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  • #31
    Originally posted by Slapshotnerd View Post
    Formula D has been very transparent about their business practices, and has gone above and beyond the call of duty to try and promote the event and the series. you don't see D1 doing ride-alongs with local news stations or demo's like Champ Car / Mexico / etc. Formula D has constantly worked to promote the sport and the drivers, where D1 (and NOPI) always seemed to only be around for the profit.

    I really hope that D1 can be resurrected and can create a successful business model in the US. I fear that they STILL want to be the only game in town, and are willing to burn bridges to get what they want (like they have in the past).
    I feel otherwise. I have experienced Formula D to be very guarded with their business practices, and have seen them make quiet moves behind closed doors - where I have felt that they should have been public decisions that the community needed to be made aware of. (Their Rulebook - for example)

    I wouldn't give Formula D the "above and beyond" credit just yet. I feel that they have done a good job in establishing a sanctioning body stateside. I feel that they got lucky, and became the sanctioning body that survived while all the others have dissolved.

    D1 did ride-alongs with local news stations. They did demo's at Irwindale during their local Winston West events. They even had a NASCAR demo thingy with NASCAR drivers. I think Snoop Dogg was there became some kind of event at Irwindale that was held in the middle of the week.

    D1 provided cars for the tv show Top Gear:

    I'll keep this response short, for now. ;-)


    • #32 far as referring drifting to racing, etc.

      There are quite a few places within the Formula D rule book that refer drifting as "racing". So maybe the term racing is just taken out of context and simply means one car vs. another on a race track, complete with flags, a starter, corner workers, etc. =)


      • #33
        Originally posted by Formula D View Post
        I was simply replying to the term "drift racing" used in an official press release that came directly from the new group. It is common knowledge that that term is not the preferred nomenclature to describe drifting. A little petty, I admit, to point it out, but D1 as the "leader" in drifting, one would think that you might want to call or describe the sport in the way that the consensus does or at least calling it what it is. If you wanna do a disservice to the growing fan base, call it drift racing, something that it is not. One of the biggest challenges drifting faces is a simplistic and quick education on what a fan is seeing. Who won and why? Racing implies if I beat you across the line, I win. Anyway...

        I am happy to respond to your "copying" allegations however......

        Wow, that's funny. Copying D1 for years? Please share an example if you will. If we were copying, what we would do is announce events and then cancel them or promise international drivers certain things only to back out at the end of the day fueling further the sometimes present attitude about the strength of this sport drifting, especially from the originator. This is well documented with them.
        I think, at the time, D1 in Japan had given the green light for the US office to plan, schedule, and announce the said events. However, in true last minute, and in very Japanese business form, the Japanese management just decided to "cancel". With that said, the US office was essentially left hanging.'s not exactly the way to conduct business, but even you would have to admit that things like that are just "Japanese".

        I can't even really say that it's a fault of sorts. It's just part of how they do business over there. Call it a "culture" if you would like. Decisions, even big ones, can be canceled just like that because someone who's higher ranked simply didn't wanna do it anymore. In Japan, there is clearly a hierarchy in place. Here in the US, even a hierarchy can be overruled by the general consensus.

        Originally posted by Formula D View Post
        Conversely, we try to do things that they do not do. D1 is the originator and for that we are all grateful, however their business interactions outside Japan is a complete guide to how not to relationship build or do business in a foreign country. The list is long of people that have been burned by a bad D1 experience in some way, shape or form. We do not copy that. I'm a bit hopeful the new group will have more control to do the right things. I know them well and they are respectable, but I honestly can't understand what they are thinking with this latest venture.
        Agreed. I agree with you here, 100%.

        Originally posted by Formula D View Post
        Similarly, to your allegation, you may have missed the press conference at SEMA 2007 (that's November 2007) when we actually announced the World Championship. I can send you the dated release or video for that matter if you like. Or better yet, you can ask any of the people who were there which would be just about every domestic team. That would mean to announce something like that and not back out we would have been planning venues and such in the Summer of 2007. That's quite a bit earlier than your record of events you use to support your "copying". You may have also missed the last 3 years of on going conversations with other international sanctioning bodies to get all groups talking about things like similar rulebook and formatting all which properly builds direction for events like a World Championship. Were you aware that more INTL bodies use our rulebook or a form of it than any other body?
        Your rulebook? ...maybe SCCA's rulebook, which then was probably modeled after FIA's rulebook...MAYBE.

