Drift a Carrera?

[FreeThinker]

Thanks for that, it really helps out. Here is some footage for you, mine has about 80 less hp but you can see it looks fun.

What is the best way to get the drift started in the 911? Ebrake? Feint?

Here is some footage for you

http://videos.streetfire.net/Player....1936&kw=27&p=1

I would say you have to feel it out, it's been a long time since I've been in a RWD 911 but with so much weight in the back, a small feint comined with quick throttle input should be enough to get it to come around.

Another thing I forgot to mention for the 911 is that getting some serious steering angle is pretty important. Since the car will step out sideways very fast, a lot of steering angle can help you catch it. Modern 911's are strut suspension in front so you should be able to add steering angle easily, get rid of bumpstops, maybe have a machinist make some steering spacers, wheel spacers for more clearance to teh control arm. Every time you change something, find out the next thing that hits until you have the steering angle you want.



PS- I'm pretty serious about wanting to see more high end cars get into drifting and spreading it to a wider audience, especially people who normally go clubracing. Just PM me if you need any more help trying to mod your car for drifting or driving tips.

[Hollywood]

might also help to up grade to an LSD, if you do not already have one

[Ghost of Duluth]

I would have to say the only problem you will have is the "Snap". My 911 would do just fine but if you let off the least bit it would snap around on you like a rubber band. Once again that is a car that falls under the "Sweet spot" type of vehicles. All cars are like Baseball bats. Some bats have a much larger area or sweet spot, some have a smaller one. S-14's have a large sweet spot, throw them out there and they land in the good zone pretty easily and are ealisy controlled. 1st Gen RX-7s on the other hand do not, you have to constantly correct and fight the car. In other words you will actually have to drive the car instead of letting it do most of the work.

But if you got the money, go for it. Would be interesting to see.

[ToplessFC3Sman]

Yea, with a RR car like the carrera, it has a polar moment of inertia similiar to that of an FR, but depending on the type of drift, it can react much differently. It all depends on the location of the "center of grip" with relation to where the mass is concentrated. If you generally perform 4 wheel drifts, it will feel similiar because with all 4 tires in the same state of drift, the car will want to rotate around its center; aka the center of grip will be in the center of the car, and the moment arm to the engine mass will be close to what it woudl be for an FR. Thus the polar moment of inertia will be close and the car will behave in the same manner. However, if you drift more with the back wheels while maintaining the fronts pointing in the direction of travel (as is generally attained with the handbrake, clutch kicks, and power-overs in a RWD car), the center of grip is up near the front tires. This produces a much larger moment in a RR than an FR car, meaning its harder to rotate, but once its rotating, its harder to get it to stop rotating. This could be good or bad depending on your drifting style.

Inertial drifts are a little bit different, because with the sudden change in direction, the rear of the car and all the associated mass back there is given an initial velocity. If there is more mass in back, there will be more associated momentum for the same maneuver, so more drastic measures (whether more countersteer, or earlier, or a slight weight shift to the rear) would be required to control it since more momentum is trying to get the car to rotate. Thus, for the same amount of driver response, less of a flick is required to get the tail out

Just a note on the center of grip: it is dependant on how much friction and resistance to travel in a certain direction is present, which in turn is a function of vehicle mass, wheelbase, weight distribution, coefficient of friction of the tires, tire contact patch, tire performance at various slip angles, and a few other things. For a given steering angle, if the vector in which the car is travelling is at that angle, the front wheels have virtually no resistance to that direction, and will act as a pivot point, while the rears do have a resistance to that direction due to slip (they would prefer to go straight). This places the center of grip between the front wheels. if the vector is less, than the motion of hte car will induce slip angles in the front tires, and the fronts will have some resistance to being moved in that direction. This will shift the CoG rearward. In normal, no-slip driving, the CoG will exist right between the rear wheels (assuming only the front wheels are steered). This can be visuallized when the car is in steady-state cornering with minimal slip. The front wheels now have a greater resistance to travel in the straight direction, but almost no resistance to travel in the direction in which they are pointed. This is the inverse case of the first example above, with the CoG between the rear wheels instead of the fronts.

wow, i didnt mean for this to be that long and technical... whoops Thats what lots of mountain dew, little sleep, and avoidance of a philosophy paper will do to you

[atlantian]

If i had a 2000 carrera i dont think i would be asking how to drift it on the internet... but i mean.. since it is the internet. How do i drift my Buggatti Veyron?? Do i need to tweak the flux capacitor???

