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  • #16
    I don't care if people take offense to what I post, since it is simply an opinion.

    i know the roots of canyon running very well. People have been doing it for many years in the states, and abroad. For almost a century auto makers have tested their cars in the canyons. Greddy tested many of their cars over here at G. Enzo Ferrari tested his cars in Topanga. It is not something exclusive to Japan. (it is not JDM) There is only one Keiichi Tsuchiya and there are very few people who will ever be like him. Keiichi Tsuchiya is no justification for correlating drifting with canyon driving. Anyone who believes so is living an initial d pipe dream.

    Why do you drift canyons?
    "Keichi Tsuchiya, the DORIKIN was in this OPTION VIDEO and he was DRIFTING in the canyons OMG OMG"

    You can't learn basic car control in the canyons if you dont know anything about cars to begin with. Starting out by driving canyons right off the bat, without any kind of basic driving knowledge or physics will just land someone, or someone else in a stretcher. If you dont have any understanding of basic driving skill before you start going up the canyons, all you will build upon will be bad habits.

    In the canyons you can either hone on good skills, or you can build upon bad habits which cause accidents and wastes of money. Most of the people in the canyons today are building upon bad habits. I'm guilty of it too.

    A lot of people i've met in the mountains didn't know *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* about cars or driving. They would say "heel-toe" this or "clutch kick" that but would have no idea on proper usage, or the mechanics behind it. One month of building upon bad habits in the canyons cannot compare to one day of proper instruction by someone who knows how to drive.

    canyon driving in japan evolved over time. it started as people going up for spirited drives, later they would go on to time themselves. It would then become a time attack. After that went over, people would try to do stunts like drifting in the canyons. This took many years of practice and cost many people their cars, as well as personal injury. A couple guys I met from Osaka who frequented the canyons said they had crashed many cars before becoming even remotely good. One completely totalled around 6 cars, and the other one totalled 4. Thats totalled, combined crashes that didnt total the car were innumerable.

    I highly doubt anyone here is willing to make that kind of sacrifice to "learn drifting in the canyons"

    I've had many close calls in the canyon and have totalled one car so far. The car i totalled was a beater and I already knew I would crash in it some day...but I still felt bad about it.

    You go into the canyons pushing it thinking you will learn how to drift, you will more than likely understeer into a wall.

    canyons do not teach you how to drift. If driven properly, the canyons will teach you to go at your own pace, and not to overpush yourself or your car. You'll learn how your car feels, and know where its limits are. Most people going up into the canyons thinking they will learn to drift have no concept of what 'limits' are.

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    • #17
      wows

      wow, sparked a hot one here. if u remember my comment back a bit ago where i was getting nostalgic for a second and mentioned that my dad used to take me there when i was 10 was simply a random statement. sorry you totaled you car in the mountain, that sucks. i have seen it happen 30 or more times now in the time i have been driving.

      i don't endorse mountain driving and actually stated that i prefer people to learn on the track as compared to mountains. basic car control should be learned on the track or at someones leasure in a parking lot for practicing heal to toe driving technique. i am not telling everyone to emulate keiichi or anything either. i am kinda wondering why i am posting this or defending myself here. this is kinda lame. i rarely get fired up about stuff, i just can't stand ignorance. so, to spell it out for everyone who things that canyon driving is wak. go buy a bicycle or something. learn your basic car control on the track like i originally said, and drive at your own limits and don't push em on the mountain. do what you gotta do, clean up after yourself if you crash, and have respect for others and the mountain. that is why people are eating crap at the mountain all the time. they bring their idiot friend up there to drive and they feel they have to prove something. suck up your pride and learn at your own pace. i know why the local mountain here got closed down and why there are so many problems at surrounding mountains. initial D is a cartoon, nothing more. get over it. and to all you who eat crapola on the mountain, jack up the barriers then toss your car over the side and claim insurance, you all can burn in my opinion. it gets so annoying going up to run only to have someone eat it and trash their car. ya i feel bad, but come on, its a mountain, if you can't drive safely, you don't have respect for me, my friends, the mountain, or anyone else up there. so, beat it, don't come in the first place if you are so careless as to disrespect everyone like that. and mr. sparkle ( i hope that is a simpsons quote) i worked in an E.R. for a year as a trauma and icu / er tech. i have seen people die in front of me from car wrecks, so, i say this, i know what happens when a car understeers into a cliff and someones life ends. kinda sobering when you are doing chest compressions on some 18 yr old who thought they would live forever*

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      • #18
        HEY! I don't want to hear your guy's LIFE STORY!!

        - sunatar

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        • #19
          and for the record, I am not against canyon running since I did/do it all the time. No ones going to be able to stop it...I am just against people doing it uninformed and irresponsible about it.

          I don't think you are uninformed optionboy, but I simply think a lot of people on this new website are. They're just not prepared or aware of the sacrifices that it will take to become better drivers.

