the Taurus, Monte, and Intrepid are, but I'm pretty sure they're not all 110 inches. And the bodies are now spec bodies designed by NASCAR itself, with the only differences being the front and rear bumpers. The last stock car to look anything like its production counterpart was the '97 Thunderbird (also the last street version of a stock car to be RWD and have a V8), which had a 113 inch wheelbase but the hood and trunk were identical to. Even before the switch to the spec body, the side profiles of the Taurus and Intrepid were radically different from their street versions because if the B-pillar were left in the stock location it would have been too difficult for the drivers to exit through the window. So NASCAR let Ford and Dodge move the B-pillar rearward to make the cars look more like two-doors and create a larger window opening. Yes, stock cars used to be modified production vehicles, but that ended a long time ago. And if anyone can tell me which Ford I can buy with a 351 V8 in it, I'd love to know. Don't get me wrong, I love watching NASCAR racing, but to imply that anything is remotely stock is just wrong.

[pony]

Originally posted by mercutio
Wheelbase on Nextel Cup stockers is 110 inches, on the Busch Series cars it's 105 inches. I'm not sure what the wheelbase of the Taurus, Monte, and Intrepid are, but I'm pretty sure they're not all 110 inches. And the bodies are now spec bodies designed by NASCAR itself, with the only differences being the front and rear bumpers. The last stock car to look anything like its production counterpart was the '97 Thunderbird (also the last street version of a stock car to be RWD and have a V8), which had a 113 inch wheelbase but the hood and trunk were identical to. Even before the switch to the spec body, the side profiles of the Taurus and Intrepid were radically different from their street versions because if the B-pillar were left in the stock location it would have been too difficult for the drivers to exit through the window. So NASCAR let Ford and Dodge move the B-pillar rearward to make the cars look more like two-doors and create a larger window opening. Yes, stock cars used to be modified production vehicles, but that ended a long time ago. And if anyone can tell me which Ford I can buy with a 351 V8 in it, I'd love to know. Don't get me wrong, I love watching NASCAR racing, but to imply that anything is remotely stock is just wrong.

they still use the factory metal roofs and pillars. the body is pretty close to the stock body of their car of choice. see the fourth paragraph of my most.

[nissanguy_24]

oh yeah pony there practically stock! *eye roll* i mean afterall 5 inches difference is nothing... not to mention they made a 2 door race car and called it a 4 door street car. of course i could mention the drive train and power plants too but i think you made my point well enough.

[pony]

Ford Taurus - 108.5 in wheelbase
Pontiac Grand Prix - 110.5 in
Chevy Monte Carlo - 110.5 in
Dodge Stratus - 103.7 in (Coupe)

[pony]

Originally posted by nissanguy_24
oh yeah pony there practically stock! *eye roll* i mean afterall 5 inches difference is nothing... not to mention they made a 2 door race car and called it a 4 door street car. of course i could mention the drive train and power plants too but i think you made my point well enough.

I mentioned the powerplants in one of my first posts.

[mercutio]

Dodge doesn't race the Stratus, it races the Intrepid, which is a much bigger car and has a wheelbase longer than 103 inches. I think your info is just a little bit out of date. In 2002 or maybe 2003, NASCAR finally got sick of Ford, Dodge and GM whining about whose aero package was better, so all of the cars now use a common body with the exception of the front and rear bumpers. The roof and pillars are identical on all current NASCAR stock cars. In fact, this similarity is why the big three are currently upset with NASCAR--why spend $75 million a year each if the cars all look alike save for headlight decals and grille openings? Dodge wants to race the new Charger when it debuts, but it looks so radically different from the NASCAR cars there wouldn't be any point. Supposedly Dodge is the closest of the big three to pulling out of NASCAR. I'd much rather see the cars go back to at least resembling their stock counterparts. As for engines, at least NASCAR used to have the homologation rule, meaning that so long as an engine (ie the 429) was available in any car (Boss 429 Mustang) the automaker could use that engine in competition with a different car (Torino Talladega). Now the homologation rule no longer applies, since the Ford 351 is no longer available in any car or truck.