        Originally posted by Formula D View Post
        As a matter of fact, I'm not sure anyone else is even doing that. This helps international bodies when they do come together, have similar rules helps establish the vehicle competition curve and minimize it. D1 does not have a history of doing this. Rather, they come to a land foreign to them to conduct business and say, this is how it will be done. UK, NZ, all prime examples of that exact thing. So your "copying" argument seems to be unable to hold much water when looking at those facts as well.

        The open line approach and attitude FD employs lent for us to be able to compile the the most diverse group of drifters in the world for the RB event. By the way, your sentence about us "taking credit" for the concept of a World Championship... Can you find me something that verifies that? You do realize the concept of a WC is not a proprietary thing to anyone group and certainly not to D1? What makes a WC depends on who defines it. The facts are that the RBDWC was by far and away the most diverse group of international champions in the history of the sport. That's just a fact. Stating facts isn't claiming, it's being involved in reality. Who was missing at that event? Ah yes, D1. Here was an opportunity to participate and bring the international community together to an event that wasn't even under our own FD brand so there could be no boasting from our end that everyone is competing at OUR World Championship. That would be so lame for us to do that anyway. D1 was the only group missing. Master Ueo was a brave soul and so was Daigo Saito but mysteriously he was pulled from the event last minute. Weird. It's been said that Saito was allowed to come but it is widely known that it was in his best interest to not participate.
        Again, it's the hierarchy and culture of Japan and how things are done over there. It's different than how things are done over here. I'm sure he was given the OK to come. Then, suddenly, someone above him just said "no", and that is that.

        Originally posted by Formula D View Post
        After the initial talks with D1 where they demanded that we alter things at the event that we were producing in a certain way and tried to dictate how the event should be run, even though amongst other things, we completely changed the judging format to favor no specific sanctioning body.
        I thought that was done to avoid further controversy from having such different scores made public by the 3 individual judges? I know for a fact, and so does everyone else here, that the judging across the 3 were inconsistent.

        Originally posted by Formula D View Post
        We designed the event to be as fair as possible. The only thing that I wish we would have done to be even more transparent is use judges from other selected countries. Ironically, most of the bodies minus D1 were fine with our existing guys, but I totally want to do an INTL drifting panel. It totally works with the new head-to-head format. In the end D1 claimed financial hardship and bailed. Totally understandable. Interesting though considering EVERY other smaller INTL team and organization had no problem getting here nor did they demand we change things for them. Moreover, the RB was a collaboration between all bodies. Ideas were welcome. We even provided a small subsidy (what we could) to the INTL teams and would have for D1 as well just to help lower the costs of travel or whatever they wanted to use it for.
        Again...agreed 100% on your efforts in bringing in International competitors.

        Originally posted by Formula D View Post
        When D1 ran their "World Series" events, did they once call us to say anything, ask our help or opinion? No, and we didn't expect them too. Did we knock down their door saying they need to do this or need to do that? Again, no. Somewhat of a double standard there I think. This mentality is what has led to so many broken relationships domestically and abroad. It's sad. It's sad because so much could be done by aligning in accordance with how things work in the area a group is trying to conduct an event.

        Some history of note... In what we felt would have been an amazing event for the scene and a true progression in drifting, in 2006ish, we made an offer to D1. We offered to co-promote an event. The event would be D1 vs FD. Their top 16 versus our top 16, straight up. We could have co-promoted it or we would have funded it or whatever. It was all open for discussion. Judges could be picked by committee or whatever way the two groups wanted. And if our guys got smoked like we keep hearing they would, hey, oh well. I think most of them would just be more motivated and again this would have elevated drifting quicker. Though I think JR has done especially well against their best. This idea, they turned it down.
        I can see them turning down that idea. I also do remember when D1 had their D1 vs USA. The USA part was essentially your top 16.

        Originally posted by Formula D View Post
        Copying a track layout? Ya, well the track for the WC was being designed in January so your timing is a bit off again. I can provide the dated layout we had to submit to the city if that is helpful for you. Besides to my knowledge Odaiba is not a triple digit entry and additionally we didn't put a poll right in the main turn. Remember this?

