Redline TV (Feedback/Improvements?)

[Ripper]

Originally posted by Feint
You sold out to Rob Cohen and his Fast and the Furious crap.You were glamorizing and exaggerating racing,which just turned a fire into an inferno.I'm pretty sure most people are aware of the impact FNF has.Can anyone tell me one postive that movie has created except from dragging more people to HIN? Everytime a Honda crashes it's a Fast and the Furious race,even if it's not a race,they're just imitating it anyways in the eyes of the media.So then The Man comes breathing down everyones neck(like it wasn't bad enough before) causing more unwanted headaches than beyond necessary just because someone got a little inspiration from a Racer X article and decided to make a mulit-million dollar movie, pushing it completely over the edge.Then he grabs two so-called icons (you and Craig) to try and keep it authentic and real.Both of you created two huge sucesses for corporate America,and two huge disasters/train wrecks for car enthusiasts.Why should anyone trust you two?

You know how nicer this car was before it got in Craigs hands? Do you know how much faster it was before it got in his hands?





When SCC got their hands on it,it ran a 14.1 quarter mile.Yeah,there's stock Skylines that haul more *Censored**Censored**Censored* than that.That Skyline seriously was messed after it fell in Craigs hands.Three nitrous bottles,wtf...Nothing like have three bottles of NAWS for a 14 second Skyline GTR.What happend to your authenticy there? And that design,I've seen blind draw better designs than that.



Yeah,you know what's ironic,Courtney's Eclipse has the same silver paint as the 2F2F Skyline."You won't find any bling bling or neons here"except my rice Eclipse with Altezzas,some cheap air bag suspension,a big stereo with a built-in navigation,DVD,and a PS2 in the dash right? If Courtney's a car person,then she would research deeper into the area she's covering.Hell,if she was a professional she wouldn't jump in without knowing the basics.Her presentation is lack lustre.She had no delivery what so ever,next to nothing enthusiam,and overall,just a piece of *Censored**Censored**Censored* to look at it.At least she's nice to watch on mute.

I guess Courtney's groupie is going to jump in and try to flame me for this.

ouch!

[FD3S_pilot]

Originally posted by Ripper
ouch!

double ouch! *as reference to Feint

[suberi_RPS13]

Re: So much anger, damn that rap music!

Originally posted by rjdevera
I believe that making such underground phenomenons more mainstream can only make it better for most everyone. ..

I agree... It may seem like a bad idea to most of you right now to make drifting a huge thing. But in the long run it means...more tracks, events, and drift shops..even more chances for American drives to compete with D1. Everyone needs to sit back and see what happens to it, instead of trying to keep it under lock and key.

And don't worry about everyone hating you for being more of a show person. Anyways everyone here probably started out in a Civic.

[nissanguy_24]

Re: Re: So much anger, damn that rap music!

Originally posted by suberi_RPS13
I agree... It may seem like a bad idea to most of you right now to make drifting a huge thing. But in the long run it means...more tracks, events, and drift shops..even more chances for American drives to compete with D1. Everyone needs to sit back and see what happens to it, instead of trying to keep it under lock and key.

And don't worry about everyone hating you for being more of a show person. Anyways everyone here probably started out in a Civic.

Show me 3 things that have gotten better when it went mainstream? and for the record. I never owned a civic or wanted a civic.

[snowblind]

do not mention touge. If you do then youll show footage of one, and ruin someones perfectly good spot. so dont. but talk about the street all you want, because your ganster *Censored**Censored**Censored* wannabe followers will do it all over busy freeways anyway just cause its the next cool thing. This is only gonna do a few things for drifters.

-give em' a bad name.

-get the police on the backs of anyone in a 240 or hachi roku.

-make the sport less accesible to the regular guys out there.

-ruin their spots.

-drive the prices of 'drift' cars even higher.

you get the picture.

like i said before we cant stop drifting from becoming what it will become, but the people feel it is their sport. And alot of people think it is being stolen from them and exploited just to make a quick buck. If the show is legit, we will like it. If the show is either fast or furious we will flame the crap out of it, but the ganster wannabes will love it and you'll(anyone involved) will make more money because you can put drifting in von dutch ads and all that *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*. your choice.

yes i am being judgemental, sorry, I usualy try not to be.

