Truck Drifting

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by drz
Well, perhaps the question should be asked - what makes a vehicle a truck? There's not really anything that distinguishes it from any other truck, except it's GM B-body roots. For that matter, the DOT classifies it as a truck, not a car.

Classification doesnt mater in this case. I am questioning if its possible to claim how great trucks drift because the Elco drifts well with a good driver. I think the more important aspec of this is the El Camino basicly has car like suspension, its low and stiff (not stiff but stiffer then a pickup would be im sure) The el camino also has a pretty long noise compaired to the light pickups thats being discussed.

What i am trying to say isnt that trucks cant drift and the elcamino is a truck, I am trying to say we cant really bring up the elcamino as proof that his light pickup will drift well. What he should do is try to make it more elcamino like in this case.

[drz]

You mean “it has a long poise”? Yes, it's much longer and heavier than most small (compact) pickups, and it's no indication of what other trucks can do or can be made to do. The ElCo does have a couple advantages over most other trucks in that it sits fairly low (for a truck) and has a car derived suspension. As for stiffness, the body rides on the frame by rubber bushings like every other truck, and rotted bushings in our case. Before we replace the decayed body bushings last week, you could push the body with your hand and see it move relative to the frame.

The ElCo is no indication of what you can do with any truck, but there shouldn't be any doubt you can get anything to drift with enough effort/$ behind it. Regardless, a successful drift truck will have modifications that make it have more car-like handling characteristics - i.e. lower c/g, heavily modified front/rear suspensions, chassis stiffening, etc. Any small/compact pickup can be made into a successful drift truck, but some will need more work than others to get there. But there comes a point where you might as well have just started with a car and saved yourself the hassle. Perhaps the money/time spent on the requisite R&D would be better spent on building a commonly built car so you can develop your skills in a known-good platform?

Also, if you're a beginner and thinking of building a drift truck, be careful that you don't fall into a common trap. Do you want to be a drifter, or do you want to drift? People who fit into the first group often make decisions like building their cars before building their skills. They also try to find ways to be different from every one else (like building a drift truck). I don't think there's really anything wrong with that, but their progress in developing their skills will be much slower than people that fit into the second group. If you really want to get good at drifting, start with a known platform and make small steps in modifying it so you can appreciate what each change does to the handling. Save the drift truck project until you are a contender and know the principles that make a good drift vehicle.

[CrazyHawaiian]

I dont really understand what you are saying. I started off with an un-proven platform and it didnt have anything to do with what other people thought. I just did it because it was fun. And I was still able to progress along with the other local guys using proven drifting platforms like the S13 or AE86. The only potential downside to using an un-proven platform is you must experiment more than the guys using the common cars. I call it a potential downside because all this experimentation can also help you learn more about your car and what affects what. I guess that could cause you to progress slower than some of the guys with proven platforms, but it depends on how you tune. Like you said making small changes and feeling the difference is essential. Most stock setups are good enough to drift from the factory (my 10+ year old IROC for example, stock everything) so you can still build your skills. I drifted on stock everything for 6 months before making any changes at all.

[drz]

Originally posted by CrazyHawaiian
I dont really understand what you are saying. I started off with an un-proven platform and it didnt have anything to do with what other people thought.

Perhaps I should elaborate. When I spoke of "known platforms" I suppose I really meant performance oriented vehicles with lots of performance-oriented common knowledge. A "known platform" as I see it is one with a good background in handling and performance, as it's only a small step to translate that general knowledge into a good drift setup. Your Camaro is definitly one of those "known platforms". My previous post was primarily focused on trucks, and I had no intention of relating it to any perfromance cars such as your Camaro. I'm sure you understand that it's far easier to count on your Camaro to become a successful drift vehicle than any truck, thanks to it's already reasonable handling and extensive autocross/road-race following. However, no truck has either of those advantages, so I don't think it's reasonable to expect a beginner drifter to find a truck to be a good stock platform to learn on (as you have your Camaro), nor to blindly stumble across a suspension/chassis combination that will yeild the same. I hope that clears up my previous post a bit.

[CrazyHawaiian]

Yeah I definately wouldn't choose a truck as my first drift vehicle, but more because its not my style, not that I think they aren't good platforms for drifting. I dont know if they are good platforms or not because I've never tried it. There are a few guys that are already doing it though. One guy is using a white Tacoma. I wonder what he thinks about using a truck to learn on. From the pics I've seen he's doing pretty good. And then I was also talking with someone building up a Dakota for drifting. I think that guy was just starting out. Also, that article in SCC where Chris Rado was talking about drifting and he plans to enter the scene in a truck, he's pretty new to drifting too. I expect to see some pretty crazy truck drifting soon.

