(2009 SCHEDULE) D1GP USA Events

[OldSkool510]

The FD vs D1 saga continues and it will never end. I agree that D1 drivers as a whole are more skilled than the FD drivers. Only FD's top 5-8 drivers could actually compete with the D1 guys. There is just too huge of a skills/driving gap between FD's top 8 and the rest of their drivers.

As I stated in a previous post somewhere, D1 drivers are always balls out on every run in order to put on a great driving exhibition for the fans, while the FD guys are constantly scoreboard watching. FD seems to only really push their skills to the limit according their competition.

As for entertainment and bang for buck value, FD wins hands down. I'm not a drifter, but I am a major car enthusiast as well as a big drifting fan. I've been attending all drifting events in the SoCal for several years now. FD has always held a better event with regards to entertainment, vendors, etc..

In my opinion as a devoted drifting fan, D1 should just try and co-exist with FD instead of trying to constantly out-do them. There's room in the drifting world for both entities to succeed. Unite the fans of drifting, rather than making them choose between FD or D1.

[Formula D]

It looks like I got some blood boiling in the FD camp with that response. I am flattered and I will try to keep my response to their response a bit shorter, but then again I might get a little wordy. Here it goes.

No blood boiling here, just some funny things coming from your very first post. Clearly you are a bit out of touch and a bit late to the table. First, we should introduce our guest, who with his first official post stirred up all this fun chatter. Guys, this is D1, or rather whoever is representing them. I’m surprised nobody else called this out. Either way, welcome aboard. Your disguise was good, but with only one post, it is quite obvious.

FD's initial response to D1's press release was immature & unprofessional. A professional organization such as FD should not conduct themselves that way and the fact that FD did is a telling sign. Those comments made FD come off as an organization very afraid of their new competition, very afraid of D1's plans and an organization that realizes that D1 has come up with the right formula. In fact, all of the information posted negatively about D1 by FD regarding the drivers, the Red Bull World Championships controversy surrounding D1, etc. all fall in line with that same immaturity and unprofessionalism.

As I said, yes, a bit petty. However, as the "leaders in drift" (that means you) and because others commented as well, should not the leader use the appropriate verbiage to describe the sport they birthed? Or is this the next group putting their best attempt at a press release to announce yet another comeback? If the later is true, it’s fine. Everyone has butchered a release or two in their life. Let’s just be real here. We are not afraid of the competition. We have endured more people trying to "better the sport" than you can imagine. What concerns me is wreckless decisions based on selfish intentions that dont help, but hurt.

My argument to FD's initial response to the D1 press release was based on the fact that FD indicated that FD were the first to come up with the format D1 announced. All you have to do is read FD's words and then look at the banner FD posted under them. It is suggestive to say the least.

Huh, what? Can anyone understand this?

FD's latest novel of a response in defense of the fact that I said they copied D1's Tokyo Drift format for the Red Bull event mentions that FD made the announcement regarding the Red Bull event in 2007. I am not sure of that but I will take FD's word as it does not matter anyway. The fact is that Tokyo Drift was held in June of 08' and looking at things on the net it seems the first public comments since FD's 2007 announcement regarding the Red Bull event was in late July of 08' and even then there was no track design, location or details provided. The first mention of any of the details came much later. Was it coincidence? I don't know. What I do know are the facts and the facts are stated above.

What facts? Did you need that SEMA announcement or? Yes, you caught us, we watched the Tokyo Drift format or whatever and consciously said, “Hey lets copy that. Hey Red Bull, you are known for being innovative, but here is a course layout that we can copy since we don’t have enough skill to do it on our own.” Funny.. don't you see how ridiculous that sounds?

I also now know from the FD novel that Slipstream (company that started FD) was once working for D1. The FD novel also provides information that D1 cut Slipstream loose after the 1st event D1 held in the States and after that Slipstream started FD. Did FD not copy D1? I mean FD's knowledge for drifting must have come from somewhere right? Anyway, this is neither here nor there as this happens when something becomes successful, but I will speculate that most of the negativity surrounding FD's perception of D1 or at least their public bashing of D1 surrounds that very moment when D1 told them to take a hike, not to mention the fact that FD is trying to protect FD's financial interests and the best way to do that is to discredit D1.

Yes, thank you for making my own point. FD was born because D1 did NOT want to build US drivers with a US based series. So what are we copying? The format? Oh, so then I guess D1 copied NCAA, NHRA or any other bracketed system. I guess we copied D1 with Team Drift too. Hilarious man. More over, if we are on copying… So did HIN not copy Showoff? You yourself have used the exact same argument we are using now. It’s a weak argument. We were there, we grabbed the opportunity D1 did not see and we moved forward. The fact that D1 can only now pitch this massive idea is only because the foundation has been laid over 5 years of consistent drifting content stateside. We are thankful D1 told us to take a hike. People say perception is reality. In this case, reality is reality unless you forgot the 3 other groups D1 dropped in subsequent years.

Further in the Fd novel FD's comments about how D1 will have to use FD "assets" when referring to drivers. This is an unbelievable comment considering in FD's own words, they do not own the drivers. More unbelievable are the comments that FD could place restrictions on the drivers if they wanted to. Very unlikely as drivers want to keep their options open.

What options? An unproven series/idea with less events and no TV? It's funny how D1 is so protective of their drivers but even at the mention of it from us, it is a surprise. So much hypocrisy. The funny thing is the right answer right in front of you. Bring all the D1 drivers here, 2X per year and do a reasonable promotion and production that the size of the marketplace can endure. Open and close the year with a D1 event. Why is that not enough? Care to elaborate? Why do something now that to most people is counter-productive to growth in the US drifting community? Why do something that is clearly in conflict with our series? Can you tell me whom this benefits? You have the easy answer to do something beneficial and workable yet D1 defies logic only to do something so potentially damaging to the industry.