[my 1 88 u]

Originally posted by Feint
You sold out to Rob Cohen and his Fast and the Furious crap.You were glamorizing and exaggerating racing,which just turned a fire into an inferno.I'm pretty sure most people are aware of the impact FNF has.Can anyone tell me one postive that movie has created except from dragging more people to HIN? Everytime a Honda crashes it's a Fast and the Furious race,even if it's not a race,they're just imitating it anyways in the eyes of the media.So then The Man comes breathing down everyones neck(like it wasn't bad enough before) causing more unwanted headaches than beyond necessary just because someone got a little inspiration from a Racer X article and decided to make a mulit-million dollar movie, pushing it completely over the edge.Then he grabs two so-called icons (you and Craig) to try and keep it authentic and real.Both of you created two huge sucesses for corporate America,and two huge disasters/train wrecks for car enthusiasts.Why should anyone trust you two?

You know how nicer this car was before it got in Craigs hands? Do you know how much faster it was before it got in his hands?





When SCC got their hands on it,it ran a 14.1 quarter mile.Yeah,there's stock Skylines that haul more *Censored**Censored**Censored* than that.That Skyline seriously was messed after it fell in Craigs hands.Three nitrous bottles,wtf...Nothing like have three bottles of NAWS for a 14 second Skyline GTR.What happend to your authenticy there? And that design,I've seen blind draw better designs than that.



Yeah,you know what's ironic,Courtney's Eclipse has the same silver paint as the 2F2F Skyline."You won't find any bling bling or neons here"except my rice Eclipse with Altezzas,some cheap air bag suspension,a big stereo with a built-in navigation,DVD,and a PS2 in the dash right? If Courtney's a car person,then she would research deeper into the area she's covering.Hell,if she was a professional she wouldn't jump in without knowing the basics.Her presentation is lack lustre.She had no delivery what so ever,next to nothing enthusiam,and overall,just a piece of *Censored**Censored**Censored* to look at it.At least she's nice to watch on mute.

I guess Courtney's groupie is going to jump in and try to flame me for this.

this had to be said.

[Ziptyed]

Snowblind inadvertinly brought a great point. Do you think anyone who wears Von Dutch even know who the man was?I seriously doubt it. Von Dutch was a leader in the custom car scene in the 50's and 60's,did amazing paint jobs, and was one of the best pinstripers to date. My point is after fashion got a hold of the Von Dutch name, the actual legend behind the name has been forgotten by most.

[SilviaLove]

Originally posted by suberi_RPS13
And don't worry about everyone hating you for being more of a show person. Anyways everyone here probably started out in a Civic.

Big assumtions there guy...First car i ever owned was a 240sx..still do. For those that are out of touch with the grassroots drifters here's a look at what its all about <a href="http://www.BubbaDrift.com"target="_blank">BubbaDrift</a>. Ok, they have small sponserships but thats the nature of the game, especially competiting in FD. The fact is that most of the vehicle work is done in thier garage and they aren't drifting for the money, just for the challenge and love of driving.

[my 1 88 u]

Re: Re: So much anger, damn that rap music!

Originally posted by suberi_RPS13


And don't worry about everyone hating you for being more of a show person. Anyways everyone here probably started out in a Civic.

Yes, it gets me to work and back with less money spent on gas than my 240sx. That does not mean I care for boring car shows that end up doing nothing but hurt my feet. This year at NOPI they better figure out a way to keep the drifting and auto x inside the AMSW or else they wont manage to get any of my money to go in.

[rjdevera]

The Ever So Popular Fast and Furious Topic

Ouch. Tell me how you really feel. Really I don't mind.

Had to be said. I can understand that. So thus my response.

(Deep Breath)

I hate it when it gets to this so my apologies to the reasonable people in this forum.

