D1GP DIRECTOR QUITs.....

[Tracy]

I wasnt there to watch so I can't say for sure, but maybe he was just better? If those judges were politcally motivated tino, and verena with their big sponsorships would have licenses now. They are from california too...

and if your local events were cancelled, take it up with us drift or whoever was organizing it, YOU should take that initiative since you have the biggest issue with it, and apparantly have your own series.

You are saying this assuming that I haven't also assuming that I have the biggest issue with it. I represent a lot of South East driver with the things I say....I know this because I HAVE A SERIES and I make damn sure that I try to do my best to listen to their grievences. I know damn full and well that you can't make everyone happy all of the time, but as you must have read, John said we are not the only ones with these concerns. Maybe just the only ones willing to voice it. We have very little to lose you see. We stand very little chance at this point of getting a FD license...becuase it is not accessible for us. The only way I see for us to have a chance at getting one is to state my concerns and hope that someone reading is willing to address them.

Quok (SP?) was an awesome driver, but I think there was more than just him and there should be more than one opportunity to get your license. That was the reson for the "everyone has a bad day" reply. Everyone is not on their game everyday...pro or otheriwse. I was definately not ready for my license that day and definately did not deserve it. It was my very first day in my brand new car. I am, however, ready now and was ready for the 3 events that were cancelled in my area. There have been numerous opportunities for the West Caost driver to recieve their license. Why were we given only 1?

[Tracy]

Tracy, I'll tell you this, there is such fundamental resistance against spending money amongst the track promoters I know of in Ohio alone that it's hard for new organizations of any kind to break into a new circuit.

Drifting, in particular, has to buck the negative press that the import scene garners because of the ancillary activity at NOPI and Hot Import Nights events. Track owners don't want anything that would tarnish the "family friendly" reputation of the local oval. The fellows of Outbrake over at Kilkare Speedway in Xenia, Ohio, have done well to show that amateur drifting won't harm a track, but now it has to be shown that drifting can benefit a track too.

If we follow Wall Stadium's example, coupled with a family friendly atmosphere, we can really make something happen in Ohio.

All I can say is this, it's going to take someone with a good relationship with the tracks or at least a good business plan and some money to make some of the tracks let us drift. It's going to happen. It already is. I don't know how it will turn out and I can't vouch for that. All I can do it hope that it turns out good...just like everyone else that is for it overhere. I'm a no one as far as any of that goes. I'm just trying to be an ambassador for the poeple that I know deserve to drive on a pro level. If Formula D wants to step in and do it...by all means, I'm there.


On another note. I have some questions. Why were certain drivers given provisionals? Why were we not? Why was Andy Sapp not? What is the criteria to prove yourself for a provisional? That's a bit confusing to me.

Also, why when I approached certain FD associates about helping with a qualifier in the South East on MY BUDGET and MY INSURANCE was I ignored. What is the criteria for that? My grassroots events are the only one in the country so far without a cancellation this season. We also have more spectator attendance than any other organization in the country besides FD. We had 2500 paying spectators at our very first event! Now that I think of it, we also have recieved the most coverage mag wise. We were featured in Import Performance (new name for Import Racer) Magazine in the March 2006 issue. We also had a 5 page feature in drifting mag in the August 2006 issue. What more could you ask for?

[Tracy]

http://www.drifting.com/forums/showt...d=1#post193628

I moved over here. Sorry for getting off topic guys

[Formula D]

Tracy, if you say you are having issues getting someone over hear to listen to you, you can contact myself or Jim directly. Our contacts are listed on our website.

[Slapshotnerd]

1st, when I speak of drag racing, I think the people in "our" industry only think of sport compact/import drag racing. There are several other forms of drag racing that do extremely well. How about Funny Car and Top Fuel, just to name 2. I watch those all of the time and the turn out is amazing.