Let's play this one out though because there is talk of splintering the drifting community in the FD novel. If it is true that D1 is bringing over 6 to 8 or even 10 drivers and those drivers only race D1 and they are the top 10 drivers in the D1 series and if the top 6 to 8 or even 10 drivers from last seasons FD events choose to stay with FD, then is that kind of a draw? I don't think so and here is why.

Again, huh? I’d love to debate this, but it’s hard to understand what your argument is.

D1 offers something new, fresh in terms of concept, locations, entertainment value and the D1 drivers (arguably much better) everyone wants to see, but most have not other than in videos or on youtube. Combine all of these things together and you are looking a huge events.

Who is everyone? What information do you have that lets you know what areas are asking for this type of event? Yes, there are drifting fans in all 51 states. I know this from our own data. So what gives you better info than the group that has been ground level for the past 5 years? Chicago, we already know what that market can bare. So what intelligence or insight tells you that you can do it better then the years we gave this area? Granted, there is a market there, but not in the parking lot/build a venue setting? Is the assumption that we are sub par and you can do it better?

I also believe that D1 has the advantage with their locations because they will see new up and coming drivers nobody has ever seen before developing the stars of tomorrow, but I also believe that the number of events they are doing will pull in the remaining American pro drivers. D1 is only doing 4 events across the country (according to their announcement and website). FD is doing almost double (mainly west coast) plus Red Bull and others. FD said it in their novel, these are hard times where sponsors are cutting back and because of this, the drivers must be holding on too or getting less dollars. For the drivers who do not have the budget to compete in the FD series & for the sponsors who are cutting back, D1 seems to be the low cost alternative simply because they are less with more to offer and in these times that matters. I guess we will have to wait and see what D1's fee's will be before truly calling them the low cost alternative, but if those fee's are less than FD's, then FD has a major problem on their hands. All the way around, advantage D1.

And you would know this because…….? (Reference above) Also, please tell me how you propose building a site such as the one on the D1 website with lower fees than us? Makes zero sense.

I said I wasn't going to make this a novel, but I warned it would get wordy. I will keep it short from here addressing my remaining 3 issues. First I will talk about the Red Bull event. I love the direction. I understand where this is going. It is great for drifting. I want to see this develop, but here is my problem with what you are saying and I am again going to defend D1, use your own comments and use the knowledge I have about the event having been to it. BTW, ticket prices guys?

Ya, what about them? These were on par, and actually cheaper than most 2 day D1 events. $35 for a two day reserved ticket and no processing fees. Oh, and plenty of $5 off codes meaning that many patrons got two day reserved for $30. Custom venue with grandstands and buses. A bit different and more costly than a fixed built facility. Again, a fact that you have not researched or are unaware of.

If I were D1 and I saw that no details about this event were made until the end of July for an event in mid November, I could be pretty angry that this event was planned one week prior to the D1 event held yearly in Irwindale. To me it would seem inconsiderate and shady possibly done on purpose. I have heard all the stories that D1 cancelled their 2008 schedule, but they did also announce they would do that one event and it was an event I and many people were looking forward to. The event was on the Irwindale Speedway website until the beginning of November and made known throughout the community.

If FD's excuse is that they didn't know or it wasn't announced on the D1 site or D1 has a history of anouncing and cancelling as so stated in the FD novel, I call bull$#!%. Are you going to tell me that a competitive event such as the D1 Grand Prix's annual event in Irwindale was not on FD's radar? Are you going to tell me that FD could not pick up the phone and call their boys at Irwindale to find out if the event was scheduled or not or to call D1 themselves? C'mom FD knew.

Ya, I love this one. Especially since it was Irwindale telling us that the event was cancelled. Oh and if it was on, why wasn’t D1 contacting any drivers here? This argument is one of those ones where because you are coming to the game late you do more damage than good to your cause because everyone knows this is crap. D1 wasn’t contacting drivers, sponsors or even the venue they supposedly had an event at. Again, you are late to the table, have zero understnading of back story and are relying on 3rd, 4th or maybe 5th part biased information at best Ya…. ok

As far as the Red Bull event, FD fields 16 of the drivers that competed in their own series in a field of 32 and as FD mentioned, they used all FD's judges. On different websites I have seen that FD only invited 4 D1 drivers to participate in the event. Now I am not a rocket scientist, but I can conclude that this was not even close to being fair and definately not what you could consider an unbiased World Championship.

So D1’s was unbiased when they did their ”WC”? Why are you using an argument that clowns D1’s own attempt at a WC? The host country always has more athletes. Have you bothered to look at how something like the Olympics works? Please look at the 2008 Beijing roster and then make that argument. Consequently, there was the champion and runner up or past champion from every single recognizable or remotely respectable series internationally at this event. What more do you need? What other better drivers were not there? Here, let me help you try and make your point…. What way would have made it fair? 6 D1 drivers? Ya, that was there for you bud. If you'd like I can give you the document that D1 created for us showing the 6 drivers they wanted to bring and that we agreed to. Would this be helpful for you? Actually, you already have it because you were there. Unreal.

Oh, but the judging? Ah yes, the biggest event to hit drifting internationally, every champion here but D1 wont play because of judging and because of the date D1 said they planned at Irwindale? Weak argument man. Why with everyone telling D1 to be there would they bow out? Why not come and destroy the competition field. Because FD woudl conspire and make Rhys Millen win? That's so funny man. This is not the WWE. Consequently more people have said that about D1 than FD. Judging for the WC was as transparent as you can get. If you don't agree speak to any of the drivers who were there.

I hear the argument made by FD that drivers from further away made it on the small money that was provided and how D1 who are so close could not. I am guessing that D1 may have took a look at the judging, the fact that FD was fielding 16 of their top drivers in a field of 32, saw that Red Bull sponsorship of Rhys Millen and said, what's the point? I mean this was a coup d' etat with Rhys Millen waiting in the wings. I am also guessing they harbored some ill feelings about the scheduling. I am amazed that that D1 even came to the table after FD pulled all of these moves on them. I would not have. Maybe this is the reason for their graceful decision to back out of the event telling FD it was for financial reasons?

