Redline TV (Feedback/Improvements?)

[yarzan]

Re: Ahh, this is growing old...

Originally posted by craiglieberman
Quote: Lieberman you claim to be one of us but you are so clearly not, your list of cars.. hell it doesnt even include a japanese car. And though i can deffenately [sic] respect our brothers in the eurocar scene and apreciate [sic]and respect the vehichles its hardly an inexpensive rwd car. And sence [sic] your[sic] all about the tuner market, its hardly [sic]a tuner car! End quote.

I found this portion of your thread difficult to understand....but this section, like the rest of your post, seem to harp on your belief that I'm trying to be something I'm not.

Quite the contrary; what I have been trying to communicate is that I have BEEN THERE, DONE THAT. If you don't think sliding a 240Z around canyon roads in 1986 is the same as Touge today, you're out in left field. My point was, I DID IT ALREADY and I believe this, among other experiences, make me qualified to consult for so many companies. I hope one day you are afforded the same opportunities.

By my own admission, I'm at a different point in my life than most drifters. European cars and more upscale brands are my current preference. I'm not telling you what cars I own to impress anyone, I relayed this point because I felt it proves that as car geeks get older, we still love nice cars. I don't claim to be one of you, I claim to have come from a similar background and to prove that I have paid my dues. It pisses ME off when young people think they've done everything and know everything at 21.

As for the fellow who says he'll still have a 240 in his garage in 20 years: yeah, sure. In 20 years, you'll most assuredly be able to buy any car you want, and most tend to want to broaden your horizons but we ARE alike in the sense that like me, you most likely enjoy the punch that only a turbo'd car can provide...your taste just gets a little more expensive as you mature, trust me.

As for the gentlemen who said "you don't even own a Japanese car,", umm, hello? Been there, done that, too. Owned a Supra and a Skyline. Now I gotta buy a $6000 to prove I'm cool? Great, I'll take a dozen...scratch that, I like mine with air conditioning, and most drift cars don't have a/c anymore ;-) I noticed no one bothered to answer my questions about their age, or their credentials, nor do they even post under their real name, yet they're supposed to be credible because they post on a forum?

To be blunt, as one fellow pointed out, Redline is NOT 100% about drifting; it is designed to expose a wide range of people to the PERFORMANCE aspects of the tuner world. Drifting is a MINISCULE part of the tuner performance world. All of the drifting events outside of D1GP have drawn very modest sized audiences.

Is it cool? Hell yes, and I love every minute of it and I'm glad we're covering it. Hell, we show your boy Alex Pfeiffer.

I am astonished and mortified that so many people aren't more ecstatic to see drifting covered on a REAL network and as in depth as we are.

I did not come into this forum searching for opinions, I came to respond to bogus assumptions, myths, misinformation and questions.

You may want to consider this: without sponsors, and without the creators of this program, there would currently be ZERO coverage of your beloved drifting on American TV. Tragic that few realize this. With respect to Super2NR and other import programming, trust me when I tell you that even though some of us liked it, most did not, and it was pulled from the air. Clearly, something was wrong (although for the record, I thought some of the content was great).

Again, you're free to get your company to sponsor and create a TV program...if you think you can do it better and make money, tell me what channel to watch. Its' easy to sit back from a computer and cast aspersions when you don't grasp the big picture which includes logistics, network TV requirements, the ability to sell programming, sponsorship relationships, etc.

You don't think we wanted to show touge? You think any sponsor would buy commercials on a TV program showcasing illegal activities? You think anyone would be dumb enough to allow their secret spot to be revealed on camera? You don't think we wanted to go to Japan and cover cars on a Japanese road? Did you even notice that unlike other sponsors, MagnaFlow freely allowed competitor's logos to remain visible. Why? We wanted to cover the whole sport.

There's a lot going on behind the scenes that you nothing about.

Look, if you don't like or my cars, great....at least be smart enough to MEET me before you say you hate me...makes you look less narrow minded.