        That accusation is pretty laughable. You would have had more credibility on that one if you said FD Houston 2005 looked like Odaiba. At least you would have some more accuracy. I would have gone along with that.

        I'm really trying to not come off harsh, but your allegations are extremely off base though don't seem spiteful per say, but seem to lack accurate knowledge or back story. That's understandable. It is not uncommon. On my end though, everything being typed by me is backed up so there is no speculation and if there is I make note of it clearly. The problem is that when you post on a public forum things that provoke and breed an environment of negativity when it would be just as easy play a role in actively participating in the debate of what is best for drifting which I think would be amazing. On this forum, you have teams managers, drivers, etc.
        ...and FANalists. ;-)

        Originally posted by Formula D View Post
        FD has been around in the US and growing for 5 years. This would be 5 years after D1 said that they would not do anything but exhibitions in the states and sent Slipstream (at the time) packing. Fact: D1 had no intentions of doing anything but similar events to what we produced for them in 2004 from that point forward. In fact they turned down our idea to run a D1 US Series with American drivers. No risk to them. We would sell it, promote it, etc. We were told the Americans would not make exciting drifting because their level was not as good as the Japanese. Had they said yes, they would own this market right now. But it's their brand, so their choice. In the end it was a no go, and that actually gave birth to FD ironically. I can speculate that only after the initial success of FD year one in 2004 that is when it became a good idea to have more D1 events in the states. That is when the American guys got respect.... when they were seen as viable. Again, I'm speculating here, but the timing of it all is suspect. Copying is saying no to a concept, then seeing that it works, then trying to do the same thing or something similar.
        Copying is different than innovating. Copying is doing something like taking molds of Greddy's SR20 oil pan and intake manifold, and then selling them like no tomorrow on eBay for less than 1/2 of the money needed to acquire the genuine product. Innovating is like taking BMW's E39 (5-series) and then matching them and IMPROVING upon them via Lexus' GS series. Hmm...530i, really a lot like the GS300. 540i? ...much like the GS400. Kinda like that. Lexus took the BMW, and did what they felt were improvements to it.

        Formula D improved upon D1's product. That's not copying. It's innovating, and it's what builds futures. Inventing is almost over and done with. Improving upon what we have at hand has been what the world has literally been about.

        Originally posted by Formula D View Post
        So on to more "copying". The drivers I mentioned above are the same drivers of which many are now doing drifting full time or close to it. This is only possible because of the consistency of events and the return to sponsors of teams through FD events. However you view FD, the fact is that we have been doing it and doing it consistently and that consistency and growth has allowed hobby drifters to actually make a living from the sport in some way. We have been supporting the industry and contributing the best way we can. Over the past 5 years, FD has run or operated over 50 competition events, team drift, demo's and the such in the states alone. We have been on both ESPN and SPEED, the two premiere sport networks and billions of audited impressions have been calculated.
        ESPN is different than ESPN2. You guys were on ESPN2. ESPN2 is much like SPEED. They just air what you make, and stick commercials within it. Packaged stuff. When ESPN itself is in town, they bring in their own crew, along with their own announcers. I'm kinda upset that ESPN has a Bass Fishing thingy...and yet has yet to do anything involving the sport compact scene.

        Originally posted by Formula D View Post
        Google "drifting" and besides this forum see what pops up first. I say this not to boast because our vision of this sport is so much more than it is now. If we were the first to do those things, how is that "copying"?

        One of the main reasons D1 can try another comeback is because there is a market here that has been developed... from West coast to East. Why is that, you think? Don't get me wrong, FD doesn't care if they make another come back. D1 is certainly relevant. It's the manner they are saying they will do it.

        If memory serves correct, D1 has had one event outside CA in Florida and I'm not sure you can call that a pro level event. They would admit this as well. The problem is that I can't see how what they are trying to do now can do anything but divide and separate the community a la drag racing. If they can pull off what they are saying they can, more power to them, but in terms of what the market can bare and support from a fan base perspective and in terms of sponsorship, it seems irresponsible. At least at this point in the game. You will find this is the consensus amongst most of the key players in the drift game. Additionally, I think FD is in a unique position to have a credible view on this. Don't get it twisted, this is not too dissimilar to a potential Champ Car/IRL thing in terms of what could be. History has taught us a lot with situations like that, right? Champ Car gone. XFL, gone. Import drag racing destroyed. When the writing is on the wall, it's hard to pretend we (drifting community) are immune to similar situations. Minus import drag racing, the other ventures were funded by deep pockets by people who had $ to lose.