Top fuel teams have a per-race budget that sport compact teams have for an entire year. They also have a lot more TV time (live TV, at that) and about 10-20x as many fans. Formula D / drifting and sport compact racing are similar demographics (younger GenX / GenY fans, etc) and have been around for similar periods of time (drifting for the past 5 years, sport compact / import drag racing for around 10 years, NHRA has been around for 50 years.) Most NHRA fans are 2nd or 3rd generation NHRA fans and 'grew up' around it. That's not possible yet for import drag racing / drifting fans.

2ndly, We haven't gotten paid for 1 single demo.......
Dan and I came out of pocket for everything we did this year. We recieved money from NO ONE!

That's something I believe you should have negotiated differently in your contract then. I have knowledge of drivers getting paid for certain demos (won't get more specific, but i know it has happened for multiple different drivers at multiple different events) because organizers A) know that drifting has more pull than some of their other 'lifestyle' events, B) know that 'employees' at events should get paid - if you're not competing in a competition, then you were hired specifically to do a job (in this case, drifting) and should be compensated appropriately. If you spend X hours at an event hired by the promotor for Y purpose, then you need to be given Z dollars.

In the end, I just want to drive!

I just want to take pictures and write articles for magazines. But my skill can't be achieved by the average person off the street - i have a lot of time invested in perfecting my skills, and I have a lot of money invested in my equipment. Therefore, when I write or shoot photos, I ask for compensation. There are certain times when a 'trade out' might be appropriate, but those are the exception, not the rule.

The concern about whether or not the new series will be "about the drivers" is understandable. I'm hoping to help make sure that it turns out that way. I AM A DRIVER. THAT'S WHERE MY INTEREST LIE....WITH THE DRIVERS. I thik that's one of the reasons our series has been very sucessful. We kept it about the drivers and not about getting rich. I listen to everythig they say and I feel them, because I am one of them.

There was another series which was 'attempted' which was started 'by a driver, for the drivers'. it was called World Drifting Championships. They had a large corporate backing as well (Primedia, several other sponsors). They failed, for more reasons than once, but saying you're 'for the drivers' isn't much. Jim and Ryan have made Formula D very much about the drivers. More than D1 has been about the drivers (D1 is about selling the DVD's, there's no denying that). So you still haven't given me a reason to support another series.

I WOULD BE HAPPY IF FD DECIDED TO DO AN EAST COAST SERIES. I DON'T CARE WHO DOES IT! I JUST WANT US TO BE ABLE DRIVE ON A COMPETITIVE LEVEL OVER HERE!

I think i have a solution for you, i started a new thread. What if Chicago / Atlanta / NJ had a 'semi pro' level which had a regional championship? you still drive in front of the same FD crowd of 8k or so per event, you are just in a seperate 'division' from Rhys / Sam. Would that work for you? That way, the same promotional dollars can go towards one event instead of 2. You get the same if not more exposure as if there were 2 completely seperate drifting 'circuits'. Just a thought...

[quote]I want myself and others like me to be able to enjoy and progress in drifting. I don't think that's too much to ask. [quote]
I think that the east coast has just as many if not more events for the amateur up-and-coming drifter to be able to progress and even compete in tandem than the west coast does. Outside of California, there isn't much available, especially for tandem. The east coast has more access to events than they realize.

The same type of thing happened when we started our series here in Atlanta. Some people thought there wasn't enough driver interest to have two amateur/practice series. WEll the fact is, both of them are doing fine and are prospering.

The difference is that Atlanta is much smaller than many other cities. I think atlanta has as many if not more local competitions than LA does. Just drift has been having more competitions lately, but the schedule in atlanta was just as rigorous as the greater LA area, and that's a HUGE accomplishment. But the same can't be said about other areas around the US - Chicago, Seattle, Texas, FL, St Louis, etc. You've been to these cities, you know that there are FAR fewer competitions in these areas than there are in Atlanta. There IS opportunity for events in these smaller markets, but they should be focused on attracting 20-30 drivers and helping them develop their skills, not getting 50 'pro' drivers and 5,000 spectators there to have a series to rival Formula D. There's a huge difference in marketing in these 2 approaches, and IF NOPI or any other event promotor does decide to grow a second series, I think it should marketed on this level, not as a rival to FD.

there are more sponsorship dollars out there then you think. therefore, if another series were started that was more east coast based, more AM drivers that are really good but just can't get out to a west coast FD qualifier can go compete, get an out side of motorsports sponsor and move up to FD or even D1.