First and foremost, I must point out that Fast and Furious was a Hollywood movie. It's suppose to be over the top and over glamourized - that's Hollywood. It was never meant to be a documentary. I was hoping against it being so Hollywood but that's what happened. The movie had it's pros and cons but I think the good outweighs the bads. I think it attracted the right decision makers to support our industry. Now people can hold events and competitions (both in the racing and show world) where the competitors actually can get something in return for all their blood, sweat, and tears. Did we get more knuckle heads that sport neon and big shopping cart wings. Of course. I know it bugs but really does it matter. If that works for them - then so be it. Here is what I would dream to see. Instead of tearing people with new found enthusiasm down, it would be cool to do our part to educate them more of the different aspects of the culture and then let them choose their path. I'd like to see places like Driftland here in the US. Do you think it would be possible to have such places if our market doesn't get bigger and more exposure. Possibly yes, but more possible if we make our market stronger. I would have died to have the current skate parks around when I used to skate. Through the ups and downs of the extreme sports - I think they have made great positive progression. Anyone remember the movie Gleaming the Cube. Some may have liked it, but the hardcore guys would have preferred the Search for Animal Chin but all of that was part of why skateboarding took off and progressed (along with ESPN and the the X-Games which came later on in time). That being said, whether it's Fast and Furious, BMI, Grip Video, or Redline TV - it's all part of what will progress our whole sport (and with this I mean circuit, drift, drag, and show) to the next levels. I have always looked at it this way. I do what I can to expose our sport and culture and to get others involved and I also do what I can to help show people what they can do after they get initially interested. These days I just get paid for it. 10 years ago - it was all because I wanted more people to love what I did as well. It's this type of progression that helps justify people and events getting sponsorship and sponsorships help people do what they want for a living. So what part of this don't you want. Yes - there will be things that you like and dislike and things that will be good to you and things that will not be but we live in reality and not some dream. Nothing gives me more joy than watching somebody do what they dream of doing. I watch Daijiro Yoshihara drive the Pac Rim Silvia or Andy Hope in the RO_JA RSX circuit car and I see the joy in the eyes. Their presence here is partly due to the fact that our sport has grown because of all that has happened.

Secondly, Craig and I were hired as consultants. That's what we did. I only worked on the first movie personally but if you have ever worked on a big production or a big company - just because you're a consultant doesn't mean they will listen to you. We were there just to give our input and to talk about things that we had gone through. They took it from there. They usually did not listen. Case in point. I sold Universal the Veilside/Versus S2000 right before the second movie. I didn't agree with Singletons vision so I opted not to be involved - I don't think Singleton cared to have me involved as well. The car had just been painted a beautiful sunburst orange just like my NSX now. I told them I hope they would keep the color. I come to check out the car a week later and the lead designer for the film made it pink with an anime character on the side. Things like this happen. There were some lines and sounds in the first movie that were way off but they had already been taped. 4 way drag race. Never would have happened at Sylmar street races but it worked for the movie, which was "a movie". For the record, I hated the graphics in the first and second movie but that's the way the decision came down. I'm not going to cry about it. I mean my car had Ninja stars in part one and pink shag seats in the second but that's what happens when you have other people making decisions which seem right to them. In their eyes the movie was not meant for the hardcore folks. It's what seemed right to them.

You must think I am the devil incarnate. That's fine. It's your opinion and I really don't care. A train wreck for car enthusiasts. Well as I said you are entitled to your opinion but I must say you act like you're the only enthusiast in existence. I am still one myself and as far as I am concerned - there are more parts for more cars out there so enthusiasts of all kinds (mild or hardcore ) can partake in the car culture movement. Some parts I think I could do without but I don't think I'm so high and mighty (see what I mean by narrow minded people) that I can say that my way is the only way and everyone else's way is lame, wack, or stupid.

The man will always breath down our necks. We were getting hounded in our Hondas and Acuras and Toyotas and Mazdas just for having an exhaust in '94 and there were a ton of people before me that endured even worse with their 510s and 240Zs. Do you think the man cares if you drive a Hachi, Sil-eighty, FD, or an Integra. Doesn't matter bub. I would only care to try and educate the man about what we do (through our legal sanctioned events) and hope that they start to recognize our sport and gives us our respect. If people in our world are partaking in illegal activities - well the man will come down on us. Ever been in a raid where they seal the exits of the in and out roads and bring trailer trucks to impound cars. Not fun but I was asking for it.

BTW - when did all the people tuning their cars become all thugs. I mean there are a number of them out there but they are not the majority. I think some of you have fallen and believe all the media stereotypes which is exactly what you don't want to happen to "your drifting scene". How do you expect people not to stereo type you guys if you are doing it yourself.