        Furthermore, the challenge I would pose to D1 is to do their events without recruiting drivers who run in FD. They can't. It is not financially feasible to bring over all the cars from Japan or build enough back-ups for storage here in the US. The model does not work; at least not at this time. So if D1 is producing an event and lets say fielding a roster of at least 16 and only 4-5 of those cars will be actual D1 cars (so we have been told by D1 directly), that means at least 50-60 percent of the cars will need to come from FD. That's with a field of 16. 32 is more likely and in that case, the percentage would swing higher. That being the case, besides the different locations and the potential production build, is this not primarily a FD dominant event with the D1 brand on it? How is this something new especially if only 4-5 D1 cars will be here? Is that not what we are seeing in our own series right now with guys like Miki, Takatori, Yoshioka and Orido from time to time. I think the difference is we are not recruiting, they are coming on their own volition and we are honored to have them visit us. Come on, bring the whole D1 driver roster and you've got me as a fan though that doesn't negate the fact that you are risking dividing the industry and it's health.

        It's interesting to note that FD does not overtly or secretly restrict drivers on what they can and can't do. If a FD driver needs to go make $ to run an event, go for it. There is a long history of this attitude with us.
        Again, the hierarchy is in place with D1 and it's stable of drivers.

        Originally posted by Formula D View Post
        However, we do feel that we have invested heavily into the promotion of the drivers and their personalities in hopes that names can be made for themselves and thus they can find streams of revenue. After all, the end game is just that for the drivers. Yes, they have passion, that is a given, but making a living through drifting is a dream. So this is where identifiable exposure comes in to play. One example of how we help with that is that we created a reality based TV program that some of you have seen called Drift Style. This is an investment we made for the specific reason of promoting the drivers lifestyles and personalities. Currently the show is one of the highest rated shows on RUSH HD. So between that and the Speed show which is distributed domestically and as well as over 300 million homes internationally, I think if we wanted to we could take a harder line when it comes to what drivers can and cannot do. We don't however. Though each driver "makes" himself and though we wont take all the credit, many drivers in the series have done very well for themselves outside the drifting arena with contracted jobs partially because they are a FD drifter. This is an amazing thing for those guys. The drivers are smart. The understand things like even though some NASCAR drivers participate in other forms of racing like Dale E in GT, they are known as NASCAR drivers. That is how they market themselves and that is the smart way to do it. That is how they build equity in their brand. The equity is built by exposure. How do they get exposure? Well for one the reach of their primary series is key, like with TV as I mentioned above. With few exceptions, TV it is generally NOT a money making venture. This is an exposure and branding play, an investment in your brand and subsequent assets (drivers). This means that the series may consciously make decisions that may have negative financial ramifications for the betterment of those that have chosen to invest in the series, i.e: drivers, sponsors, teams. We do not 1 but 2 shows. Who is doing that? Who have we copied? And with all that, do you think it is fair to ask other promoters to build their own stars in some sense?

        D1 holds the drivers tight to their chest and for good reason, it's their product. D1 drivers know they need to be in those videos and get those sponsors by being loyal to D1. Is it not hypocritical to operate in that manner but then assume that FD would be stoked that after 5 years of being the main investor in drifting in the US, that we would not want to have the same attitude they have for their drivers? I don't get it. Though we don't technically contract drivers, say, like the UFC does with fighters, our job is to do as much as we can to help drivers own skill set and personalities shine through via exposure. Drivers are certainly the stars, we act as the canvas. You wont see George St. Pierre fighting in another organization without Dana White flipping out and suing him. Though, that is not the level we are at, the example is relevant when you look at what's been invested by the series and how D1 does the same thing with their drivers.