For Ziptyed, let me just say that you are EXACTLY the type of viewer we want: the passionate who don't hate, they love...they love the sport and all things associated with it.

To Jasper: make us proud, guys. Hopefully, Redline will catch up with you next season.

So tune in this week and send your hate emails to me, clieberman@magnaflow.com

first of all, i know that i will have my first car with me always, 97 auto camry. i think thats what he meant by him still having the 240.

No AC? who cares! it saves weight.

im 17, i wont reveal my real name, ive drifted a car slightly and it scared the sh*t outta me, but i love watching it. ive been to 2 drift days and the feb D1.

well if u dont want our opinions, which is what a lot of this stuff is, than how do u plan on improving the show? i thought it was for drifters by drifters, if u dont know what they like/dislike how will you make it for drifters?

i dont hate you, i just dont like whats happened to the import car culture after FnF, and i dont want the same to happen to drifting.

god for magnaflow... i dont tihnk anyone cares. displaying other peoples logos doesnt reveal all the aspects of it still.

my 2 cents.

EDIT
P.S. I dont care about nissaguys spelling... if i get his point thats good enough for me.

[craiglieberman]

Thanks for your views

Snowblind: I didn't attack his spelling, I pointed those out because invariably, someone will blame me for it....it happens on every freakin' forum.

You respect NissanGuy, that's fine...but why? Because he was on this board before I was? Because he drifts now, even though I did it 18 years ago? Because he's "one of us?" Doesn't make him or anyone else right or even credible and being the longest standing member of a chat board doesn't provide credibility.

Utterly bewildering.

Express opinions, fine....but qualify them as that, opinions. Kudos to you for expressing your very real opinion that drifting will get blinged out. I respect your opinion.

Isn't the whole point of this thread to give constructive feedback? Yet we're supposed to tolerate the views displayed here, from people who have not provided any shred of evidence as to their credibility with no other support than "I was here first so I must be right?"

Offering criticisms based on nonsensical opinions of people with no real background, experience or even (in some cases) a shred of respect is not helping make the program better, its' discrediting those who choose to engage in such activity.

And drifting IS a miniscule part of the tuner performance world...I know its' a bigger portion of Drifting.com's world, but in the grand scheme of the $3.2B tuner market, its' a tiny, tiny piece of the pie (although a delicious piece).

Guys...if you want to help, may I suggest the following:

Here's what I don't like:
Here's how I'd like to see if fixed:

Wow! Wouldn't that be cool?

We'll do our part, you do yours. Or not.

[nissanguy_24]

Re: Ahh, this is growing old...

First of all I never tried to hide who i am. Most people here know me by name. I am Robert Hale of Bakersfield, California i am 21 years of age. I drive a white 240sx coupe. My credentials? i supose that would be drifting for close to a year and a half.

I dont claim to be the drift king but i claim to be exactly what most of us on here are. Grass roots drifters, with out enough money to buy expensive european cars. I scrape money together for tires and repairs so i can keep doing what i like to do. I, like most drifters, participate in illegal activities and i admit so with out hesitation. This is the nature of the beast that you have chosen to make a show about. Remember for drifters by drifters?

Originally posted by craiglieberman

but this section, like the rest of your post, seem to harp on your belief that I'm trying to be something I'm not.

Quite the contrary; what I have been trying to communicate is that I have BEEN THERE, DONE THAT..


....I don't claim to be one of you, I claim to have come from a similar background and to prove that I have paid my dues. It pisses ME off when young people think they've done everything and know everything at 21.

Yeah im sure you've been there and done that. So for drifters by drifters? so who are these drifters its by? i think you just picked up on the newest trend and desided to grace our presence with your self. We dont need or want you.

Originally posted by craiglieberman

As for the fellow who says he'll still have a 240 in his garage in 20 years: yeah, sure. In 20 years, you'll most assuredly be able to buy any car you want, and most tend to want to broaden your horizons but we ARE alike in the sense that like me, you most likely enjoy the punch that only a turbo'd car can provide...your taste just gets a little more expensive as you mature, trust me.