Lastly (deep breath) Some of you talk like you're Keiichi Tsuchiya or Kunimitsu (who is the racer in Japan from whom Keiichi first saw the 4 wheel drift technique in actual race conditions) - like you are the godfathers and og grass roots guys that this scene is supposedly being stolen from. Keiichi (along with Daijiro Inada) are the ones working to popularize this sport at the forefront - if anyone can lay claim to this it's them...

go ahead and hate me again but some of you frustrate me and that's the honest truth.

I'm sure I do the same to you...

All I can hope for is that somewhere down the line - we understand each other a bit better.

[WINDING Master]

Can you tell us about today's shoot?

Originally posted by rjdevera
I am actually watching a Redline shoot as I type this

[LAPD]

Re: The Ever So Popular Fast and Furious Topic

Originally posted by rjdevera
Ouch. Tell me how you really feel. Really I don't mind.

Had to be said. I can understand that. So thus my response.

(Deep Breath)

I hate it when it gets to this so my apologies to the reasonable people in this forum.

First and foremost, I must point out that Fast and Furious was a Hollywood movie. It's suppose to be over the top and over glamourized - that's Hollywood. It was never meant to be a documentary. I was hoping against it being so Hollywood but that's what happened. The movie had it's pros and cons but I think the good outweighs the bads. I think it attracted the right decision makers to support our industry. Now people can hold events and competitions (both in the racing and show world) where the competitors actually can get something in return for all their blood, sweat, and tears. Did we get more knuckle heads that sport neon and big shopping cart wings. Of course. I know it bugs but really does it matter. If that works for them - then so be it. Here is what I would dream to see. Instead of tearing people with new found enthusiasm down, it would be cool to do our part to educate them more of the different aspects of the culture and then let them choose their path. I'd like to see places like Driftland here in the US. Do you think it would be possible to have such places if our market doesn't get bigger and more exposure. Possibly yes, but more possible if we make our market stronger. I would have died to have the current skate parks around when I used to skate. Through the ups and downs of the extreme sports - I think they have made great positive progression. Anyone remember the movie Gleaming the Cube. Some may have liked it, but the hardcore guys would have preferred the Search for Animal Chin but all of that was part of why skateboarding took off and progressed (along with ESPN and the the X-Games which came later on in time). That being said, whether it's Fast and Furious, BMI, Grip Video, or Redline TV - it's all part of what will progress our whole sport (and with this I mean circuit, drift, drag, and show) to the next levels. I have always looked at it this way. I do what I can to expose our sport and culture and to get others involved and I also do what I can to help show people what they can do after they get initially interested. These days I just get paid for it. 10 years ago - it was all because I wanted more people to love what I did as well. It's this type of progression that helps justify people and events getting sponsorship and sponsorships help people do what they want for a living. So what part of this don't you want. Yes - there will be things that you like and dislike and things that will be good to you and things that will not be but we live in reality and not some dream. Nothing gives me more joy than watching somebody do what they dream of doing. I watch Daijiro Yoshihara drive the Pac Rim Silvia or Andy Hope in the RO_JA RSX circuit car and I see the joy in the eyes. Their presence here is partly due to the fact that our sport has grown because of all that has happened.

Secondly, Craig and I were hired as consultants. That's what we did. I only worked on the first movie personally but if you have ever worked on a big production or a big company - just because you're a consultant doesn't mean they will listen to you. We were there just to give our input and to talk about things that we had gone through. They took it from there. They usually did not listen. Case in point. I sold Universal the Veilside/Versus S2000 right before the second movie. I didn't agree with Singletons vision so I opted not to be involved - I don't think Singleton cared to have me involved as well. The car had just been painted a beautiful sunburst orange just like my NSX now. I told them I hope they would keep the color. I come to check out the car a week later and the lead designer for the film made it pink with an anime character on the side. Things like this happen. There were some lines and sounds in the first movie that were way off but they had already been taped. 4 way drag race. Never would have happened at Sylmar street races but it worked for the movie, which was "a movie". For the record, I hated the graphics in the first and second movie but that's the way the decision came down. I'm not going to cry about it. I mean my car had Ninja stars in part one and pink shag seats in the second but that's what happens when you have other people making decisions which seem right to them. In their eyes the movie was not meant for the hardcore folks. It's what seemed right to them.