        To continue, everyone (drivers, teams) is telling us, no expansion in 2009..... no more than the current events. Why? Look around. Things are hurting, money is tight in almost every avenue of potential funding for teams. This is a hold tight and ride this out. So why now? Why what started as a verbal 2-3 D1 events, now we are hearing 6? All attempting to be built in downtown areas, one of which we have done (Chicago) and are keenly aware of the extreme union costs, etc. A production like they are proposing is a multimillion dollar venture. How can you potentially make it viable? A build like that with grandstands and infrastructure is insane money. And from what I know, there is no TV component to help justify the sponsor fees, so how does this all work? Spend and see what happens? I can't find how it makes sense. Unless of course the market dictates their direction and it changes. Then again you go back to saying one thing and doing another and history repeats itself. And in an attempt to preempt the rebuttals, yes they are going to different markets. We see that. But again, it is so hard to see how it will work. And to reemphasize, can they do it without recruiting FD guys? And though D1 told us straight up they are NOT doing what we are doing and will NOT go after our sponsors, it was all of one week before we heard they were talking to current sponsors of our series. Look, I'm willing to accept the fact that maybe they know something that we don't in all this, and this will all be amazing, but seriously. I can't get my head around the motivation.

        And now to the elephant in the room? How does this help in anyway to grow the sport? How does this not lead us down the drag racing path? That risk is extremely possible. There is not two NBA's, MLB's or NFL's.
        No, but there is College ball, and Pro ball. There is American League and National League. There is a room for a 2nd sanctioning body. I agree with you that it would make sense for D1 to work with Formula D for the greater good. Formula D can be the Professional series, whereas D1 can be the demo series that travels the globe. Drifting, afterall, is for the entertainment value...for its ability to entertain a captive audience. It's why I've believed that D1's rules, for example, were loose...because it was just all viewed as whether or not it's "cool". Afterall, everyone just wants to go and see cool things!

        Originally posted by Formula D View Post
        Now, we are not saying FD needs to be the end all tell all for drifting in the states. As I stated above we were VERY open to working with them or anyone for that matter. As a matter of fact, we took on considerable expense at Red Bull to open the doors publicly for two days to promote Pro-Am and help strengthen the grassroots. We understand that area of drifting is sooo important and we will be attempting to incorporate Pro-Am in as many of our regular events next year.
        This should have been there from the get-go. Cultivating grassroots enthusiasts will lead to future competitors. Grassroots guys will build more fans which then, in turn, will translate to ticket sales. It's neverending when looked upon like that.

        Originally posted by Formula D View Post
        Our actions generally speak for themselves. By the way, I thought the events D1 was doing a few years back in Feb/March and at the end of the year were superb. Great way to have a different product without any harsh conflicts. Why not do that?

        I know this is a long post, but we don't often defend ourselves for things that are straight up off base or not accurate at all.

        D1 is the originator of drift. We have no issue acknowledging that and more so we are thankful that because of them we have the opportunity to have a great sport here in the states, but this latest resurgence is not an attempt to help drifting grow in my opinion and the opinion of others. This is a dangerously (not healthy, which is possible) competitive series that requires assets (FD drivers) to operate and potential additional burdens on everyone who is already cashed strapped. There are no major discernible differences that we can see. Doing something so closely competitive to what we do, is, "copying" as you say.

        If D1 wants to work with us to build consensus on what would be healthy for drifting here in the states, it's an open door over here. But in what they are currently promoting we are at odds in terms of what is healthy for proper drifting growth.
        I believe that D1 should work with Formula D. I also believe that Formula D should work with D1. I'm sure both you as well as they, have conditions in which will have to be met prior to any kind of collaboration. I'm sure it's going to be an entertaining compromise on both ends, but the root of it all is a customer base. Hopefully both you and D1 have enough business sense in place to understand how NOT to kill a market.

        This was a lot to read on a very small computer screen on my end. The joys of portability? Oh well...this is me, taking a break while I'm sitting in my tow truck. ;-)


        • #34
          Response to FD

          It looks like I got some blood boiling in the FD camp with that response. I am flattered and I will try to keep my response to their response a bit shorter, but then again I might get a little wordy. Here it goes.

          FD's initial response to D1's press release was immature & unprofessional. A professional organization such as FD should not conduct themselves that way and the fact that FD did is a telling sign. Those comments made FD come off as an organization very afraid of their new competition, very afraid of D1's plans and an organization that realizes that D1 has come up with the right formula. In fact, all of the information posted negatively about D1 by FD regarding the drivers, the Red Bull World Championships controversy surrounding D1, etc. all fall in line with that same immaturity and unprofessionalism.