You obviously dont love a car like i love the S13. I will always have one in my garage. My taste arent based on whats comfortable or what will impress people my taste are based on a honest to goodness love of the Nissan S13. Thats why im a Nissan guy.

Originally posted by craiglieberman

As for the gentlemen who said "you don't even own a Japanese car,", umm, hello? Been there, done that, too. Owned a Supra and a Skyline. Now I gotta buy a $6000 to prove I'm cool? Great, I'll take a dozen...scratch that, I like mine with air conditioning, and most drift cars don't have a/c anymore ;-) I noticed no one bothered to answer my questions about their age, or their credentials, nor do they even post under their real name, yet they're supposed to be credible because they post on a forum?

Wow a supra and a skyline! oh wow im so impressed. Not only do i look up to you now, but i realize your just one of us! we all have a Supra (mark IV im sure..) and Skyline (R34 no doubt) in our garages!

Thats sarcasm by the way, incase you find that hard to pick up on.

Originally posted by craiglieberman

To be blunt, as one fellow pointed out, Redline is NOT 100% about drifting; it is designed to expose a wide range of people to the PERFORMANCE aspects of the tuner world. Drifting is a MINISCULE part of the tuner performance world. All of the drifting events outside of D1GP have drawn very modest sized audiences....

For drifters by Drifters... How about by Craig for Craig's wallet. Anything to be the "originator" of a new trend right? thats why your in all this right? you want to be able to claim you brought this to the mainstream, the same way you did with fast and the furious. Because that deffenately seems to be the case.

Originally posted by craiglieberman

....I am astonished and mortified that so many people aren't more ecstatic to see drifting covered on a REAL network and as in depth as we are.

That doesnt surprise me in the slightest! you aparently seem to think we should all be grateful! oh yeah the great lieberman visited our little site and desided to make something of our little game we play called drifting! i cant wait!

Originally posted by craiglieberman

I did not come into this forum searching for opinions, I came to respond to bogus assumptions, myths, misinformation and questions.

Then get the hell out. If you wont listen to drifter's opinions of your 'drifting show' then your not a very good producer type guy are you? That or the show is obviously just a sell out. This is the largest drifting website you should be apealing to these young kids you put down, they will be the ones buying your sponsors goods in the future. You need them, not the other way around. I hope your sponsors see this and realize how negatively we are now viewing this show. Mainly due to your comments.

Originally posted by craiglieberman

You may want to consider this: without sponsors, and without the creators of this program, there would currently be ZERO coverage of your beloved drifting on American TV. Tragic that few realize this. With respect to Super2NR and other import programming, trust me when I tell you that even though some of us liked it, most did not, and it was pulled from the air. Clearly, something was wrong (although for the record, I thought some of the content was great)....

Im glad you mentioned sponsors because your right. You dont seem to get it though. We do not need drifting on TV. Your show was going to be considered only a bonus nothing more if it was good. But its becomming obvious that the promise of a show for drifters by drifters is not true. I will not view this program nor will i buy any products from your sponsors. I will ask my friends to do the same, i doubt it will be hard to convence them at this point. You need to understand we dont need or want you in drifting.

Originally posted by craiglieberman

....Look, if you don't like or my cars, great....at least be smart enough to MEET me before you say you hate me...makes you look less narrow minded.

Sir i am very happy i've never had the displeasure. I hope to keep it that way. If our correspondents arent enough to understand what a miserable man you are in your mind, Then thats fine, but its enough for me.

Originally posted by craiglieberman

So tune in this week and send your hate emails to me, clieberman@magnaflow.com

No thank you.. And Magnaflow i hope you see this thread and see what real drifters think, Perhaps you will put your money elseware. Maybe you can get with a drifting team and sponsor them. Thats the best way to get your name out there trust me.


Oh yes and Lieberman you dont understand why yarzan or others respect me? it has nothing to do with how long i've been here or even my post count or skill level. However its clear they respect me for having qualities you dont understand.

Your line about us hiding behind a webforum is bull. I hide from no one, nor have i ever made my identity a secret. That is why i put my response there first thing on this reply.