You must think I am the devil incarnate. That's fine. It's your opinion and I really don't care. A train wreck for car enthusiasts. Well as I said you are entitled to your opinion but I must say you act like you're the only enthusiast in existence. I am still one myself and as far as I am concerned - there are more parts for more cars out there so enthusiasts of all kinds (mild or hardcore ) can partake in the car culture movement. Some parts I think I could do without but I don't think I'm so high and mighty (see what I mean by narrow minded people) that I can say that my way is the only way and everyone else's way is lame, wack, or stupid.

The man will always breath down our necks. We were getting hounded in our Hondas and Acuras and Toyotas and Mazdas just for having an exhaust in '94 and there were a ton of people before me that endured even worse with their 510s and 240Zs. Do you think the man cares if you drive a Hachi, Sil-eighty, FD, or an Integra. Doesn't matter bub. I would only care to try and educate the man about what we do (through our legal sanctioned events) and hope that they start to recognize our sport and gives us our respect. If people in our world are partaking in illegal activities - well the man will come down on us. Ever been in a raid where they seal the exits of the in and out roads and bring trailer trucks to impound cars. Not fun but I was asking for it.

BTW - when did all the people tuning their cars become all thugs. I mean there are a number of them out there but they are not the majority. I think some of you have fallen and believe all the media stereotypes which is exactly what you don't want to happen to "your drifting scene". How do you expect people not to stereo type you guys if you are doing it yourself.

Lastly (deep breath) Some of you talk like you're Keiichi Tsuchiya or Kunimitsu (who is the racer in Japan from whom Keiichi first saw the 4 wheel drift technique in actual race conditions) - like you are the godfathers and og grass roots guys that this scene is supposedly being stolen from. Keiichi (along with Daijiro Inada) are the ones working to popularize this sport at the forefront - if anyone can lay claim to this it's them...

go ahead and hate me again but some of you frustrate me and that's the honest truth.

I'm sure I do the same to you...

All I can hope for is that somewhere down the line - we understand each other a bit better.

WELL SAID

[craiglieberman]

Feint clearly doesn't get it

First off, kudos to RJ for taking the time to post. He's more polite than I am, so let me address one person in particular: feint.

Dude, you're a hater, plain and simple. You don't a THING about what you're talking about.

FYI; I've been in the automotive business since 1982.
FYI: I've been racing in one form or another since 1990.
FYI: In the mid 80's, I was street racing with my Datsun Z cars before any of you ever heard the term "import."
FYI: I was drifting before it was called drifting...it was called "powersliding" and yes, on a deserted canyon road. The year? 1986, so don't accuse me of being in it for a buck, I've paid my dues in blood, sweat, experience and traffic tickets.
FYI: I have an SCCA license, have driven literally hundreds of top cars and done it on racetracks in three countries, and have made more than 500 drag racing passes since 1986. I've had a 10 second Mustang, a 12 second Impala SS on N20 and a 12 second Supra, among other cars. RJ has done even more than that. THIS IS OUR LIVING. Forgive us if we dismiss your claims as to us being "not authentic" as mindless drivel.
FYI: The Skyline was NEVER built to be fast, it was built as a sponsorship marketing tool for the companies involved...an extreme example of the best tuner car around with some of the best most exotic stuff around. 99% of the stuff on that car was straight from Japan. The APC sticker from the movie was a paid product placement deal, so if you think APC sucks, email them, not me. Do you cry to Jeff Gordon if you don't like DuPont paint? I was paid very handsomely to build the car this way, and I enjoyed every minute of it and I would do it again. Sponsors got value, it was on the cover of a dozen magazines worldwide so I guess you could say I did my job. Don't like it? Great...go buy your own and 'show me how it's done.' Otherwise, try to understand the concept of a purpose built car: you don't cry to drag racers telling them that their cars don't drift well, right? Those are purpose built cars, just like my Skyline was.

FYI: When SCC tested it, they tested it in 2WD format. If you did ANY research at all,you'd know that the 4WD was disabled so that stunt drivers could drift the cars. That EXACT car ran a 12.2 in the 1/4 mile when Motorex had it.