          My argument to FD's initial response to the D1 press release was based on the fact that FD indicated that FD were the first to come up with the format D1 announced. All you have to do is read FD's words and then look at the banner FD posted under them. It is suggestive to say the least.

          FD's latest novel of a response in defense of the fact that I said they copied D1's Tokyo Drift format for the Red Bull event mentions that FD made the announcement regarding the Red Bull event in 2007. I am not sure of that but I will take FD's word as it does not matter anyway. The fact is that Tokyo Drift was held in June of 08' and looking at things on the net it seems the first public comments since FD's 2007 announcement regarding the Red Bull event was in late July of 08' and even then there was no track design, location or details provided. The first mention of any of the details came much later. Was it coincidence? I don't know. What I do know are the facts and the facts are stated above.

          I also now know from the FD novel that Slipstream (company that started FD) was once working for D1. The FD novel also provides information that D1 cut Slipstream loose after the 1st event D1 held in the States and after that Slipstream started FD. Did FD not copy D1? I mean FD's knowledge for drifting must have come from somewhere right? Anyway, this is neither here nor there as this happens when something becomes successful, but I will speculate that most of the negativity surrounding FD's perception of D1 or at least their public bashing of D1 surrounds that very moment when D1 told them to take a hike, not to mention the fact that FD is trying to protect FD's financial interests and the best way to do that is to discredit D1.

          Further in the Fd novel FD's comments about how D1 will have to use FD "assets" when referring to drivers. This is an unbelievable comment considering in FD's own words, they do not own the drivers. More unbelievable are the comments that FD could place restrictions on the drivers if they wanted to. Very unlikely as drivers want to keep their options open.

          Let's play this one out though because there is talk of splintering the drifting community in the FD novel. If it is true that D1 is bringing over 6 to 8 or even 10 drivers and those drivers only race D1 and they are the top 10 drivers in the D1 series and if the top 6 to 8 or even 10 drivers from last seasons FD events choose to stay with FD, then is that kind of a draw? I don't think so and here is why.

          D1 offers something new, fresh in terms of concept, locations, entertainment value and the D1 drivers (arguably much better) everyone wants to see, but most have not other than in videos or on youtube. Combine all of these things together and you are looking a huge events.

          I also believe that D1 has the advantage with their locations because they will see new up and coming drivers nobody has ever seen before developing the stars of tomorrow, but I also believe that the number of events they are doing will pull in the remaining American pro drivers. D1 is only doing 4 events across the country (according to their announcement and website). FD is doing almost double (mainly west coast) plus Red Bull and others. FD said it in their novel, these are hard times where sponsors are cutting back and because of this, the drivers must be holding on too or getting less dollars. For the drivers who do not have the budget to compete in the FD series & for the sponsors who are cutting back, D1 seems to be the low cost alternative simply because they are less with more to offer and in these times that matters. I guess we will have to wait and see what D1's fee's will be before truly calling them the low cost alternative, but if those fee's are less than FD's, then FD has a major problem on their hands. All the way around, advantage D1.

          I said I wasn't going to make this a novel, but I warned it would get wordy. I will keep it short from here addressing my remaining 3 issues. First I will talk about the Red Bull event. I love the direction. I understand where this is going. It is great for drifting. I want to see this develop, but here is my problem with what you are saying and I am again going to defend D1, use your own comments and use the knowledge I have about the event having been to it. BTW, ticket prices guys?

          If I were D1 and I saw that no details about this event were made until the end of July for an event in mid November, I could be pretty angry that this event was planned one week prior to the D1 event held yearly in Irwindale. To me it would seem inconsiderate and shady possibly done on purpose. I have heard all the stories that D1 cancelled their 2008 schedule, but they did also announce they would do that one event and it was an event I and many people were looking forward to. The event was on the Irwindale Speedway website until the beginning of November and made known throughout the community.