(See above response) And so they lied? You are admitting to that and the fact that you were stringing us along the entire time? Wow!

So here comes the argument again documented in the novel by FD. FD says they participated in the D1 event and FD had no say, didn't expect to have a say, etc. Well, of course the American drivers participated and FD kept their mouth shut. The American drivers participated in D1's event. FD had nothing to do with anything.

Dang man, you keep making my own points for me. Funny how when the tables are turned, the expectations change. Hard to see how you don’t see the hypocrisy.

The difference is that FD positioned the Red Bull event as a World Championship to crown a World Champion and on the mass media stage that Red Bull provided. In that case there better be a fair judging system representative of input from all the organizations, an equal representation of drivers and every aspect of that event agreed to by all the organizations all the way down the line and you better have the best in the world there and that means D1 rather to have 16 FD drivers crush drivers from other parts of the world that were clearly not in their league.

Ya, that’s what the international consensus agreed to. See, we actually talk to our partners and find consensus and compromise. Find me an argument otherwise even after the event when everyone should be complaining about judging. There were very few complaints. Again, D1 being the lone cry in all this. And again, D1 had an over abundance of D1 drivers at their own WC. This is not a good debate for you.

Id did hear FD say that they wanted to organize an event to go head to head with D1 drivers and that FD would fund or co-fund with D1. Am I hearing a challenge? I personally would love to see that happen. BTW, I am going to start taking bets guys and I got D1 on this one.

Ya that’s fine man. Again, we don’t care who wins. Our idea is to grow drifting with good ideas, not destroy it with selfish intentions of a few. It's not about who is better or who has "cooler" cars.

I honestly do like FD and have been to a lot of their events. I also love D1 and I am dying to see these guys here in the U.S. I understand that this is competitive, but having more drifting events spread around the country makes drifting bigger and better and that benefits FD and D1 not to mention the industry, an industry I work in and have seen hurting. I hate hearing the trash talk and seeing the posts and so I am calling it like I see it. I am sorry if I offended. In the FD novel FD said that they knew the new promoters of D1 very well and that they are respectable, so maybe FD & D1 can put the bad blood in the past and work together. Maybe together they can co-promote the D1 vs FD event, form one bigger event series or create a bigger Red Bull event or just to help bring drifting to more places around the country where there are no drifting events.

To even begin to go down that road, we need to see eye to eye on what drifting is in the states. We are clearly in conflict with that. I am not sure you are in a position to say what is beneficial to an industry in terms of events and how many events. More events spread around the country is not beneficial to FD or the industry as you say. Having confusion and spreading drivers and dollars thinner does nothing good. Hello, drag racing. By the way, nice job on scheduling you first event one week before our ATL event. Right off the bat, it's starting off on the wrong foot. No pro team is going to risk wrecking their car when they need to leave Monday to make it to ATL.

We know and admit that our own series can do more and be better and it is very easy for people to be critical. Some people may not like certain cars or driving techniques or whatever. That's ok. The reality is that FD has made many good choices in terms of the direction of the sport and to grow the sport. FD has done many more "first's" for the sport of drifting than any other promotional group, including D1.... whether it be TV, event programming, judging transparency, sponsorship returns, a true World Championship, creative partnerships and many other things seen and not seen. Agree with them or not they are reality and they have led for many positive things for many individuals and companies involved with the brand. And this is why we have been supported. This mindset has been directionally different than everyone else. When FD could have been selfish, we have not. We have reinvested in the series every single year because we want this to be around for the long term. When most people saw a quick buck we did not. So to even think collaboration we would have to have some of the same intentions and we are simply not on the same page in that regards.

[Chaotic_Warlord]

Ok I joined just to because of this thread, i've been reading through the board for a couple years and have several items from the store and never registered because nothing has struck me as much as this thread has.

To Formula D and J-Rod would you like to explain to us hard working fans who shell out our hard earned money why you've changed the format so drastically over the past 2 years...? Allow me to explain, I have been going to the FD events in NJ since you guys started having them in Wall NJ, in the beginning it was good, hell it was awesome, the practice sessions were kick *Censored**Censored**Censored*, the event itself was even better, it was the proper mix of Pro vs. local Amateurs. The sponsors were there but not overly so. the 06 season was the same but not as many Amateurs and more sponsors.

the 07 season was worse more commercialized, longer breaks, less interaction with the teams and WAAAAY more Falken Tire than anyone else, which mind you is fine since they are a mega team and they have a solid stable of drivers. But the number of domestic muscle was seriously outnumbering the Japanese sport compact that started the whole thing.

Then came the 08 season, I can honestly say I had more enjoyment watching the drag races than the FD event. There was an overkill on the commercialization (Seriously you guys had a car sponsored by Home Depot, what the F is this NASCRAP). The practice was a joke, the parking was beyond FUBAR, you had less sponsors and less teams, which led to less team interaction, you have no locals or amatuers bothering to come anymore for no other reason than you telling them pretty much to go home or sit in the stands.... Speaking of which, we could see *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* from where we were sitting, the track is nothing more than one giant circle, what's the fun in that. Oh and the cars you guys have anymore suck, I go to these events to see S13's, S14's, Rx 7's, Ae86's the occassional Skyline, Sorer, S15, or Altezza, not GXP after GXP, after GXP after Solstice or mustangs, or corvettes or you get my point. Gush's Mustang was the bomb, Sams Viper was awesome, hell the charger kicks *Censored**Censored**Censored*, so did Rhys' GTO but they were 3 american muscle in a field of 20-30 japanese iron. now it's the other way around.

You are turning into NASCRAP, and you are losing your die hard fans for those brainless monkeys and ricers that tune into NASCAR and go to HIN. D1 had the right idea at the start, but after seeing how you trounced on there parade and turned the sport of drifting into yet another bastardized commercialized version with more NASCAR than Grassroots they gave up the ghost and left and now this new iteration of D1 seems to have followed your footsteps and turned it into a tiny bit of drifting with a whole bunch of fanfare and car show.