Think about it. 43+ teams in Nascar, only 43 can run in a race. Each of those teams spends over 3 million alone in tires each season. The money is out there. The drift teams just have to figure out how to get it. If doing two "Pro" series that equals out to say 12 events for the year will help spread that sponsors name, they (the sponsors) will spend the money to sponsor that driver or team.

Not in this market. Nascar has 200k fans per race and millions of fans per TV airing (which is 3 hours long). FD has less than 10% of that in attendance and per TV airing. Therefore, less impressions, less return on investment, etc. Let's face it - Tide / Frosted Flakes / Viagra aren't sponsoring drifting, and those sponsors aren't coming anytime soon because the exposure just isn't there. Therefore, the market must grow slowly, as the sponsors do. I would venture to say that the budget of 1 nascar team could fund the top 10 drifting teams for the entire season, possibly even the top 20 or 25 teams (including building the cars from scratch). Apples to oranges.



*these are my thoughts through page 3. I'm going to work on page 4 and 5 later tonight I have a feeling that many of these thoughts have been echoed already*

[Slapshotnerd]

Guys I really hate to chime in. Personally, I leave all the dialogue to everyone because this is a place to share and debate about issues, ideas, and such in the world of drifting. But I do feel I need to give my 2 cents about a few issues...

import drag racing history lesson:
*GREAT account of history here!*

My point in all of this ranting is this that I have seen it first hand how a new growing sport can be seriously affected by division in the sport. The potential of what import/sport compact drag racing could have been will never be realized because of the events that happened in the last 10 years. Even established Motorsports like open-wheel racing (Champ Car/IRL) can be affected negatively by a split.

Jim - i'm glad you posted here. I don't think a lot of people know about your background, nor about the background in drag racing. The fact is that this is the import drag scene all over, only starting with a much LARGER market (I would say that G4's audience now is what MTV's was back in 94, and MTV wasn't airing drag racing then. Learn from the mistakes of others.

That doesnt make sense to me,you just said that you were involved in the formation of IDRC, and you broke away from D1 to start FD as well. How can you preach that division will hurt the sport (even though i agree with that) when you yourself have been involved in/created division in both sports yourself?

D1 cut Slipstream off. D1 has a habit of firing everybody every 1-2 years and hiring everyone from scratch and paying them pennies. They get people who are eager to work for D1, the name, and will take a pay cut. D1 has shown little interest in promoting drifting here in the states. They've stated intentions of doing a US D1 series here, but 3 years later, there still isn't one. And that's probably a good thing, after hearing about the problems D1 GB is having with them. Slipstream starting FD on their own so that they could directly control the growth of the sport here in the US was the smartest thing that could have happened here in the US.

Jim, honestly, I can get you in touch with Chris Mize and Mike Dzurilla over at Mansfield Motorsports Speedway in Mansfield, Ohio. They host the Craftsman Truck Series event here in Ohio (which sells out every year) and it's a 100% state-of-the-art 1/2 mile oval facility with central pit lane and a 1/4mile figure eight oval in the track center.

It's actually part and parcel of the whole MSA/Formula Drift co-op deal, or (depending on how the political scene in the MSA goes after our new president is elected) the deal might be brokered with the larger ISMA circuit.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make a phone call over to the formula D office tomorrow! Jim / Ryan / Everyone has an open door policy on people giving them legitimate suggestions on events, especially where to hold them! they don't know every facility in the US, they don't claim to. This is a HUGE help to them and WILL be taken seriously!

Tracy, I'll tell you this, there is such fundamental resistance against spending money amongst the track promoters I know of in Ohio alone that it's hard for new organizations of any kind to break into a new circuit.

