drifting is harmful to the enviroment!

[TRusst]

Yeah, hybrids are definitely not the future. Well, they may be the immeadiate future, but they aren't going to cut it for the long term.

I still say to hell with hydrogen, I am convinced that the energy companies and the governments, and auto manufacturers are all in it together so that they can once again completely control our energy, just as they have done with fossil fuels. They are going to make it hydrogen or nothing.

Also, on this welfare thing. Granted I am not too crazy about welfare, unless the people truly need it...but the people who truly need it don't have it. I know a family who lives in the cuts. Both parents work so they don't qualify for welfare...eventhough they are living at a poverty level. Which is ever increasing as rapidly as the middle class is decreasing while Bush and Kerry are laughing at us all the time. To hell with both of those guys. Anyway, this other guy doesn't work, his house is paid for and he drives around in a POS Caprice, with 24s, a step bar, and a lift kit. Because if he were to spend that money on a house he would lose his welfare.

But what pisses me off more than that. Is that the money that the government spends on social welfare doesn't even come close to what they spend on corporate welfare. Huge tax breaks for multi-billion dollar corporations, and even hand outs so that they can close their American factories and open up new ones in China and Thailand. And despite the biggest defecit ever, these companies aren't really hurting. Their profit margins are down, and trust me that is all that matters to these companies. They say they are hurting, they have to lay off so many employees, they blame it on workers unions and a bad economy. But they are still making several billion a year. They may only be making 8.4 billion when at this time last year they were making 8.7 billion, but they wanted to make 8.9 billion. Their profit margins aren't where they were projected and the stock holders aren't happy.

What else is pissing me off. Oh yeah "the war on terror". What a crock. How in the hell is attacking a sovereign Islamic nation supposed to prevent attacks by Islamic terrorists. Dean was right, and I have been saying this for a year and half. Everytime things start to stray for the Bush administration they bring up terrorsim. It is like they have us brainwashed and "terror" is like the word that signals for the conformity brain washing to take affect. The writers of the Patriot Act can kiss my *Censored**Censored**Censored* too. Here is a tip folks. If you ever want to buy a book that is conisdered as Anti American, which is almost anything, pay for it in cash or steal it. Because the government can go to a book store and ask for the records whenever they want. Same goes for libraries. What is even worse than this, is that people go along with it, because the government has them so afraid. There is no other population easier to control than one that is both ignorant and scared. We have been ignorant for decades, but we were never afraid until September 11. Which is why, I think, at the least, the very least the government knew it was going to happen, and possibly even allowed it to happen. Hell, they have been killing our own soldiers for decades, it is only a matter of time before they killed some American civilians. Don't let them scare you into taking away your rights. "Those willing to sacrifice liberty for safety will lose both and deserve neither."-Thomas Jefferson. Has anybody seen The Village? Same principle.

Also, why do the Islamic controlled countries hate us? Because we give more money to Isereal per year than any other country in the world. Isreal, gave the Palestineans the boot, we are obviously Isreals biggest supporters. It is a simple as that.

My solution. If you want to needlessly bomb the hell out of a country, make it Isreal. Just put an end to the holyland. I don't think any of the Gods would mine since nothing holy has ever resulted from the presence of that place. Well, aside from being the birthplace of the religions. But aside from that, everything else has been anti-holy.

Other people who can kiss my *Censored**Censored**Censored*:
The whole damned Republican Party
The whole damned Democratic Pary
Lindon B. Johnson
Richard Nixon
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan
George Bush
Bill Clinton
Al Gore
George W. Bush
Jeb Bush
Sonny Purdue
John Kerry
The Heinz family
The Bush family
John Ashcroft
Donald Rumsfeld
Tom Ridge
Osama Bin Laden and friends
Sadam Hussein and friends
Officer Doug Rogers
Officer Weldon
Judge Essery
Principal Jeffcoat

By the way. I am not Anti American. I love this country...I will not say it is the best country in the world, or that "we're the best" because that is a ridiculous statement. But I love my home none the less and I have a lot of pride for it. I am humble, put still proud to be an American. That is why it upsets me so much to watch the direction that it is headed in, and has been headed almost since the day it was established. I mean, how can you proclaim equality towards all men, when you had slaves and the only people allowed to vote were land owning white men? Like I said earlier...I just don't trust government. Any of them, anywhere. They all suck. I would like to see a return to the wild west. You steal my cow, I'll shoot you. If they Sheriff doesn't like it, you can shoot him and his debuty too. You kill my brother, I'll kill you. Then your brother will probably kill me...and it'll keep on until everybody on this Earth has killed everybody. And then, and only then will the other animals be able to kill each other with out fear of being killed by those damned humans.

[nissanguy_24]

Trust, i just skimmed your post, ill read it in a bit when i get this thing in general chat cleaned up, however it seemed to go off the subject, although i did wander abit too i have to admit, i suggest you take a chunk of it and form a new thread.
i proably agree with alot of what you said, but you know, we do have to try to maintain some sanity even in the off topic area.

of course i just skimmed it so im guessing here.

[TRusst]

Yeah, I'm sorry about that. I knew that it got way off topic but just decided to stick with it while everything was flowing. I gotta go, but when I get back I'll try to redo it in another post so that everybody can bash me and my ranting and raving.