FYI: My 'fast' car is parked in my garage...a 550hp 996TT and yes, I've had it at both the drag strip and Willow Springs. Paid for with money I made from my work consulting for companies within the industry.

If you could show that I was taking money I made in this sport and spending it on crap like stocks or such, you'd could call me a sellout. In reality, I spend about $40,000 a year on mods for car, on AVERAGE. Guess you could say I contribute.

Now, what are you credentials? How many magazine cover cars have you built? How many companies have hired you as a consultant? What racing credentials do you hold? How many race cars have you built? Until the answer is at least "two" to each of these questions, you'll forgive me if I dismiss the rest of your posts as the opinions of someone who has no real experience.

Selling out? Who do you work for? You sold out to them. How much do you spend a year on car mods? See my point? We give back a bunch, more than our fair share. As for the movie, we were paid to do a service, so quit your mindless whining about how WE did XXX....if you think F&F did all this, you're looking at the negative and not the positive. This makes you narrow minded in every sense of the word.

For the idgits who still insist that F&F brought down "the man" on street racing, I say "good." If you're dumb enough to participate in illegal activities, you're asking for it. If you're dumb enough to do it right after such a movie comes out, you're dumber yet. If you're even dumber to allow yourselves to be videotaped in the process, congrats, you and R Kelly have something in common. ("oh, I'd never do that.") Yeah, right. The video stores are filled with DVD's of dumba$$es that do it for FREE. Smart, real smart.

As for the "one positive" thing the movie has created, I can name 25, but for the sake of space, I'll mention but a handful:
There are more automotive shows than ever before, giving viewers a choice.
Corporate sponsors have come in...including into D1, which would NEVER have been possible if F&F did not break new ground.
Microsoft is sponsoring events because of the excitement of the movie;
In fact, drifting as a sport wouldn't have gotten a dime in sponsorship if F&F had not broadened the size of the market;
MTV is doing projects because of the movie;
More magazines exist now because of the movie;
More performance companies can offer a greater range of products, because of the movie;
Since the tuner market has grown so much, some of our favorite tuner companies straight from Japan are now increasing their presence here because of the movie;

The bottom line: YOU NOW HAVE more choices and more capital being infused into this sport because of that movie. If you don't like it, great, race illegally in your "favorite spot" and do it with no money in your pocket.

You don't see any pro drifters handing their sponsorship checks back, do you? They know what I know: doing what you love is great, doing it for a paycheck is a dream come true. You should be so lucky.

Just for a second, stop being narrow minded and look at the good that has come from this (bad) movie. Did RJ and I like it? Not really, it had its flaws. Was it good for the sport? Most assuredly. Did the mainstream media try to capitalize the negatives? Of course. They don't report the good news, only the bad...that's the liberal media for you.

[yarzan]

Re: Feint clearly doesn't get it

Originally posted by craiglieberman
First off, kudos to RJ for taking the time to post. He's more polite than I am, so let me address one person in particular: feint.

Dude, you're a hater, plain and simple. You don't a THING about what you're talking about.

FYI; I've been in the automotive business since 1982.
FYI: I've been racing in one form or another since 1990.
FYI: In the mid 80's, I was street racing with my Datsun Z cars before any of you ever heard the term "import."
FYI: I was drifting before it was called drifting...it was called "powersliding" and yes, on a deserted canyon road. The year? 1986, so don't accuse me of being in it for a buck, I've paid my dues in blood, sweat, experience and traffic tickets.
FYI: I have an SCCA license, have driven literally hundreds of top cars and done it on racetracks in three countries, and have made more than 500 drag racing passes since 1986. I've had a 10 second Mustang, a 12 second Impala SS on N20 and a 12 second Supra, among other cars. RJ has done even more than that. THIS IS OUR LIVING. Forgive us if we dismiss your claims as to us being "not authentic" as mindless drivel.
FYI: The Skyline was NEVER built to be fast, it was built as a sponsorship marketing tool for the companies involved...an extreme example of the best tuner car around with some of the best most exotic stuff around. 99% of the stuff on that car was straight from Japan. The APC sticker from the movie was a paid product placement deal, so if you think APC sucks, email them, not me. Do you cry to Jeff Gordon if you don't like DuPont paint? I was paid very handsomely to build the car this way, and I enjoyed every minute of it and I would do it again. Sponsors got value, it was on the cover of a dozen magazines worldwide so I guess you could say I did my job. Don't like it? Great...go buy your own and 'show me how it's done.' Otherwise, try to understand the concept of a purpose built car: you don't cry to drag racers telling them that their cars don't drift well, right? Those are purpose built cars, just like my Skyline was.