Drifting, in particular, has to buck the negative press that the import scene garners because of the ancillary activity at NOPI and Hot Import Nights events. Track owners don't want anything that would tarnish the "family friendly" reputation of the local oval. The fellows of Outbrake over at Kilkare Speedway in Xenia, Ohio, have done well to show that amateur drifting won't harm a track, but now it has to be shown that drifting can benefit a track too.

If we follow Wall Stadium's example, coupled with a family friendly atmosphere, we can really make something happen in Ohio.

Again, work with Formula D on this! the recent demo in China was done on a temporary surface which was installed on a 400m running track, and installed in 2-3 days and removed in the same amount of time, with 0 final impact on the surface. If that can be achieved, then drifting can be done on a full time road course or other asphalt surface as well. Thankfully, facilities are realizing this. Recently, the National Orange Show facility in Southern California allowed Drift Buffet to come in and gave them a budget to renovate their facility and make it drift-friendly. I see more facilities doing this in the near future. The revenue opportunities available through drifting are much larger than many of these facilities can see through other private rentals / motorsport events. 30-40 cars and a few hundred spectators and support staff are almost guaranteed, no matter what part of the country you're in.

*this is up through page 4*

[Toycoma]

Need more East Coast presence. Understood and agreed. Anyone have any suggestions on an East Coast venue that can fit the Formula D circus?

OldBridge Raceway in NJ where most of the DA guys plus me and my team mates and a lot of good east coast drifters have come from? Its way bigger then wall but you would probably have to do the course in a parking lot. they have a track but I have no idea what is going on with it right now. Plus you do the Wall event so I guess that is a conflict?

And to the Pro Am guys, why wasnt DG trials and Club Loose involved with the east coast part of the Pro Am thing? Or were they and they didnt want to participate?

[Slapshotnerd]

All I can say is this, it's going to take someone with a good relationship with the tracks or at least a good business plan and some money to make some of the tracks let us drift. It's going to happen. It already is. I don't know how it will turn out and I can't vouch for that. All I can do it hope that it turns out good...just like everyone else that is for it overhere. I'm a no one as far as any of that goes. I'm just trying to be an ambassador for the poeple that I know deserve to drive on a pro level. If Formula D wants to step in and do it...by all means, I'm there.

Have you talked to Formula D and asked for their assistance? Something tells me that if you asked, they'd be more than willing to help you. They have done a lot of market research and HAVE convinced facilities like Evergreen Raceway / Soldier Field / Wall Speedway/ the City of Long Beach to hold drifting events, and believe me, this was an uphill battle. But they've fought these battles and won. They can only help when help is asked for. Try giving them a call and asking for their assistance.

On another note. I have some questions. Why were certain drivers given provisionals? Why were we not? Why was Andy Sapp not?

My understanding is that andy sapp was given a provisional based on his skill and dedication which was shown through Formula D last year, when he attended a large number of events (i believe he hit 5 / 6? not sure if he hit Houston or NJ, i think he made Houston but not NJ). I think he made top 32 a few different times... again, not 100% sure, but that's my guess. Have you guys made top 32 / attended FD events outside of Atlanta? (i'm asking, i honestly don't know). This year was the first year for provisionals, and I know that ALL provisionals were reviewed on a case-by-case basis. Next year, there will be no provisionals from what I understand, you MUST get it through a pro-am event.

We also have more spectator attendance than any other organization in the country besides FD. We had 2500 paying spectators at our very first event! Now that I think of it, we also have recieved the most coverage mag wise. We were featured in Import Performance (new name for Import Racer) Magazine in the March 2006 issue. We also had a 5 page feature in drifting mag in the August 2006 issue. What more could you ask for?

I think that this can be attributed to the former owner of Drift Fury (the one you purchased the series from) who worked with these magazines, and has for the past 2 years. I know that there was an event thrown in Seattle last year at evergreen raceway that didn't even have an amateur competition (it was just a practice day) and had something around 4-5k spectators. This was prior to Formula D attending the area. Don't be so quick to brag...