First of all, Porsches are no were near exotic.

At FreeThinker, I think the 930 is too much of a collector's item to be thrown around.

FreeThinker is right, it does gives a confident ride.

[eomund240]

Why did you just revive a thread that's 2 years old?

[atlantian]

Why did you just revive a thread that's 2 years old?

I just wanted to see what people had to say about rear engine cars in the application of drifting. I wonder if people would bash the Chevy Corsair that is "Unsafe at Any Speed".

[soultron]

I just wanted to see what people had to say about rear engine cars in the application of drifting. I wonder if people would bash the Chevy Corsair that is "Unsafe at Any Speed".

Corsair? What are talking about? Also, I'm pretty sure there was a more current RR thread going on...

[Piner]

Its chevy "corvair " and those are sweet cars my family has had 7 of them my dad used to restore them for fun. We still have 3 up north at my grandpas.

Great cars, they are only unsafe if you don't know how to drive

[atlantian]

Sorry about my misspelling. By the way, I was referencing to the book "unsafe at any speed" It had a whole chapter on the Corvair.

[Piner]

Sorry about my misspelling. By the way, I was referencing to the book "unsafe at any speed" It had a whole chapter on the Corvair.

Every corvair owner knows that book and hates Ralph Nader with a passion.

[atlantian]

I don't really hate Jeremy Clarkson when he comments on the early Porsche 911's and calls it a beetle and is an extremly dangerous sports car.

I just say that it's because "there is so much grip that builds up, that it snaps when it lets go". But my friends try to dissuaid me from the 911 by pulling up all the top gear videos from youtube. My friends wanted me to get a Lotus Esprit or a Delorean.

Criticisms of Corvair:

The subject for which the book is probably most widely known is covered in the first chapter, General Motors' Chevrolet Corvair. The chapter is subtitled "The One-Car Accident". The 1960–1963 Corvairs had a rear engine and a suspension design which was prone to "tuck under" in certain circumstances and which required drivers to maintain proper tire pressures which were outside of the tire manufacturer's recommended tolerances for the tire. The tires had an unusually high front:rear differential (15psi front, 26psi rear, when cold; 18 psi and 30psi hot). The tire pressures were more critical than for most contemporaneous designs, but this was not made explicitly clear to salespeople or owners. According to the standards laid down by the Tire and Rim Association, the relevant industry body, the pressures also rendered the tires overloaded when there were two or more passengers on board. An unadvertised at-cost option (#696) included upgraded springs and dampers, front anti-roll bars and rear axle rebound straps to prevent tuck-under. Aftermarket kits were also available, such as the EMPI Camber Compensator, for the knowledgeable owner. The suspension design was modified for the 1964 model year, just far enough ahead of publication to allow its inclusion in the book; most significantly a second, outboard constant velocity joint was added to maintain a constant camber angle at the wheels. Corvairs from 1965 on were of this type and did not suffer the characteristic tuck-under crashes.

Are any of those characteristics prevailant?

[Piner]

Idk we've done some pretty stupid stuff in those cars before and never really had a problem, the design is very similar to a VW beetle and really those cars didnt get picked on almost at all. They had similar problems. But mostly I feel that it was the drivers fault in most of those incidents

[atlantian]

I don't think that the beetle is a car to be picked on, but rather a car to call another car as an insult. As in Jeremy Clarkson calling the Carrera a Beetle. It's kind of like the horse and buggy, you don't make fun of it much, but you call a really bad car a horse and buggy.

But the thing is, rear engined cars are not at all bad, they are really good econocar formats, which now is starting to be favored over front engine front wheel drive. And it is a good sports car layout too.

[Piner]

I don't think that the beetle is a car to be picked on, but rather a car to call another car as an insult. As in Jeremy Clarkson calling the Carrera a Beetle. It's kind of like the horse and buggy, you don't make fun of it much, but you call a really bad car a horse and buggy.

But the thing is, rear engined cars are not at all bad, they are really good econocar formats, which now is starting to be favored over front engine front wheel drive. And it is a good sports car layout too.

it being an RR isn't the problem it was the layout of the suspension. The early corvair had an almost identical layout as the beetle but the corvair was the only car called out for the tucking problem in the 60's where the beetle had already came before it and experienced the same problems. But they weren't mentioned in said book.