So you guys explain to us hardcore, die hard fans who have been with you from day 1 why we should bother spending(coughwastingcough) our hard earned money to support you and come to your events anymore, because unless it's in Irwindale you don't seem to give 2 shits about the rest of us.

I should add that me and the gf left the event severely pissed off and disappointed before the top 8 was even half way done, and we were in a long line of cars that were leaving that gate when we left.

I know you're going to say that E-town was a new venue and you have things to iron out about it blah blah blah, that's BS. Fix the parking, get rid of the long *Censored**Censored**Censored* 3 hour break, fix the eating, pick a different more technical section of the track or better yet go to Thunderbolt Raceway and use thier track, get rid of the commercialization, I know I'd gladly pay a few bucks more for a better event that was more like the 05 season and less like Nascar. Get the GM and Ford and DC out of the sponsor pool, bring back the grass roots aspects and for the love of god get the Sylvia's, Hatchis, RX's and there kin back in the stable and remove all the goddamn GXP's and american car out of there. Your fans will thank you and you might actually see an increase in profits.

/Rant

If anyone else on this board agrees with what I've said please get it out there. Oh and I'd love to see the NOPI Drift guys be allowed to drive in FD now that NOPI Drift is no more. That's where the guys who started FD went to after the 06 season because they couldn't compete with sponsors like SEARS, Home Depot, GM, and Dodge.

[Cavi Mike]

I agree whole-heartedly and it's very ironic you bring up FD at Wall, NJ. Sept 2007 was the first (and last) FD event I attended and I was totally appalled by what I experienced. It's no longer an exhibition to entertain a crowd, it's just another competition for people looking to be #1. I was really taken aback by what I witnessed and if anyone wants to know my exact thoughts you can read them here.

Professional drifting is an exhibition. You are there to show off your skills to entertain a crowd. The only person you are competing against is yourself. If you only strive to be better than the person ahead of you, you already lost.

[Formula D]

Chaotic Warlord, let me know if this helps you understand any better...

To Formula D and J-Rod would you like to explain to us hard working fans who shell out our hard earned money why you've changed the format so drastically over the past 2 years...? Allow me to explain, I have been going to the FD events in NJ since you guys started having them in Wall NJ, in the beginning it was good, hell it was awesome, the practice sessions were kick *Censored**Censored**Censored*, the event itself was even better, it was the proper mix of Pro vs. local Amateurs. The sponsors were there but not overly so. the 06 season was the same but not as many Amateurs and more sponsors.

- First J-Rod does not have anything to do with the format. J-Rod serves as our official announcer and does a fine job IMO
- I think it helps if we both understand the definition of the term "format" equally or the same. The general term we use for this purpose is essentially how the event runs from the time we open the doors until we close. Items like how many drivers can we field at this particular venue? How long is each session of practice? How many drivers are seeded? How long are the breaks for people to walk around, sponsors to activate? How is the judging format broken down, etc. These are a few of the items that might fall under the term "format". That being the case, our format has NOT changed much at all......
- The hours are still the same. We can still field about a maximum of 45 drivers for the given time frame allotted. We still seed 16 drivers. We also allow anyone that is licensed to sign up for competition. If you are not familiar with how to get a license you can find that in the rule book, but the basics of it are that you must have scored at least 1 point from the prior season or you are allowed to petition. In short, if you are a relatively skilled driver, you can come out and compete. Most people with the drive and desire wont find it too difficult to find a way into the competition. If you read some of the previous posts most people want to see the competition as close as possible, not too far of a gap in skill. That is why we have a threshold the drivers must be able to pass to compete. But again, even a local amateur can come compete.
- Sponsors are a necessary part of the game. They support the series and drivers. However to you point of "more"... We have different levels of sponsorship and each level has a cap on the number that we will fulfill at that level. This helps create value for those sponsors so it doesn't get watered down. So, there are only so many that we can have or fulfill. We do not take an endless supply of sponsors like you might think.

the 07 season was worse more commercialized, longer breaks, less interaction with the teams and WAAAAY more Falken Tire than anyone else, which mind you is fine since they are a mega team and they have a solid stable of drivers. But the number of domestic muscle was seriously outnumbering the Japanese sport compact that started the whole thing.

- Again the format has not changed much at all even or the past 5 year let alone from the 07 season. Same schedule, format of non-seeded qualifying to top 32, from there to top 16 and head to head formats. From top 16, its a straight shot until the end, less any accidents, spills, breakage, etc.
- We do not control how many teams are sponsored by certain sponsors. Who Falken sponsors and how many drivers the have on their team is not up to us. That is their decisions. We do not mettle in that area.
- A factual number that may be of interest to you is that we have about 100+ individual licensed drivers. From that number there are 7 domestic cars total. The rest are Japanese/import. So there are not more domestics as you say outnumbering the cars you like.
- Also, there is as much interaction with the teams as you like. These are one of the main things the breaks you complained about is for. We also have open pits so you can interact directly with the teams, unlike NASCAR

Then came the 08 season, I can honestly say I had more enjoyment watching the drag races than the FD event. There was an overkill on the commercialization (Seriously you guys had a car sponsored by Home Depot, what the F is this NASCRAP). The practice was a joke, the parking was beyond FUBAR, you had less sponsors and less teams, which led to less team interaction, you have no locals or amatuers bothering to come anymore for no other reason than you telling them pretty much to go home or sit in the stands.... Speaking of which, we could see *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* from where we were sitting, the track is nothing more than one giant circle, what's the fun in that. Oh and the cars you guys have anymore suck, I go to these events to see S13's, S14's, Rx 7's, Ae86's the occassional Skyline, Sorer, S15, or Altezza, not GXP after GXP, after GXP after Solstice or mustangs, or corvettes or you get my point. Gush's Mustang was the bomb, Sams Viper was awesome, hell the charger kicks *Censored**Censored**Censored*, so did Rhys' GTO but they were 3 american muscle in a field of 20-30 japanese iron. now it's the other way around.