- Robert Dwayne Hale

PS: Why are you on here anyways? none of us are going to suddenly like you, infact you've made alot more people mad with your attitude including me who was originally nuetral to you.. Why dont you just go and ruin someone else's sport. I hear time attack is getting big in japan.

[yarzan]

nissanguy, couldnt have said it better myself

craig: here's a hint: STOP! youre getting more and more ppl to hate you. seriously youve lost a LOT of my respect in the past few days. coming in here thinking that because u owned a supra and a GTR u think that u can take responsibility for drifting. another thing, pal, people in Japan have been doing it waaaaay before 1986, and im sure there were a few here in the states that did it too.

[spock]

Re: Thanks for your views

Originally posted by craiglieberman
And drifting IS a miniscule part of the tuner performance world...I know its' a bigger portion of Drifting.com's world, but in the grand scheme of the $3.2B tuner market, its' a tiny, tiny piece of the pie (although a delicious piece).

I think this is what people are trying to get:
Redline TV is supposed to be a show geared towards performance, right? If you're going to cover things like NOPI Nats and HIN, it's really nothing but show cars, and performance tends to be a MINISCULE part of the show car equation. Now I haven't been following the "import scene" here in America lately, but I'm assuming the majority of the people making up the tuner market are the ones wanting to flaunt their egos and pour tons of money into their cars and are more concerned with decibels than horsepower. You say this show will use drifting as a backdrop and is "for drifters by drifters", or something like that, and performance-minded enthusiast, your supposed audience, could care less about a vomit-colored Honda with jDM tYtE Saliva (yes it's spelled wrong) front end. You say we should be thrilled to have a tuner show on network tv and yet from what we've seen and what's been said it's just like every pile of crap that came before it. So what it basically boils down to is if you can make something along the lines of BMI or Option, keep it down to earth and keep far, far away from anything fast and furious you'll have a winner.

[Ziptyed]

EXACTLY.

[craiglieberman]

Well, there you have it.

Quote: Most people here know me by name. I am Robert Hale of Bakersfield, California i am 21 years of age. I drive a white 240sx coupe. My credentials? i supose that would be drifting for close to a year and a half. I dont claim to be the drift king but i claim to be exactly what most of us on here are. Grass roots drifters, with out enough money to buy expensive european cars. I scrape money together for tires and repairs so i can keep doing what i like to do. End

My friend, how are you missing my point that I too shared a similar background? I too struggled with no money and a mediocre car. I've been there. With all due respect, you posted your name only because I mentioned whereas I post in such a manner from the outset and have gone a step further in outlining my background. You'll forgive me if I've questioned your credentials and again, with all due respect, let us just agree that I've covered a few more miles than you have.

The comedy here is that people like you come and go and I've debated hundreds of people like you on forums. Most are gone in 2-3 years. I'm still here 22 years into the game. Why? I understand more than you may think, I work only for clients who make/sell quality products and I make my clients money.

It seems our fundamental difference is that you think I (we) are trying to exploit people....in fact, we're trying to showcase the immense talent and passion of these people. Hell, if you came up to us tomorrow at a drift event and had an exciting story tell, chances are it'd be your face on the tube.

Quote: i think you just picked up on the newest trend and desided to grace our presence with your self. We dont need or want you. End.

You're not reading my original posts about the program's goal or content. As for picking up on the newest trend, I'm very proud that the sponsors have decided to showcase this exciting new sport to the world, because IWE TOO LOVE IT and the sponsors believe its' worthy of showcasing. I'm sure some sponsors might be MORE concerned at the lack of maturity showcased by SOME members of this forum in particular, but hey, we all take forums for what they are: bathroom walls.

Quote: You obviously dont love a car like i love the S13. I will always have one in my garage. My taste arent based on whats comfortable or what will impress people my taste are based on a honest to goodness love of the Nissan S13. Thats why im a Nissan guy. End.