.... and that catches me up. Tracy - a lot of your 'issues' can be resolved by contacting formula D.

I have your number, i'm going to give you a call tomorrow, and help you out with some of this. Let's make everyone happy and let's help the sport

[Slapshotnerd]

OldBridge Raceway in NJ where most of the DA guys plus me and my team mates and a lot of good east coast drifters have come from? Its way bigger then wall but you would probably have to do the course in a parking lot. they have a track but I have no idea what is going on with it right now. Plus you do the Wall event so I guess that is a conflict?

And to the Pro Am guys, why wasnt DG trials and Club Loose involved with the east coast part of the Pro Am thing? Or were they and they didnt want to participate?

I don't think a club in the parking lot will work. Formula D needs room for a full competition, pit room for 40-50 drivers, and parking and accomodations for at least 8k people. This is why jim called it "The FD circus". FD has almost grown out of the Soldier Field lot, which is the last remaining parking lot left, and i'd say that they've almost grown out of Wall as well. Hopefully, more facilities can be found.

But again, if you truely know about a facility, then call FD and help them out! They're open to these suggestions!

[Octagon]

Well, Slapshot, Jim's going to have his ear chewed on by me for a while (he'd already asked me to hold off a bit on talking to him over the MSA/FD co-promotion deal to give him time to work out the China demo and the season finale) but I'd be glad to set him on the way to talking with Mize and Dzurilla.

Next season is going to be a huge expansion one at Mansfield. The IHRA World Nationals are coming to the facility, and they're building the dragstrip and facilities in the off-season! They've just announced the cessation of weekly racing on Mansfield's oval and have gone to a special-event only format, meaning a ton of dates on their calendar (aside from ISMA Supermodifieds, NASCAR Craftsman Trucks, USAR Hooters Pro Cup, ASA, HOSS and AVSS outlaw sprints, and other such touring series) are open.

Strike while the iron's hot, I say. Though questions about sanctioning fee and purse size and structure already enter my mind. Any info on that sort of thing would be helpful to take to Mize (the promoter) and Dzurilla (the owner).

[Slapshotnerd]

Well, Slapshot, Jim's going to have his ear chewed on by me for a while (he'd already asked me to hold off a bit on talking to him over the MSA/FD co-promotion deal to give him time to work out the China demo and the season finale) but I'd be glad to set him on the way to talking with Mize and Dzurilla.

Next season is going to be a huge expansion one at Mansfield. The IHRA World Nationals are coming to the facility, and they're building the dragstrip and facilities in the off-season! They've just announced the cessation of weekly racing on Mansfield's oval and have gone to a special-event only format, meaning a ton of dates on their calendar (aside from ISMA Supermodifieds, NASCAR Craftsman Trucks, USAR Hooters Pro Cup, ASA, HOSS and AVSS outlaw sprints, and other such touring series) are open.

Strike while the iron's hot, I say. Though questions about sanctioning fee and purse size and structure already enter my mind. Any info on that sort of thing would be helpful to take to Mize (the promoter) and Dzurilla (the owner).

they still have SEMA preps to make, so be respectful of that. And there are other staff in teh office who can probably help you with that. I know Andy has been involved with track selection in the past, he might be a good person to talk to as well.

[Amanda]

FYI The China demo was not organized by Formula D.

[akuma S14]

FYI The China demo was not organized by Formula D.

true that.
Now give Hideo his thread back!

[Tracy]

Have you talked to Formula D and asked for their assistance? Something tells me that if you asked, they'd be more than willing to help you. They have done a lot of market research and HAVE convinced facilities like Evergreen Raceway / Soldier Field / Wall Speedway/ the City of Long Beach to hold drifting events, and believe me, this was an uphill battle. But they've fought these battles and won. They can only help when help is asked for. Try giving them a call and asking for their assistance.