FYI: When SCC tested it, they tested it in 2WD format. If you did ANY research at all,you'd know that the 4WD was disabled so that stunt drivers could drift the cars. That EXACT car ran a 12.2 in the 1/4 mile when Motorex had it.

FYI: My 'fast' car is parked in my garage...a 550hp 996TT and yes, I've had it at both the drag strip and Willow Springs. Paid for with money I made from my work consulting for companies within the industry.

If you could show that I was taking money I made in this sport and spending it on crap like stocks or such, you'd could call me a sellout. In reality, I spend about $40,000 a year on mods for car, on AVERAGE. Guess you could say I contribute.

Now, what are you credentials? How many magazine cover cars have you built? How many companies have hired you as a consultant? What racing credentials do you hold? How many race cars have you built? Until the answer is at least "two" to each of these questions, you'll forgive me if I dismiss the rest of your posts as the opinions of someone who has no real experience.

Selling out? Who do you work for? You sold out to them. How much do you spend a year on car mods? See my point? We give back a bunch, more than our fair share. As for the movie, we were paid to do a service, so quit your mindless whining about how WE did XXX....if you think F&F did all this, you're looking at the negative and not the positive. This makes you narrow minded in every sense of the word.

For the idgits who still insist that F&F brought down "the man" on street racing, I say "good." If you're dumb enough to participate in illegal activities, you're asking for it. If you're dumb enough to do it right after such a movie comes out, you're dumber yet. If you're even dumber to allow yourselves to be videotaped in the process, congrats, you and R Kelly have something in common. ("oh, I'd never do that.") Yeah, right. The video stores are filled with DVD's of dumba$$es that do it for FREE. Smart, real smart.

As for the "one positive" thing the movie has created, I can name 25, but for the sake of space, I'll mention but a handful:
There are more automotive shows than ever before, giving viewers a choice.
Corporate sponsors have come in...including into D1, which would NEVER have been possible if F&F did not break new ground.
Microsoft is sponsoring events because of the excitement of the movie;
In fact, drifting as a sport wouldn't have gotten a dime in sponsorship if F&F had not broadened the size of the market;
MTV is doing projects because of the movie;
More magazines exist now because of the movie;
More performance companies can offer a greater range of products, because of the movie;
Since the tuner market has grown so much, some of our favorite tuner companies straight from Japan are now increasing their presence here because of the movie;

The bottom line: YOU NOW HAVE more choices and more capital being infused into this sport because of that movie. If you don't like it, great, race illegally in your "favorite spot" and do it with no money in your pocket.

You don't see any pro drifters handing their sponsorship checks back, do you? They know what I know: doing what you love is great, doing it for a paycheck is a dream come true. You should be so lucky.

Just for a second, stop being narrow minded and look at the good that has come from this (bad) movie. Did RJ and I like it? Not really, it had its flaws. Was it good for the sport? Most assuredly. Did the mainstream media try to capitalize the negatives? Of course. They don't report the good news, only the bad...that's the liberal media for you.

a few things bothered me.... first of all i dont think MTV would do such a great job with this.. "look guys, Yellowcard can drift!" unless they want 14 yr old girls to get in on drifting, then MTV should jsut stay away from drifting. Microsoft doing track events???? man, they'll do anything for money, wouldnt they. also, i dont think you can measure a persons skill and ability by how many magazine covers they've been on.

So will an SR20 fit in my civic?

[amejin_japan]

Whatever Leiberman. You were a P.I.M.P before it was pimping... it was called "wearing jewelry." You were probably drag racing when it was called "conducting one of them there horse-less wagons"
You were drifting before dori-kin.

You are barking up the wrong tree here my man. It's really no wonder you have to go to outside markets because you've obviously alienated the core market.