          If FD's excuse is that they didn't know or it wasn't announced on the D1 site or D1 has a history of anouncing and cancelling as so stated in the FD novel, I call bull$#!%. Are you going to tell me that a competitive event such as the D1 Grand Prix's annual event in Irwindale was not on FD's radar? Are you going to tell me that FD could not pick up the phone and call their boys at Irwindale to find out if the event was scheduled or not or to call D1 themselves? C'mom FD knew.

          As far as the Red Bull event, FD fields 16 of the drivers that competed in their own series in a field of 32 and as FD mentioned, they used all FD's judges. On different websites I have seen that FD only invited 4 D1 drivers to participate in the event. Now I am not a rocket scientist, but I can conclude that this was not even close to being fair and definately not what you could consider an unbiased World Championship.

          I hear the argument made by FD that drivers from further away made it on the small money that was provided and how D1 who are so close could not. I am guessing that D1 may have took a look at the judging, the fact that FD was fielding 16 of their top drivers in a field of 32, saw that Red Bull sponsorship of Rhys Millen and said, what's the point? I mean this was a coup d' etat with Rhys Millen waiting in the wings. I am also guessing they harbored some ill feelings about the scheduling. I am amazed that that D1 even came to the table after FD pulled all of these moves on them. I would not have. Maybe this is the reason for their graceful decision to back out of the event telling FD it was for financial reasons?

          So here comes the argument again documented in the novel by FD. FD says they participated in the D1 event and FD had no say, didn't expect to have a say, etc. Well, of course the American drivers participated and FD kept their mouth shut. The American drivers participated in D1's event. FD had nothing to do with anything.

          The difference is that FD positioned the Red Bull event as a World Championship to crown a World Champion and on the mass media stage that Red Bull provided. In that case there better be a fair judging system representative of input from all the organizations, an equal representation of drivers and every aspect of that event agreed to by all the organizations all the way down the line and you better have the best in the world there and that means D1 rather to have 16 FD drivers crush drivers from other parts of the world that were clearly not in their league.

          Id did hear FD say that they wanted to organize an event to go head to head with D1 drivers and that FD would fund or co-fund with D1. Am I hearing a challenge? I personally would love to see that happen. BTW, I am going to start taking bets guys and I got D1 on this one.

          I honestly do like FD and have been to a lot of their events. I also love D1 and I am dying to see these guys here in the U.S. I understand that this is competitive, but having more drifting events spread around the country makes drifting bigger and better and that benefits FD and D1 not to mention the industry, an industry I work in and have seen hurting. I hate hearing the trash talk and seeing the posts and so I am calling it like I see it. I am sorry if I offended. In the FD novel FD said that they knew the new promoters of D1 very well and that they are respectable, so maybe FD & D1 can put the bad blood in the past and work together. Maybe together they can co-promote the D1 vs FD event, form one bigger event series or create a bigger Red Bull event or just to help bring drifting to more places around the country where there are no drifting events.


          • #35
            As much as I don't like Rhys Millen, he did a god damn great job. He almost always does. He bitches about almost everything it seems, but at the end of the day, he drives like a machine.
            I hate when people say he won simply because it was a Red Bull event.

            Did Mad Mike come in 2nd? 3rd? nope.

            The rest of the stuff, screw it.

            Drifting is sliding a car around.

            You bring money hungry people into it and this is what happens.

            ALL STAR BASH OR BUST.


            • #36
              Originally posted by Brian View Post
              Did Mad Mike come in 2nd? 3rd? nope.
              And think about the lack of TV coverage he got. Should have gotten more, especially for how wild that 4-rotor sounds.


              • #37
                I think people need to understand that America and Japan are totally different in the fundamental way of thinking.

                individualistic vs. collective.

                That explains most everything about this whole *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*ing industry if you think about it.

                ZIPTIED ALL STAR BASH
                July 25/26


                • #38


                  • #39
                    I'd say comparing FD to D1 shouldn't even be mentioned. They are two separate organizations, which in my opinion FD has clearly done better by miles.

                    I hear all sorts of accusations about D1 with it being "staged" and after seeing certain calls, I'd say some of them are fairly apparent.

                    Is anyone forgetting the buzz about when JR won the first D1 Allstars event? All I heard from everyone was the threats from D1 to their drivers about loosing to an American driver. Whether or not this is true, I can't really say. But have we heard any sort of rumors with FD on this sort of an issue?

                    Absolutely not.