- Again, we do not control what sponsors sponsor what cars. The Home Depot I believe was a local deal a driver had put together with a local HD rep and props to them for supporting a local/AM guy that you seem to like. We have nothing to do with that or care to get involved with what companies sponsor what teams. If you have an issue with that, you should take it up to them. Personally, I like to see teams being creative with the sponsorship dealings. If they can close a deal that helps them build a better program, is that not good?
- Again, we have had about the same sponsors for the past few years
- Again, we do not tell any drivers to go home or to attend. It is an open door if you make the basic requirements which already described to you above.
- And again, domestics do not out number the Japanese or import cars and we do not decide or tell drivers what cars they should choose to drive. Not sure where you are making this assessment from. If you need an accurate count of the number of domestic cars versus the number of import cars, the drivers page on our website is a good reference. Again the number is about 100+ import to 7 domestics. Perhaps the success of those domestics have given you the feeling of a bigger presence though it does not represent reality.
- You might find it interesting that neither Ford, GM or Dodge/Mopar is a sponsor of Formula Drift. As a matter of fact the only car maker that is a sponsor of the series is Mazda, a Japanese brand.
- By the way, what drag races are you referring to? We did not have drag races at E-Town

You are turning into NASCRAP, and you are losing your die hard fans for those brainless monkeys and ricers that tune into NASCAR and go to HIN. D1 had the right idea at the start, but after seeing how you trounced on there parade and turned the sport of drifting into yet another bastardized commercialized version with more NASCAR than Grassroots they gave up the ghost and left and now this new iteration of D1 seems to have followed your footsteps and turned it into a tiny bit of drifting with a whole bunch of fanfare and car show.

- So the point of Formula Drift is a professional drifting championship. We are trying to bring the highest level of competition to each event. The intention is not to make it a grassroots competition. However, and I am not sure how much you follow our press releases or not, but at SEMA we announced that we will include FD Pro/Am at many of our rounds next year. This may excite you since you like grassroots and AM drifting so much.
-Also, since I have access to data, I can tell you that over the past 5 years we have shown that we have over a 90 percent retention rate of fans. What that means is that 9 out of 10 people that attended our first event in an area also attended the following years and the most recent. So unlike your assertion that we are losing core fans, the opposite seems to be true according to the data we have. This may be your assessment from some kind of anecdotal evidence from talking to your groups of friends who share the same opinion, but that is definitely the extreme minority and not based on hard evidence. We actually go quite a large length to understand our fans, what they like and don't like so we can make sure we making decisions that help us grow

I know you're going to say that E-town was a new venue and you have things to iron out about it blah blah blah, that's BS. Fix the parking, get rid of the long *Censored**Censored**Censored* 3 hour break, fix the eating, pick a different more technical section of the track or better yet go to Thunderbolt Raceway and use thier track, get rid of the commercialization, I know I'd gladly pay a few bucks more for a better event that was more like the 05 season and less like Nascar. Get the GM and Ford and DC out of the sponsor pool, bring back the grass roots aspects and for the love of god get the Sylvia's, Hatchis, RX's and there kin back in the stable and remove all the goddamn GXP's and american car out of there. Your fans will thank you and you might actually see an increase in profits.

- Actually, I wont be saying that things will be ironed out because E-Town was a new venue. If you follow this board you would have seen that we have been very vocal about our disappointment in some of the failures of the things at E-town of which included parking, online will call fulfillment, and other items. Unfortunately, many of those items we handled exclusively by the track and so were out of our hands, but we have been very clear with them about how we cannot let those things happen again and they very much recognize those failures as well.
- Regarding the competition, I am sorry you were not entertained with the track. That is actually the only way you can run that track that makes sense and this was actually a very popular track amongst the drivers. Consequently we went to great expense to put up grandstands and did not raise ticket prices in doing so. Sorry that was not good enough. You should know people have been lobbying us for years to go to that track. Wall was actually a much more turn-key venue and we controlled our own parking and if you have been to those events you know they were run smoothly.
- You may not have known but we booked and scheduled the E-town event in one month because our Wall date was cancelled by Wall one month prior to the event date and we had no other choice. Thunderbolt simply will not work for reasons I wont go into here.
- Again, I don't see too many similarities to us and NASCAR since I have explained and rebutted most of your assertions. We have always had about the same number of sponsors, we do not control which companies sponsor what teams or how many cars a sponsor can put their logo on, GM, Ford and DC are not sponsors of the series, we do not control what cars drivers choose and our format has not changed so much. The things that have, have been for the good like more transparent judging, etc. Did I is anything that you compared us to NASCAR even though those items don't really have too much similarities to the way NASCAR is run either, but I understood what you meant with the comparison
- For E-Town, I will agree the break between 32 and top 16 was excessive and if you have been to Wall in the past you know that was not intentional since the main break is about 1 and 1/2 to 2 hours which is reasonable and necessary for sponsors. Again, without going into details that break time was out of our hands.

I think it is important for you to understand that though FD is responsible for the path of the series there are certain things that we do not control like what cars teams should pick for competition. This is one of many things that we do not control, nor care to. We only set guidelines for rules and teams should have the right to use the vehicles and sponsors they desire. If you look around, this is the USA. It only makes sense that teams are going to partner with vehicles and sponsors that are relevant to the marketplace. That is why you will see people driving cars that are sold here and built with parts mostly from here. I say mostly because of course there are exceptions. As a fan, I too love S-15's and Hachi's but the reality is that one day those cars will not be relevant anymore and so they will not be used. Even D1 will evolve like that if they have a business here in the states. We have already seen the Hachi's slowing dying out whether as fans we like it or not. The drifting cars of tomorrow will be vehicles that are sold here. It is smart for entry level and smaller teams/drivers to use vehicles that are cost effective to build and maintain. Many of these cars are still extremely competitive. However, when a drivers marketability or skill set reaches are certain level, opportunities for an automaker or a brand will present itself and you will see drivers in cars that are relevant for that brand. Of course many teams will still use S-13's and such. Those vehicles are a great platform and also have a certain iconic level to it as well. But is it clear to see why we have a large number of newer Nissan's in the series as well as many new platforms coming online. New RX 8's, Scion, Z's etc. It only makes sense. That is why it makes sense for GM, Ford and other domestic brands to get involved as well. Additionally, I applaud them for continuing to support drivers in this hellish economy and since all domestic brands seem to be hurting. With the exception of GM, everyone is still in the game.