Wrong again...I've loved many cars and to quote you from earlier, loving cars doesn't make you a purist...or even right. To discount the notion that I've owned top Japanese cars when you called me out for not owning Japanese cars in an earlier post is comical. Like I said, I need to own a 240SX to be 'cool' in this world? I'm not currently at that stage in my life.

Quote: For drifters by Drifters... How about by Craig for Craig's wallet. Anything to be the "originator" of a new trend right? thats why your in all this right? you want to be able to claim you brought this to the mainstream, the same way you did with fast and the furious. Because that deffenately seems to be the case. End quote.

Offensive, to say the least. In fact, I make ZERO from this show. NOT A PENNY! I'm doing for the love of the tuner industry and because I believe it'll be great someday. Like it or not, I'm part of a team that is in control of what you're watching. You'd THINK you'd want to spend perhaps just a moment giving some thoughtful views, but I'm happy to engage you in such a dialog so long as you try so hard to prove that you're right simply because you have had more posts than I.

Quote: That doesnt surprise me in the slightest! you aparently seem to think we should all be grateful! oh yeah the great lieberman visited our little site and desided to make something of our little game we play called drifting! i cant wait! End quote.

Not grateful but...how about supportive? Critical in a positive fashion? Any of these characteristics would be a welcome change from needless hostility.

Quote: hope your sponsors see this and realize how negatively we are now viewing this show. Mainly due to your comments. End quote.

Trust me....they're watching more closely the unprofessional demeanor of some of the same people that have contacted us privately by email for sponsorships. I know this may come as a surprise to you, but we've received dozens of emails praising us for our choice to support the tuner world with such programming, while other 'name brands' have done nothing but sell cheesy products to capitalize on the F&F craze. In fact, MagnaFlow and Modified believe so greatly in the importance of producing a quality program, they've funded it 100%. Where are the other brands? Lining their pockets? You be the judge.


Quote: No thank you.. And Magnaflow i hope you see this thread and see what real drifters think, Perhaps you will put your money elseware. Maybe you can get with a drifting team and sponsor them. Thats the best way to get your name out there trust me. End quote.

Is this your vast expertise talking? Do you even understand what is necessary to attract a sponsor, which of course is needed to run a pro team? And like it or not, sponsors are needed to go pro. FYI: To date, only a handful of US teams have committed to running a full season around the country. Going to a local drift event or 3-5 local drift dates does not make a pro team. Guys like Jasper Performance are doing it grassroots style...and my congrats....but a full national tour is what's needed to go pro and to attract sponsors. THAT'S what part of this show is about. Our target audience is NOT the drift fan with a cute avatar on a forum.

Quote: Oh yes and Lieberman you dont understand why yarzan or others respect me? it has nothing to do with how long i've been here or even my post count or skill level. However its clear they respect me for having qualities you dont understand. End.

You're right...if being sarcastic and disrespectful is among those qualities, I don't understand. But I'd be willing to bet that most people on this forum respect people like Alex who has played with the big boys...and who refrains from posting trash on forums.

There's a guy with a future in this sport.

[nissanguy_24]

I knew you wouldnt understand why people respect me on this site.

With all due respect, you posted your name only because I mentioned whereas I post in such a manner from the outset and have gone a step further in outlining my background.

I didnt sign up with my name no. However you need only check my profile to get that information With all due respect... which is absolutely zero in my book... you are simply being a jerk and trying to show us how much more you know about this sport then us.. yet you called drifting powersliding...

You mention alex has a future in this sport? My fear is there wont be a sport of drifting if you continue to infect it with your attitude and clouded vision for the future. And if your really an Alex supporter this show should be paying HIM to fix your little mess. It would give you a chunk of respectability. But alas the great Lieberman will never step aside and awknowledge someone else may be more knowledable

Your show wont market to us poor drifters on forums and such with our "cute little icons" thats fine We wont watch it.. Oh yes and your comment about these are the companys desiding what i watch? what the hell does that mean? i simply wont watch it, or ill put a option dvd in. its not a problem for me simply to turn off the TV.