[feintmotion86]

Its really funny. So many people on this board (with the exclusion of a few) are the same as armchair quarterbacks. You don't drift. Be honest. To make matters worse, you don't drift and you have an opinion on the drift scene. an undeduated one at that.

bottomline is that many of the peeps on here are purists. therefore we don't like to see the drift scene go in a different direction cuz it doesn't stay true to what drifting is.

No, most people here are not purists. You got into this stuff far after the majority of formula D drivers got into it. Consider the average age of the forum members here. then consider how long Alex, Andy Yen, Hiro, Taka, and other formula D drivers have been doing this. The purists are the ones who spend every paycheck on their cars and for events. The purists are the ones who drive from so cal to nor cal to drive in an event, only to come back the next day so they can work on monday. The purists are the ones who don't *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* and moan about stuff, they just drive. That's a large part of the reason they are purists.

bottom line is, US drifting is growing fast, and in the right direction. there is an organized drifting series now, with professional sponsors. Several drivers are getting PAID to drift. We have a series that allows US drivers to compete against japanese drivers. There are some bad things, but mostly they are positive. the Sky really is the limit at this point.

Concerning the viper, yes some may argue that it isn't D1 spec. I 'm not familiar with all of formula D's rules, but sam has the advantage because he's already an extremely talented driver, and he has a competent car, and he has a great crew. That usually equals success. for those of you who just complain about the legality of the car still, we'll see how he does against the japanese. Then you can shut up.

with the driving styles, the US drivers are exceeding the growing speed that the japanese had. as a whole, US drivers are where japanese drivers were at probably 5-6 years into the sport, and its only been pro for 2 years now here in the states.

While I'm basically saying drifting as a whole is headed in the right direction, there's only one real qualm I have. I don't like the mentality that two drivers in particular seem to exhibit, and that's the passing mentality. Alex VS sam in atl and Rhys vs Calvin in sonoma come to mind. Come on people, passing is not the point of drifting. You watch the pros, and they pull up to their opponents door, then back off usually. passing only happens when there is a clear and present lane do the the error of the other driver. These two examples I stated above are forced moves where there was no clean lane to pass, it was forced, and in turn put their opponents in danger and to the casual viewer mad it look like they lost the match.

[AlexPfeiffer]

Well said Feint, and thanks for getting this thread back onto a drifting topic and not Nascar.

[pony]

Originally posted by mercutio
Dodge doesn't race the Stratus, it races the Intrepid, which is a much bigger car and has a wheelbase longer than 103 inches. I think your info is just a little bit out of date. In 2002 or maybe 2003, NASCAR finally got sick of Ford, Dodge and GM whining about whose aero package was better, so all of the cars now use a common body with the exception of the front and rear bumpers. The roof and pillars are identical on all current NASCAR stock cars. In fact, this similarity is why the big three are currently upset with NASCAR--why spend $75 million a year each if the cars all look alike save for headlight decals and grille openings? Dodge wants to race the new Charger when it debuts, but it looks so radically different from the NASCAR cars there wouldn't be any point. Supposedly Dodge is the closest of the big three to pulling out of NASCAR. I'd much rather see the cars go back to at least resembling their stock counterparts. As for engines, at least NASCAR used to have the homologation rule, meaning that so long as an engine (ie the 429) was available in any car (Boss 429 Mustang) the automaker could use that engine in competition with a different car (Torino Talladega). Now the homologation rule no longer applies, since the Ford 351 is no longer available in any car or truck.

Good call, thanks for the info. I remember when the Monte Carlo changed body styles, that wing was really f'ing the Chevy drivers up.

[mercutio]

Okay, no more NASCAR, I promise. I just like to promote accurate information when I can. Let the drift discussion resume.

[malcolm]

Ford I can buy with a 351 V8 in it, I'd love to know

it won't be a 351, but you can get a wicked Ford Falcon from Australia with a 305 (or something close to that, I think). The V8 Supercar series over there is what Nascar should be, not homoginized tube-frame racecars.

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