[Toycoma]

just to let you guys know. compact pickups are harder to drift then 240s or corollas. i drove both a few weeks back at a clinic and had no problems drifting either car. the 240 had a stock KA, only mods the car had were gutted interior, coil overs, and a 2 way lsd. the thing was so easy to drift but to me, it was no where near as fun as the truck. the corolla was a little harder then the 240 but still easier then my truck, my only complaints about the kids car that i drove was it had no power steering and the stock 4age is anemic but his has a lot of miles on it so that is probably the reason.

[scirocco]

This thread is real old, but nice stroy though.

[Toycoma]

Originally posted by scirocco
This thread is real old, but nice stroy though.

so, its new to me. and i was mentioned in it so i thought i would reply.

[scirocco]

good point... sorry if i came off as a prick. I am guilty of replying to some really old threads.. some people even got angry over it.

[Toycoma]

Originally posted by scirocco
good point... sorry if i came off as a prick. I am guilty of replying to some really old threads.. some people even got angry over it. <cough>PhoPower<cough>

not a problem

[Drift For Food]

I like bringing up old threads <cough> haven't done it personally <cough> It gives you time to rethink what to say, maybe introduce new ideas to discuss, maybe change what you said previously.

I'm a very scientific thinker, so I usually gear my responses that way. Bear with me, lol.

As far as trucks go, they have some good aspects to make them a decent drifter. Some have tons of power, pretty much all of them have gobs of torque, and they can come in either rwd or awd(both). So, you can hop in a brand new F-150 or which ever brand you prefer and you can pretty much guarantee you can get the thing sideways. So what's bad? Weight, and lots of it - that and it's usually in the wrong place. They're heavy and the center of gravity is way up high.

Now, this doesn't spell doom. You can get yourself a compact pickup, drop it way down, and strip the think so clean it looks like it only made it half way through the assembly plant. Now you've got it lean and mean. Driftable? Quite definately. Competitive? Eh, maybe.

You're still left with something that was not built for the performance. You have some good aspects to work from, but at the end of the day, it may still be a big honking truck. With a good driver with some skills, that truck could probably spank quite a few 240sx'es and Corollas. However, when you put a professional level driver in a race ready compact pickup and a professional level driver in a race ready 240sx or Corolla, who do you think will win? The origin of the platform will limit what the vehicle is capable of.


Now I'm not hating truck drifters. In fact, my second drift vehicle and first rwd drifter was my bro's turned my old '88 Ford Ranger. I still had great fun drifting that piece of junk...fond memories really. I also see compact trucks to be a very affordable and very available first drift vehicle. They're cheap, they've got power and tons of torque, and there's usually enough aftermarket support to at least provide a few suspension upgrades. Heck they're even expected to look a little beat up, lol. They're also built durable enough to really take some abuse - big engines, big trannies, big brakes, strong components. The only hard part would be getting the weight off and lower and trying to get a decent weight distribution balance on them. I beat the tar out of that old Ford. It was ready for retirement when I got it. I beat it to death for the next 5 months till I got my current car, and she didn't flinch. It even drifted well enough with a rusted off front right suspension bracket - had 'er riding(and drifting) on the bumpstop for two weeks, lol. A junk yard, $12, and a friend mechanic was all I needed to get it like new again.

[Toycoma]

i dont think the weight distrubution is the biggest problem, my truck is about the same weight as a 240 as well so i think the biggest problem with using a compact pickup is the amount of steering angle it has. i could drop a couple hundred pounds maybe from the front by removing the inner fenders, battery, steel front bumper (replace with a custom fiber glass bumper?)and put on a carbon fiber hood, and maybe get some custom fiber glass front fenders made but that would all cost a lot and i would rather spend that on my cress.

[djnarush]

my experiance with driftin my truck....
Front end doesnt stick...
you need CRAZY sticky tires up front...
if you add a little weight to the bed behind rear axle, it really will help out..
with the proper mods, you can pull a drift.. but with a stock motor, its going to be hard to hold drifts going over 45mph

[Toycoma]

Originally posted by djnarush
my experiance with driftin my truck....
Front end doesnt stick...
you need CRAZY sticky tires up front...
if you add a little weight to the bed behind rear axle, it really will help out..
with the proper mods, you can pull a drift.. but with a stock motor, its going to be hard to hold drifts going over 45mph

yeah, as much as people want to believe that pickups will spin out because they are light in the back isnt quite true. on slow tight stuff, they do spin step out easy and are a lot harder to control but on high speed stuff, i actually will get under steer even with it drifting and the wheel at full counter, i think this is just a lack of steering angle though. but i think the hp isnt as much of an issue on my truck as it is your because the extended cab tacomas are like 300 pounds heavier. how much camber are you running? i had -1.5 degrees but now i have -.5 thanks to sears. i don't get to feel the effects until the 29th at the next event.

[scirocco]

sorry guys, but i just had to: http://www.badanka.com/~gsand/sdrift.wmv