Drifting

[Craftsman]

I was going to reply before you PG, but I hesitated because I didn't want to insult anyone...

Anyways, it's like trying to stop a train... Even if the train is derailed and turns sideways it's still going straight (relative to the initial trajectory). This is why heavy cars are easier to drift. I didn't say better...

I feel like I'm repeating myself here... I think I'll quit replying to this thread...

[_PG_]

Originally posted by SidewaysGts
First: keep in mind your less able to redirect the nose of heavy vehicle in the first place. You can turn the tires but due to a lack of enough friction to actually redirect the momentum of the vehicle, they will just face the way you pointed them, and the car will keep going in that direction, without actually changing the angle/direction of the car itself. (this is what understeer is, something heavy and nose heavy vehicles are known for)

Sorry to double post but this is rampant misinformation...

More mass (more weight. Weight is gravity acting upon a volume of mass) = more friction=MORE grip. Only sudden shift of momentum will overcome that friction with secondary sideways forces (overcoming centripital force) and make the car understeer. This rarely happens in drifting.

Dude, watch Takahashi or any of the Night Walkers guys. By you're reasoning, they would just understeer all over the place. But that doesn't happen. They win competitions and sh!t.

Go ask Mark (i frickin posted our AIM convo yesterday!!!!) The added mass of the RB in teh front of his S13 made his car MORE satble and gave his tires MORE grip while drifting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!

Stop assuming every car has the same dampers and springs, guys with JZX's for instance run 16k springs in the front! Thats like runnign solid steel rods in your AE86 because of how light it is!!

Look, a 16kg/mm spring take OH 16kg of force to compress the spring 1mm. 8kg/mm will obviously take 8kg for 1 mm compression.

So with 16kg springs, the mass of teh car can be 2x the mass compressing the 8kg spring and they will BOTH compress the same amount! So if you do more calculations, you will be able to derive a % of compression where the weight transfer would be equal in teh 2 cars. Here, lets assume that .6 mm compression with the mass of a JZX car equals the same weight shifting as 1mm compression on an S13 with mass of whatever... So that means that teh JZX car with THOSE springs, can weigh in at 1.6 times the amount of the S13.

THATS an assumption in order to show you how suspension tuning will allow the same amount of weight transfer to the front wheels, therefore, how can it cause more understeer especially with a capacity to fit wider wheels/tires!?????????????!!?1/!?!!?!/!/
`;dsjfsduhfsduidfsajioads

[SidewaysGts]

I never meant it was gravity directly, just over simplification for easier understanding to others. Cetifugal and centripetal forces can easily be understood with newtons laws of motion. these forces relate to his 3rd law, for every action theres an opposite/equal reaction. centripetal force is the action fo the vehicle itself while cornering, centrifugal force is the balancing force pushing the object outward. Now thankfully cars have tires which create friction to resist and keep a car on its path. but as the speeds icnrease so do the force at work, requiring more friction to maintain a path. if the friction needed to maintain the path to is needed the cars line is pulled outward until there is enough friction rom the tires to maintain the new line and balance itself out. This brings up newtons first law i believe, an object at motion/rest will stay at motion/rest until acted upon by another unbalanced force. in this case these forces are the friction of the tires on the ground, this amount of friction is increased/decreased with the downforce of the car casued by its own aerodynamics and gravity pulling the vehicle down. this is how i got to what i stated before; i just started at the begining for over simplification.

One other thing to thin kabout when talking about centrifugal forces; centrifugal forces are messured in g-forces, with each g equaling the same pull of of gravity downward, going outward ( i think i said that right...)

I hope this explained where i was coming from; if not then i fully apologize, and thanks for reading that i know it was a lot lol
___

I strongly agree with you about wheelbases however. to short and cars become finicky and hard to control, almost overly sensative to the input a driver puts in. longer wheelbases do the opposite creating high speed cornering stability. for best restuls its good to balanced between the 2.

We should have just left it at that really, agreeing for best resutls a car needs a good balance in weight and weight distribution, so once again i apologize for opening my mouth where it was not needed.

Added: Just read ur 2nd post lol, i never said/meant that heavy cars couldnt be tuned handle/drift well. i was simply doing a comparison of light to heavy vehicles. heavier vehicles do have their fair share of disadvantages to their advantages, just as lighter and smaller vehicles have their own fair share of disadvantages and advantages as well. The original point which was lost long ago is it comes down to driver preference and style. i hope this makes sense?

Added again: PG u got some mail