Front-biased AWD question...

[jsigone]

I'm pretty sure the DSM's rear section has no sensors. You can get a 4 bolt rear diff with axles for bout 400. They are alot more common and easier to come by then the all trac rear ends.

[mranlet]

Thanks Jsigone

I would imagine that they would all be somewhat interchangable (minus the complications in fitting driveshafts) - does anyone know about the 3S-GTE or SR20's setups and sensors?

I might end up using a 4G63T, but I'd rather have a Nissan or Toyota piece in my car for reliability's sake...


-MR

[jsigone]

A few years back there was someone who built a rex with a 4g63T motor in it, but only fwd. How much power are oyu looking to make? The 4g63 is the motor of the three you are picking from. That will save you from having to rebuild. I'm boosting 21psi on pump gas with my t4/mitsu hybrid turbo.

[mranlet]

well, 400hp reliably would be awesome.

Anything above the 200 mark would make me very happy. I'm certianly intrigued by the amount of power that can be made by the 4G, but at the same time I'm warry of it due to some bad thing's I've heard about crank-walk, boost creep, transmission issues and stuff like that.

I know that there are a lot of DSM tuners that are undeniably loyal to the 4G63T and I'm sure that they are on to something, but at the same time there are thousands of Chevy and Ford guys, yet their cars are unreliable as Oprah's previous-day scale reading...

Mistu's also have a reputation of falling apart.

-MR

[jsigone]

I had 2 DSMs, one 90 gst and a 93 TSI.

If you're getting a JDM motor, it will be a 6 bolt motor, which is the strongest motor of them all. in late 92 they went to 7 bolt motors, in 95 they lightened the crank to gain more power but also induced crankwalk is some cases. Just get a 6 bolt motor, these have been dynoed at 400-450AWHP meaning bout 550hp at the motor. Not bad for a stock bottom end. Your lucky if you can get close to 350 on the stock bottom end of a 3S-GTE, the head of the SR motors, can't support the turbos that like to make power at teh upper range. Not unless you like changing rocker arms everytime u rev past 8k. The stock DSM head can rev to 8500, the tranny is a lil weak link, it can't shift beyond 9k. But under that shoudl shift w/o probs, and long as ur not powershifting. I trying not to be biased but the 4g63 simply kicks *Censored**Censored**Censored*. A local DSM put 394 AWHP on pump 91 octane with a t3/t4 50 trim, cams and stock bottom end, with other bolt ons.

My GST has over 200k miles on it and it still handles 21psi just fine. And still beating 600cc bikes from a roll. Usually it's not the motor that fails on DSMs, it's the tranny or drivetrain but every driver is different so is ever car. You can get 200whp with just a filter, MBC, and exhuast.

[DRIFTone]

pulsar GTI-R's and Evo's are not front biased btw. RNN14 pulsar has 50/50 split with front and rear VLSD and mid mission electronic ATB. Evo has the same set up afaik except its 60/40 bias to rear with later models running the YAW system electronically placing power to indiviual wheels rather than front/rear split.

i think...

Either way pulsars are fast, i crashed mine... CRX would be doughnut mobile. Personally i'd rather get a nice RPS13 for the money it would cost for all the fabrication etc... or even a mildly tuned HCR/HNR32 ?

[mranlet]

I'd be looking for the broadest power band available, so a 300hp motor that comes in stronger at 2k or 3k rpm will be better than a 500hp one that is peaky at the high end. Given that I could tune the 4G63T to be this way, the more you talk about it the better it sounds

The Honda setup I've thinking about could go a couple of ways, including sourcing and beefing-up the driveline from an AWD Civic bolted to a B16, but I'll most likely use a B18C1 with CR-V trans and AWD system. The B18 will mean more weight but I'll also get more power and the AWD is from newer parts. Regardless of what goes into the CRX, I will probably take it in steps:

1 - Swap in the B18C1 and FWD transmission, sell the 1.5L (it's a normal CRX, not the Si)
2 - Acquire the CR-V equipment nescessary
3 - Do all of the nescessary fabrication on the car including moving the fuel tank and replacing with a fuel cell, relocating the battery, V-mounting for an intercooler (if turbo system to be added later), replacing the rear spindles with half-shaft-friendly ones, expanding the transmission tunnel (if needed) and re-routing the exhaust - all the while being able to measure straight from the equipment rather than going on eye-ball and theory. I'll also shorten the CR-V drive shaft for the shorter CRX
4 - Swap in the CR-V AWD equipment (which should theoretically bolt to the B18C1) and drive around for ~ 5k miles with low boost (if turbo is in place)
5 - Lift the car and beef up any parts that need it (differential and clutch I would imagine) and sell the FWD trans from the B18
6 - Drive the hell out of it!