So now that I hope you have a better understanding of why things are the way they are, are you totally bummed out? If so, I understand. As a fan of SuperCross and MotoCross I was bummed when everyone moved over to 4-strokes since I am a 2-stroke fan, but you know what that? That is is what progression and evolution of a sport is all about.

let me know if there is anything else I can help with.

[MonkeySlide]

Sweet Lawd Jeebus..

Chaotic...dude really its probably best that Formula D responded to you before I could because...wow..really just..wow..

And Cavi..

I agree whole-heartedly and it's very ironic you bring up FD at Wall, NJ. Sept 2007 was the first (and last) FD event I attended and I was totally appalled by what I experienced. It's no longer an exhibition to entertain a crowd, it's just another competition for people looking to be #1. I was really taken aback by what I witnessed and if anyone wants to know my exact thoughts you can read them here.

Professional drifting is an exhibition. You are there to show off your skills to entertain a crowd. The only person you are competing against is yourself. If you only strive to be better than the person ahead of you, you already lost.

Really? I mean REALLY?

"Professional" drifting has ALWAYS been a competition D1 has ALWAYS been a competition.

Professional drifting is a MOTORSPORT not a side show or exhibition. Sure part of it is competing with yourself but its also about competing against your competitors!

I guess you haven't really caught on to this but people actually find competition quite entertaining! It is also what makes a "sport" a sport!

Do you think anyone would watch a basketball game if none of the baskets made counted for any points? Would people just sit there and watch to see who can shoot a prettier 3 point shot? Sure watching dunks is cool and they have events for that kind of thing but hell even the And1 team COMPETES against other teams!

Competiton against others raises the skill level of the drivers and makes it more fun for them and for MANY of the people watching.

[GBC]

Who is everyone? What information do you have that lets you know what areas are asking for this type of event? Yes, there are drifting fans in all 51 states. I know this from our own data. So what gives you better info than the group that has been ground level for the past 5 years? Chicago, we already know what that market can bare. So what intelligence or insight tells you that you can do it better then the years we gave this area? Granted, there is a market there, but not in the parking lot/build a venue setting? Is the assumption that we are sub par and you can do it better?

OMG we got a new state?

:P

[Chaotic_Warlord]

FD, I see all your points and rebuttals, I understand you have to take whatever sponsors are out there due the current state of the economy, which is why NOPI Drift died, but at the same time I have to say I don't agree with some of the choices, ie Sears, home Depot,ect... since they have nothing whatsoever to do with the sport, I'm not going to go to either place and by parts for my car. As far as E-Town goes, i was unaware that your hands were tied as far as the whole event was run. I'm just going off of my experiences @ Wall which I think was run perfectly and was a kickass track. No matter where you sat @ Wall you always had a good view of the track and the action, the grandstands @ E-Town didn't really give you much of a view since the bulk of the track and action was a mile away.

As far as the track section used at E-Town goes it consisted of on high speed sweeper which is good for long angle drifts and massive smoke which is good stuff, but so are transitions of which E-town had like 1 at the very end, again Wall was a circle 8 track format which means it had a big sweeper at the start and the rest was transitions, all of which equals win in my book. i'm terribly saddened that the economy had to take yet another grassroots track out of use, but what can you do.

I understand the rule book, I understand the license and I see how amateurs can compete, but when they show up they don't stand a chance against the huge teams. I'm also disappointed by the fact that some of the sponsors decided to not be as fan friendly as they were in the past, Rockstar decided not to offer up any free cans, which on that day would have been a welcome blessing since it was so effing hot and that is just one example. The Falken team was their usual salesmen self and the drivers were mostly friendly, but since the event was a giant charlie foxtrot (again unbeknown to the fans was out of your control). The 3 hour break was ungodly, and top 8 is usually run at night which amps up the action even more. Hopefully this year you have more control and things are run better. I'll still show up, just as I have since 05 but I will have my doubts while I'm there unless I see a difference from last years event.

as far as the cars are concerned, I understand that times change, vehicles change, and as such you need to have your finger on the pulse, but at the same time the GXP's and Solstices are too much, The viper is like Fisher Price my first drift car, but it makes a glorious noise and is entertaining to watch. The corvette needs to go, no person in their right mind would drift such a car, the same goes with the Porsche, these are high dollar cars that aren't really obtainable to your average fan, most of us show up in 240's, Civics, and Scions you are trying to say that the average team has the funds to drift one of those cars, I think not.

to anyone who says it is a competition and not an exhibition is on crack, it 2 parts show and 1 part competition, it's not a race, its about style and grace and control. What ever happened to guys riding the doors and the antics of Tarzan Yamada, it brings a smile to anyones face who is there and I don't know about anyone else but I'm there to breath in the yummy smell of burnt rubber watch and listen to the sounds produced by the cars and to share a little face time with the drivers. I'm not there to look at like 150 scions 50 civics a handful of RWD japanese iron... Where are the supra's, where are the Skylines, where are the Evo's and RX7's.

Why doesn't Rhys dad show up in his silver RX8 anymore, where is Ernie Fixmer and his S13, where is the Enjuku racing team, where are AMS and the other shops at that used to compete? Why doesn't Alex get back out there and show how its done anymore?