                    Bottom line is, FD is great at what they do. They've been holding consistent events in the US for the past 5 years and have even branched off into other countries for exhibition events. To flat out say they have been copying D1 is obviously a poor attempt to shed negativity over them.

                    And it obviously means something when international drivers are showing a huge interest in driving in FD. How many of these drivers do you see showing interest towards D1?

                    not that many.


                    • #40
                      This is getting to much like EGO's taking and no facts.
                      I love D1 and hope they to well, but there track record here is bad and left many teams high and dry in 07 and 08 when schedules were cx at last minute after sponsors we told teams were making events that did not happen. D1 was the goal that all driver strived for, but there trouble in Europe and USA has dimed the star. FD has shown their ability to schedule and keep events going year after year. Let's stop acting like kids in the sand box and prove what we can do, if you do that, then all this really doesn't matter...P.S. WORLD DRIFT held the first indoor event with a custom made track several years ago
                      Last edited by olddrifter; 12-24-2008, 08:50 PM.


                      • #41
                        I seriously doubt you will see many of the current crop of FD drivers doing D1 events over FD's especially not the guys running in the top 10 in points soo whats gonna happen is D1 is gonna bring their top 8 or so and the American drivers that will show up are probably gonna be prior nopi drivers who no longer have a series to run in and the D1 drivers will mop the floor with them. Soo it will continue to perpetuate the japanese superiority complex over this.

                        Now the other way around there are several D1 drivers who crossed over and were running in FD, and yet even more that would like to.

                        Overall I don't think D1 really understands how to conduct buisness over on this side of the pond and is going to have a rough time pulling off what they have planned. That's not gonna stop me from going to one of their events but lets just say I wont be surprised when I find out that they have been canceled. FD's record in that regard has been spotless


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Smokeemup View Post
                          Id did hear FD say that they wanted to organize an event to go head to head with D1 drivers and that FD would fund or co-fund with D1. Am I hearing a challenge? I personally would love to see that happen. BTW, I am going to start taking bets guys and I got D1 on this one.

                          I'd take that bet. FD drivers have more than proven that they can hand with D1 drivers. Personally, (hold on, let me put on my flame suit) for the most part, i don't see a seperation any more.


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Brian View Post
                            As much as I don't like Rhys Millen, he did a god damn great job. He almost always does. He bitches about almost everything it seems, but at the end of the day, he drives like a machine.
                            I hate when people say he won simply because it was a Red Bull event.
                            Millen runs a professional camp, and I like that. His rig is always clean and presentable, and he does a good job in making sure he puts his sponsors in front of public view every chance he gets.

                            As far as the competition I guess it must have been some other car practicing at the course earlier that week before anyone else got a chance to. ;-) Additional practice time over other competitors may or may not be viewed to be very fair.

                            Originally posted by Brian View Post
                            Did Mad Mike come in 2nd? 3rd? nope.
                            Nah, that would have been too OBVIOUS! ;-)

                            Originally posted by Brian View Post
                            The rest of the stuff, screw it.

                            Drifting is sliding a car around.

                            You bring money hungry people into it and this is what happens.

                            ALL STAR BASH OR BUST.
                            ASB said they didn't need a Hooker. =( I was saddened. Merry Christmas though!


                            • #44
                              Just keep working with MSC. Orido, Taniguchi, Kazama, + now Miki are the cool guys anyway. I love D1 but seriously, too much drama between you guys. It seems a true D1 vs FD is only a dream that drift fans wont ever be able to see.

                              I really enjoy FD, however, I still think D1 > FD.
                              To me D1 just more fun, cars are cooler, judging is not ridiculously wrong, fan service will always beat FD, and entertainment/organization was always great. FD's always so focused on competition and the ugly *Censored**Censored**Censored* cars just get boring after a while.

                              FD is doing great tho. I always applaud them for working hard to keep promoting the drifting scene in the states.
                              Last edited by Lord_EJR; 12-24-2008, 11:19 PM.


                              • #45
                                Holy crap you guys type a lot. Summarize people, please.

                                And for all of the people that only care about who 'wins' and how people are going to be judged, you don't understand drifting. Drifting is fun, drifting is an exhibition. Drifting is not about winning so if that's all you care about, watch F1, not D1.