[Ichi-Go]

I would like to add we are all hipocrits about this alterrnative fuel/ emission saving thing. Yes there are some of us who drive 30mpg cars daily or keep our emissions equipment. Or even keep our approved USDM engines.

BUT most of us will not buy any hybrid or slow "fuel cell" prius or anything along that lines. I get 18 mpg probably becuase of the way I drive or becuase my car is old and I havent changed my O2 sensors in forever but I take performance over eviroment. I love my gasoline burning smog producing automobile. I just wish more of my money was going to greedy US companys instead of overseas ones. Our oil companys are great about the enviroment unlike middle eastern countries or Russia.

If I could have my way I would run leaded gas. Turbo ugrades, more H,P and more fuel ='s worse emissions.

Also Methanol is very clean burning too bad is burns your eyes and makes you choke. Plus it is only $3 a gallon so anytime you want to switch you can.

My chemistry teacher is a huge enviromentalist and is always telling us of ways to save the enviroment. She went to get a hybrid but they were back ordered so instead of getting a car that has good emissions and high MPG she purhased a Mustang, the Mach 1 high horsepower one. I think it gets 13 mpg. 70mpg to 13mpg that sound like she really cares.

All I am saying is none of us have any room to talk about the government or companies researching alternative fuel sources. When there is a need the private companys will produce. Nobody will buy a 40hp electric car that has to be plugged in every night so nobody makes them.

End of point.

[TRusst]

You obviously missed the point. Methanol isn't really that great. I think you may be thinking of ethanol. I mentioned bio-ethanol in my first post. It is basically running your car on moonshine. You can make tremendous power (better than your beloved gasoline). And the only exhaust is basically steam. The only current drawback is that it burns very quickly and eats through fuel lines and stuff like that.

Also, like I said before, don't confuse emissions with fuel economy. The hybrid definitely has better fuel economy than the Mustang, but I am willing to bet that their emissions are similar.

Honestly, I'm in favor in using up all of the fossil fuels as quickly as possible. Put an end to all of this nonsense and force everybody to use new fuels and like it, or ride a damn bike.

Trust me. Your money is going to greedy US companies. All of these corporations are international, and all have ties with others, or part ownership, or have merged with other huge international corporations.

And I completely disagree. We have plenty of room to talk about these corporations and government. We have to talk about these things, whether it reflects upon them positively or negatively. You have to identify problems or potentional problems. You can't repair them if you aren't aware of them. That is how you learn, and progress. It's necesarry.

[spock]

If ethanol's so bad on fuel lines why don't the just make them out of a different material? And if it evaporates so quickly why don't they use air-tight containers? It's probably easier said than done, but if someone really cared they'd have these problems solved.

[TRusst]

That's the problem. The only people who care are basically small private companies and individuals. While all of the energy companies and auto manufacturers seem dead set on hydrogen.

There is a race team who race a prototype, and it runs on bio-ethanol. It raced for the first time at the 12 Hours of Sebring back in March. I don't think it finished. But it did finish the 24 Hours of LeMans which is really good, no matter what your car runs on. That was quite an acomplishment for such a small team.

I would like to see a racing series based on environmentally friendly fuels, so that this technology will progress more rapidly. Back in the early 80s is when Group C started. The "C" stood for conservation, as in fuel conservation. Which was the big concern back then. It actually resulted in some of the most amazing race cars ever built. I think a Group C Porsche holds the top speed record at LeMans at around 254 MPH, (before all of the chicanes) while getting about 4mpg. Which sounds horrible, but when you consider that it was probably making 650+ HP and spending most of it's time at or close to WOT then you start to realize how impressive that was.

I would like to see something similar to Group C get started. Maybe call it Group G for green.

[Ichi-Go]

yeh I knew that you said ethanol but I thought that methanol was the stuff that racecars used. I have a friend with a "alcohol" go-kart and it is badass. I will ask him what the fuel is actually called but always thought it was methanol.

While I was doing my research two secs ago I found this site. Might be interesting to read.

http://www.methanol.org/fuelcell/index.cfm

Hope you all learn something I know I did.

( Is ethanol the one from corn that is what I was talking about. Methanol might be a petrolium bi-product like propane.)

[TRusst]

Oh you're %100 correct. IRL and CART run on methanol. Your friends kart could be methanol as well. And you are also correct that methanol is petroleum based and ethanol at least bio-ethanol is corn or maybe some other veggies based. The beauty of these fuels is that we could have ultra clean emissions and possibly even more power. Everybody wins. I think this has been a great topic.

[Ichi-Go]

Ok I am glad I was right. I think Ethanol would be sweet. We could always grow more corn if we were running low on fuel.

[GRiDRaceTech]

TRusst... start a new thread so I can debate you. This will be fun.

[TRusst]

I really don't think it would be that much fun, and I don't know what you want to debate about. But if you start a new thread then I will reply with one of my looney rants and and etc.....

[GRiDRaceTech]

I'd like to debate about everything. I can't start a new thread because I'm not the ranter... I just respond.

[TRusst]

I can't think of anything. I'm typically not a ranter, just when I get wound up.