Ernie, the Enjuku crew, McKinney Motorsports and the rest of the stateside tuning teams are who we buy our parts from, not Sears, not Best Buy, not Pep Boys, the tuner shops are who you need to sell sponsors time to, it's who we buy from, its who we talk to, it's who gets our respect. Falken, Cooper, Hankook are just who we get our tires from and with drifting this is important, but we need to see more tuners and parts companies out in the paddock area. I would love it if you guys got the NOPI Drift and the old D1 USA guys back into the mix, because honestly the top 16 is always the same, Tanner, Rhy's, Sam, Dai, Tyler, Mikki, Angelo, JR, ect ect ect and sometimes Gushi if he's lucky. Again I understand you haven't changed "format", you haven't changed sponsors, you had no control over how E-Town turned out and everything, I just wanted to get my points out there that the last 2 years have been highly disappointing and that i would like for things to go back to the way they were in 05 and 06.

[Ter-Tech Drift]

He means Puerto Rico as the newest state

[Bebop]

LOL, he said that? hahahha. Man the guys in japan must use that video when they want some comedy. The only drivers in the US that I feel come close to japan skills are JR (best US drifter in my opinion), Rhys, Tanner, and Sam. I cant believe Forsberg said that lol. Yea mustve been an amateur event for girls or children.

I hope some of the FD guys come out to the D1 events and show what they got to offer. I love D1GP but I'm pro USA when it comes to Japan vs US. I also really hope that FD and D1 can patch up their differences so we can see who the real top dogs in this game are. I think I already know the outcome to that tho.

I dont agree with the US 100% more accelerated stuff. What facts due you base this on? US (FD) has ugly cars, lots of boring drivers, and its always based on competition. Its not that fun. On top of that, at the drift events themselves they always have ugly models, weak rappers, crappy judging, bad MC's (Like when he called Takatori's R34 and 240sx, lol! that was the worst!) and bad organization. Like I said, I'm not an FD hater, I just want to see them get better!

The event fors went too was a reg grassroots events, and iirc this is what the drivers were saying about his skill.

And like you said, JR is up too par with D1 drivers and he has been drifting for like...7 years?

Have we forgotten that Fors was the first guy to be a D1 driver in tandem back in 04?

Between the accomplishments of JR, Fors, Tanner, Rhys etc etc isn't that proof enough that American drivers are catching on a lot faster then Japanese guys did?

One event at the time, if the Japanese drivers are so true and so advanced why didn't Orido and Yoshioka win every event that they entered in the states this year?

I love D1 japan, not really feeling this US D1 thing yet. But I feel the top 16 FD guys stack up toe to toe with the top 32 D1 guys. FDs bottom 16 still needs work,but its mostly from lack of budget and seat time for a lot of those guys. D1s core 32 are essentially equal, depends on the track, the setup, and the politics .

Any Given Weekend.

[Lord_EJR]

....if the Japanese drivers are so true and so advanced why didn't Orido and Yoshioka win every event that they entered in the states this year?

Weak judging is most likely the culprit. It also seems to me that they sandbag to let the US boys win. When you watch the same drivers in D1 or just drifting in japan, they go way more balls out.

Orido for example, he got his nickname "Max" because he always went to the max in the D1 events. Did you see him at D1 vegas? He played it so safe, even missing clipping points and all. Come on now, you know Orido is way more capable than that.

I dont agree that FD's top 16 is that good. Its only a handful. You bring Team burst, Magician, or dare I say, Team Orange here and it would be a total landslide. Unless ofcourse FD is judging, then some how Rhys Millen would probably beat everyone, LOL.

[Slapshotnerd]

FD, I see all your points and rebuttals, I understand you have to take whatever sponsors are out there due the current state of the economy, which is why NOPI Drift died, but at the same time I have to say I don't agree with some of the choices, ie Sears, home Depot,ect... since they have nothing whatsoever to do with the sport, I'm not going to go to either place and by parts for my car. As far as E-Town goes, i was unaware that your hands were tied as far as the whole event was run. I'm just going off of my experiences @ Wall which I think was run perfectly and was a kickass track. No matter where you sat @ Wall you always had a good view of the track and the action, the grandstands @ E-Town didn't really give you much of a view since the bulk of the track and action was a mile away.

As far as the track section used at E-Town goes it consisted of on high speed sweeper which is good for long angle drifts and massive smoke which is good stuff, but so are transitions of which E-town had like 1 at the very end, again Wall was a circle 8 track format which means it had a big sweeper at the start and the rest was transitions, all of which equals win in my book. i'm terribly saddened that the economy had to take yet another grassroots track out of use, but what can you do.

I understand the rule book, I understand the license and I see how amateurs can compete, but when they show up they don't stand a chance against the huge teams. I'm also disappointed by the fact that some of the sponsors decided to not be as fan friendly as they were in the past, Rockstar decided not to offer up any free cans, which on that day would have been a welcome blessing since it was so effing hot and that is just one example. The Falken team was their usual salesmen self and the drivers were mostly friendly, but since the event was a giant charlie foxtrot (again unbeknown to the fans was out of your control). The 3 hour break was ungodly, and top 8 is usually run at night which amps up the action even more. Hopefully this year you have more control and things are run better. I'll still show up, just as I have since 05 but I will have my doubts while I'm there unless I see a difference from last years event.

as far as the cars are concerned, I understand that times change, vehicles change, and as such you need to have your finger on the pulse, but at the same time the GXP's and Solstices are too much, The viper is like Fisher Price my first drift car, but it makes a glorious noise and is entertaining to watch. The corvette needs to go, no person in their right mind would drift such a car, the same goes with the Porsche, these are high dollar cars that aren't really obtainable to your average fan, most of us show up in 240's, Civics, and Scions you are trying to say that the average team has the funds to drift one of those cars, I think not.

to anyone who says it is a competition and not an exhibition is on crack, it 2 parts show and 1 part competition, it's not a race, its about style and grace and control. What ever happened to guys riding the doors and the antics of Tarzan Yamada, it brings a smile to anyones face who is there and I don't know about anyone else but I'm there to breath in the yummy smell of burnt rubber watch and listen to the sounds produced by the cars and to share a little face time with the drivers. I'm not there to look at like 150 scions 50 civics a handful of RWD japanese iron... Where are the supra's, where are the Skylines, where are the Evo's and RX7's.