          It's almost a catch-22. They dont want to go to events saying they are too expensive, so they go to the canyons...

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          • #20
            Originally posted by ratanus
            HEY! I don't want to hear your guy's LIFE STORY!!

            - sunatar
            don't they though? Everyone loves wasting time on forums! :soapbox:

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            • #21
              not to be the bad guy....

              but that really looks photoshoped. No smoke, no tire marks, and a few other strange things... Now, far be it from me to say a real drift picture is photoshopped, people used to say that about my pics all the time till i posted videos...and that just shut them right up, but seriously...

              I like when other people go out and actually do stuff rather than just talk about it. Means that people arnt all BS. So...got any other pics??
              Last edited by Matto; 06-25-2003, 03:13 AM.

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              • #22
                lol

                lol... awww, cmon ratANUS don't u wanna tell us your life story? hehehe. who invented the phrase catch 22 anyway? lol. okay, i am sleeping, night all

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                • #23
                  ratanus thinks you should go to bed.

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                  • #24
                    I'm basically a rookie here. I got turn on to actually doing canyon runs earlier this year by a freind who autocrosses and does canyon runs too. I own a FWD, so i can't drift the turns, so I got to do grip driving. I feel that every car and person has a different limit. If they don't know that limit nor respect that limit, they should not be up there in the first place. I agree with what optionboyONLINE said, makes perfect sence.

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                    • #25
                      Hey Cheif...

                      Theres nothing wrong with FF cars Grip can be very fun... since we do have a faster entry speed than FR most of the time.

                      Well I believe I ran into Mr. Sparkle once...and he is not a good touge driver. It was on the backside of GMR/ East Fork road a little over a year ago. We went for a run as well as he.

                      On the way back he decided to lead and held up pretty much the whole group.... S14, AE86, DC2, Mustang, Daewoo, AW11, 2 different SW20.... hmmm.... come to think of it... I dont think you knew what the hell you were doing.

                      Sorry its been bugging me since that guy thought he was god cuz he had an FD and all... "oh yeah im fast compared to these cars, its a RX-7 R1"

                      But then again it might not be you maybe just a big mistake but optionboy is right.... drifting was somewhat created in the canyon. and just because we touge dosent mean were living an Intial D pipe dream.... we do it (or I do it dont wanna offend) for the passion of driving and experiening the full potential of your car in a more natural setting rather than the $100/hr of track time.

                      KDM Rules... lol.... j/k

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                      • #26
                        Hey jsigone...

                        dont try and drift your FF... yeah it might be cool and all but its slow as hell for FF drivetrain. Just dont.

                        I do it on only certain corners I know of when it is actually faster to pull the E or use a tuck technique to piviot my front end to set up a faster exit for myself but that has come from about 2 years exp..... i know its not a lot and i am still learning but it does work for me.

                        learn your car on the canyon then you'll notice your speed increase once you become comfortble with yourself and your car.

                        Hey I drive a FREAKIN DAEWOO !!! but yet im faster than a lot of Subarus (Both GC and GD), R33 (yes a Skyline... got friends that were on the run with me to prove it), to many hondas.... Im not trying to disrespect or anything... just letting you know its not what kind of car you drive its how well YOU drive.

                        Have pride in your driving skill and in your car and you'll notice the difference... I did. thats what real touge is a gathering of drivers... not cars.

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                        • #27
                          no offence taken at all. It just seems that some drifters look down on the FF guys. But I havn't ran into that prob here yet.
                          I love my car, it hauls *Censored**Censored**Censored* in the straights (with enough TQ steer to scare the crap outta u) and can handle the turns better then I thought. My only down side is my breaks. I have Powerslot and Porterfield R-4S pads, they worked great with the stock turbo but it's not enough to slow my car down with some major down shifting. Not to mention the calipers are single pistons as oppose to Dual pistons that the AWD DSMs have. I do plan on up grading the brakes to the AWD pistons and they have about .5" bigger rotors. And cost about half of that of the Bear setup (1400 bucks over 660 bucks).

                          I only have a few months of this type of driving under my belt so I'm open to new ideas and techniques. Isn't that what these forums are for? Thanks for ur tips I hope to meet up with u at the next meeting if i can get my car running tonight. DAMN t-belt shredded

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                          • #28
                            touge crackdown

                            so i hear the cops have been really cracking down, what is the word on the streets...err.. mountain.

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                            • #29
                              yoooo

                              this eric? thuy? who be this posting the world away. hehee =D

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                              • #30
                                yo jsigone.... dude touge is so much fun.

                                just get some driving in... practice a line when the setting is right and just learn what your car can and cant do. you do this abd you'll be fine. anyways try and meet us this friday itll a lot of fun and some new peeps as well so youll be ok.

                                well hope to see all you guys at life this friday... peace,
                                rudy

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