The fact is most of your post is trash i dont feel like responding to because i feel others will anyways. So will you be paying the show for the loss of viewers and sponsorship dollars your costing them?

Im starting a boycott of this show. I will not watch it until Lieberman's connection with the show has ended AND a professional like Alex or someone else is appointed as a consultant. If anyone is following me with this please state so... needless to say im in the boycott.

[yarzan]

why do I respect nissanguy? simply, because he has earned it! I dont repsect you (anymore) becaues you think you deserve it without any work here. If you would have come in humbly, like Stephan Papadakis, for example, he jsut posted a few pics of his 240 and was happy ot answer questions, than trhat might have been a different story. But the way you came in reminds me of the woderful Rado thread, look that thread up, you might learn something.

[nissanguy_24]

I encourage everyone to check out this post.. http://www.drifting.com/forums/showt...&threadid=6083

[spock]

Quick! Call 911... 'Cause someone's on fire!

[P1STON2ROTARY]

This is getting pathetic.

I honestly dont believe you should be allowed to consult anything in this sport. A real driver should be the target consultant. Im starting to believe you just want the negative attention, or the attention. This is putting you out. Honestly, your not worth talking about. Your not a driver, and have no validation here. This thread is primarily to discuss the feedback of the show, not your personal flaws. Carrying on fights with forum members is pointless, you keep coming back with something to prove, for example: like you deserve respect. What driving respect have you earned? A flash back to the 80s about something you possibly attempted isn't paying your dues. As an honest suggestion take what you can get as feedback for your show and be done. We will gladly give you feedback on your television show, anytime if you need it.... but this conclusionless on going battle is worthless, and seems to only be detremental to your image. The image you came here to clear up.

[SilviaLove]

humm...interesting turn of events..I'll still give the show a chance since its so to early to decided based on what has already be presented, attacking people on this form has made me think though...Nevertheless, here are my original thoughts:

And drifting IS a miniscule part of the tuner performance world...

I don't follow the tuner scene but i have seen information that stated, something to the affect, drifting has given new light to the youth orientated import market. I really do believe this because over the last past year, more than a year actually, drifting has been in the spotlight of many if not all the tuner mags. I know this because I look for articles about my car and anything i would be interested in a few that are performance orientated, such sport compact car, turbo, etc..all have had segments or articles, even my favorite mag Grassrootsmotorsports has showcased it.
The most popular drift cars are japanese engineered, so both groups of people, lowridereuro/tuner and drifters are instantaneously placed in the same category, i.e. the tuner market. When speaking about the subject to people within the tuner market everyone that learns about drifting either wants to drift or watch drifting, even girls; I think thats great. So, yes..it maybe perceived small by you, i'm not sure why though, but its going to make up the majority of the tuner market in the future, heck its being pushed by people in the tuner market, that should be sign that it is the next big thing, or has that already begun?..of course it has.

[tight_corner]

Man Craig you are just a big *Censored**Censored**Censored* fuk!!!!!!!


Nissan guy please don't ban me for this please....


F&F sucks balls wow honda civics with green neons going under trucks wtf is that supoose to be all those hondas do is bachhhhhhhhhh bachhhhhhhhhhh and *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*. They are slow and guy and ugly like you!!!


Hope you dont make the fast and the furious 3 *Censored**Censored**Censored* since its in japan what u gone make paul walker the king of the touge.... Brian is a great driver no really he has a r34 and he crashed that thing like four or five times... ONLY


If you are such a rich great driver and you own a supra or a skyline why dont you show us videos of you getting sideways or somtin... dont show us pics tho because pics aint *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*.... so if u want respect show us vids....






I'm out peace

BARTOSZ MAKOWSKI

[nissanguy_24]

Well man you have a cool car there, i wont ban you or sugest it, but i do wish to see you not fall into his trap of using "foul languagE" or whatever and resorting to personal attacks. Instead just join my boycott. just consider this a warning okay? But seriously I think guys like lieberman want you to fall into using personal attacks and stuff. He wants to look morally superior... So make sure you watch that.