Why doesn't Rhys dad show up in his silver RX8 anymore, where is Ernie Fixmer and his S13, where is the Enjuku racing team, where are AMS and the other shops at that used to compete? Why doesn't Alex get back out there and show how its done anymore?

Ernie, the Enjuku crew, McKinney Motorsports and the rest of the stateside tuning teams are who we buy our parts from, not Sears, not Best Buy, not Pep Boys, the tuner shops are who you need to sell sponsors time to, it's who we buy from, its who we talk to, it's who gets our respect. Falken, Cooper, Hankook are just who we get our tires from and with drifting this is important, but we need to see more tuners and parts companies out in the paddock area. I would love it if you guys got the NOPI Drift and the old D1 USA guys back into the mix, because honestly the top 16 is always the same, Tanner, Rhy's, Sam, Dai, Tyler, Mikki, Angelo, JR, ect ect ect and sometimes Gushi if he's lucky. Again I understand you haven't changed "format", you haven't changed sponsors, you had no control over how E-Town turned out and everything, I just wanted to get my points out there that the last 2 years have been highly disappointing and that i would like for things to go back to the way they were in 05 and 06.

You definitely have no idea how sponsorships and business in general work

Why no free rockstar? Because Red Bull paid for exclusivity.
Why no McKinney / Enjuku / Ernie Fixmer / Etc anymore? Because they all went broke trying to run teams. They spent $100k's trying to run their teams, and they weren't getting $100k's back. Companies like Falken / Hankook / Bridgestone have huge $XXm+ motorsport budgets, because they sell 100k+ of set of tires.
Where are the Supras, Skylines, Evo's, and RX7's? being sold on Ebay for $25k each. S13's are still available for 2 or 3k, and most of the other 'new' cars were sponsored from the manufacturers (aka $1 cars).
Rhys's Dad's RX8 = Tony Angelo's RX8.
Porsche = an old cup car that was sitting around at the shop, aka it was VERY cheap to build for drifting (and got TONS of publicity). JIC isn't trying to sell Porsches, they're trying to get publicity for their shop / suspension.
Why is Sears / Circuit City / Army National Guard / Clarion / other non-endemic sponsors involved? Because they have buckets of cash and want to reach the 18-30 year old mostly-male demographic which FD attracts.

I think i'll leave it at that.

[Cavi Mike]

Really? I mean REALLY?

"Professional" drifting has ALWAYS been a competition D1 has ALWAYS been a competition.

Professional drifting is (not an) exhibition.

Yes and wrong. The Japanese may compete but if they don't put on a good show for the crowd, they haven't done their job. That goes for any of their professional sports, especially drifting.

..I..type..too..much..

Seriously dude, do you really expect me to read every single one of your novels? All you've proven to me is that you can type at 300 words per minute. I'd rather take in a good book and a cup of tea.

[Formula D]

OMG we got a new state?

haha, good catch! I wish I could say typo but the "0" and "1" are no where near each other.

Chaotic_Warlord, your angst is your angst so I can't judge you, but it seems to be misdirected. You are complaining to Formula Drift on things that don't necessarily have anything to do with us. Monkeyslide laid it out pretty good. I think it i just a matter of you understanding soem of the details within the series and drifting overall. Rockstar is a good example of that. They are not a sponsor so they do not give out drinks. AND again, we do not control what cars the drivers perform in. If you don't like a certain vehicle that a driver uses, you shoudl take that up with them.

Lord_ERJ, I think Orido and Yoshioka would find it disrespectful that you would think they were sand bagging when they compete in FD. I can tell you with great confidence, they most certainly did not.

Also, what is weak judging? You think that FD judges are harsher on Japanese drivers? If that is the case, then why would Yoshioka even win an event? There is no logic in that. Judging in drifting will almost always be critiqued. Any subjective sport generally is. However, if you have seen the progression of our judging leading all the way into the Red Bull event, it is pretty clear that we have the most transparent system. Each judge is accountable for the score in qualifying and their pick for head to head. They are also required to take notes so that after the event if a driver wants to know specifically why they lost, the judge can answer intelligently and honestly. This process sometimes slows things, which I do not like, but it solves the issue of judging not being as transparent as it could be. In D1 for example DK pretty much determines everything. End of question. That is fine of course, but certainly not as evolved of a system.

Also, as a general statement regarding sandbagging. It does happen. Because we have evolved our system over time, this year we had a point system in tandem that gave the drivers points after each lap of a head ot head. If a driver had an extreme advantage, it was not uncommon for them to sandbag. Though this is smart drifting in some cases, this is not good for fans or viewing. I agree wholeheartedly with people on this. So.... If you noticed at the Red Bull event, we gave no points or advantage after each lap. This did makes the driver push it more. It led to more action, more closeness and for some more damage to their vehicles. This is likely a system we will continue in 2009.

Seriously dude, do you really expect me to read every single one of your novels? All you've proven to me is that you can type at 300 words per minute. I'd rather take in a good book and a cup of tea.

I don't expect you to do anything.... and yes, a good book and tea are fine. I do this and take the time because I feel our organization should never to be too big to discuss things openly and honestly. Additionally, since it is the weekend, I have the time to be thorough and answer as many inquiries as I can. You can choose to read or not.

[courantcom]

This thread started simply because "D1" announced a schedule for 2009. It quickly became a D1 vs FD thing.

Everyone bothered by all this should take a deep breath allow this discussion to redirect because I'm just watching people dig deeper and deeper holes that I know they will never be able to crawl out of.

Happy New Year Everyone! =)