If I were to use the 4G63T, I would probably buy an AWD package and pick up a FWD transmission to bolt to it for steps 1 through 3 to be sold off later. I'd probably skip the last part of step 4 and step 5. I like the idea that I may be able to put the EVO's AWD system in it later on and that it comes from the factory with a healthy turbo, AND that most of the parts for it are domestically available (aren't they?).

DRIFTone - From my understanding, both the EVO and GTi-R drive only the front wheels under normal, non-slip, conditions, but are able to transfer power to the rear (50% for the Pulsar and 60% for the EVO). It would be inefficient for a transverse-mounted front engine to transmit its power to the rear wheels under non-slip conditions. The CRX still has a 90" wheelbase, which is plenty to keep it going the direction I'll want it (sideways, that is). Sure, maybe it will cost less than an S13, but I still won't have AWD, and I'm more of the All-wheel drift than the rear-wheel, although I thoroughly enjoy both!

Thanks for the help! I expected a lot of "you can't do that" and "buy something else instead", neither of which are concepts that I can grasp...

-MR

[jsigone]

if you go the honda route you won't make close to 200whp withou boosting and in order to have a nice kit, u have to fork down 3k for the kit which has hte IC and all. BUt for 1/3 that price the 4g63 is already boosted and makes 195bhp and with a few bolt one u will break 200awhp mark pretty easy. The only complication I can see in swaping the spindles over from a junked DSM to the rex. But still shoudn't cost that much. www.raxles.com can make custom axles to fit the application, I'm not sure where to get a shorter drive shaft from but this will prolly be custom as well. And the price will vary per material u want. The advantage that the 4g63 has is that is domestic so finding parts u need won't require u to ship for other parts of the world or pay some outragous price. Most DSMers I know have their garage full of spare parts, myself included in that. I have a spare block, head, tranny, few turbos laying around and other misc parts. And if I don't have it, I'm sure one of my freinds do.

As long as u have time, some cash and desire u can get this done, and can do it from the garage if u have a welder and lil machine shop too. If you have no speacil tools, the dremal tools rock. I used mine from porting manifolds, turbo, helicoiling a head, cuting rusted bolts and ect ect.

[DRIFTone]

the pulsar is permanent 50/50 split tho. AWD all the time. The evo im not sure on cus of the yaw thing, but im pretty sure thats permanent as well?

Pulsar is deffo right tho! unless i was driving mine FF and didnt know -which i doubt! lol

[jsigone]

the EVOs are full time AWD, so are the DSMs. But aren't 50/50 split.

[DRIFTone]

whats a DSM?

im on about RNN14 pulsar GTI-R with SR20DET ?

[Chas]

Originally posted by DRIFTone
whats a DSM?

Diamond star motors.

Eclipse
Talon
Laser
Stealth
3000GT
Galant
etc...

[DRIFTone]

ohhh... you mean mitsubishi yeah? lol cool

[K2e2vin]

Originally posted by jsigone
if you go the honda route you won't make close to 200whp withou boosting and in order to have a nice kit, u have to fork down 3k for the kit which has hte IC and all. BUt for 1/3 that price the 4g63 is already boosted and makes 195bhp and with a few bolt one u will break 200awhp mark pretty easy.

hondas are capable of making 200whp n/a. the b18c1/5 are rated around 170whp in fwd cofiguration. for 3k you can get a b18c past 200whp in n/a form with the cr-v's awd system.

[putaro]

jsigone

Hey sorry to get off of subject but can i contact you JSIGONE for some info on your dsm....


The 4g63 is a very rock hard engine.. Just watch out for the tranny!!!