My understanding is that andy sapp was given a provisional based on his skill and dedication which was shown through Formula D last year, when he attended a large number of events (i believe he hit 5 / 6? not sure if he hit Houston or NJ, i think he made Houston but not NJ). I think he made top 32 a few different times... again, not 100% sure, but that's my guess. Have you guys made top 32 / attended FD events outside of Atlanta? (i'm asking, i honestly don't know). This year was the first year for provisionals, and I know that ALL provisionals were reviewed on a case-by-case basis. Next year, there will be no provisionals from what I understand, you MUST get it through a pro-am event.


I think that this can be attributed to the former owner of Drift Fury (the one you purchased the series from) who worked with these magazines, and has for the past 2 years. I know that there was an event thrown in Seattle last year at evergreen raceway that didn't even have an amateur competition (it was just a practice day) and had something around 4-5k spectators. This was prior to Formula D attending the area. Don't be so quick to brag...



.... and that catches me up. Tracy - a lot of your 'issues' can be resolved by contacting formula D.

I have your number, i'm going to give you a call tomorrow, and help you out with some of this. Let's make everyone happy and let's help the sport

I always owned the series. It was my idea and my man's money from the beginning. The person that you speak of is no longer with us. He was a 23% partner and Dan and I now own it 100% again. I have come to find out that he told some people otherwise. Either way, I spoke with Naoki myself regarding this matter in Houston and he knew I was the majority owner. I had beenspeaking with Naoki about throwing events in Atlanta for several years before Drift Fury ever happened.

Was the event that had 4-5k people a drift only event? or was there other racing going on? It was my understanding that the other events with a high turnout were not drift only events. If not then I apologize. I had done lots of research before making these claims. I guess I missed it.

andy sapp was not given a provisional for the entire season. He was allowed to drive in Atlanta and at the next one he didn't reg in time because he didn't know he had to or something of that nature.

I have spoken with FD in the past and personally I don't find them to be very nice or approachable. In fact, I was treated quite rudely by one of them at an event for a minor problem that I brought up with them onthe phone weeks before the event. I don't care to get into it too much because I am over it. Like I have said in the new thread, you have NEVER heard me bashing FD or the proam. It has come to a head obviously and I am adressing some concerns.

Please do call. I would love to speak with you. I'm not a very good typer

[Tracy]

[QUOTE=Slapshotnerd;193640]Top fuel teams have a per-race budget that sport compact teams have for an entire year. They also have a lot more TV time (live TV, at that) and about 10-20x as many fans. Formula D / drifting and sport compact racing are similar demographics (younger GenX / GenY fans, etc) and have been around for similar periods of time (drifting for the past 5 years, sport compact / import drag racing for around 10 years, NHRA has been around for 50 years.) Most NHRA fans are 2nd or 3rd generation NHRA fans and 'grew up' around it. That's not possible yet for import drag racing / drifting fans.



That's something I believe you should have negotiated differently in your contract then. I have knowledge of drivers getting paid for certain demos (won't get more specific, but i know it has happened for multiple different drivers at multiple different events) because organizers A) know that drifting has more pull than some of their other 'lifestyle' events, B) know that 'employees' at events should get paid - if you're not competing in a competition, then you were hired specifically to do a job (in this case, drifting) and should be compensated appropriately. If you spend X hours at an event hired by the promotor for Y purpose, then you need to be given Z dollars.



I just want to take pictures and write articles for magazines. But my skill can't be achieved by the average person off the street - i have a lot of time invested in perfecting my skills, and I have a lot of money invested in my equipment. Therefore, when I write or shoot photos, I ask for compensation. There are certain times when a 'trade out' might be appropriate, but those are the exception, not the rule.



There was another series which was 'attempted' which was started 'by a driver, for the drivers'. it was called World Drifting Championships. They had a large corporate backing as well (Primedia, several other sponsors). They failed, for more reasons than once, but saying you're 'for the drivers' isn't much. Jim and Ryan have made Formula D very much about the drivers. More than D1 has been about the drivers (D1 is about selling the DVD's, there's no denying that). So you still haven't given me a reason to support another series.



I think i have a solution for you, i started a new thread. What if Chicago / Atlanta / NJ had a 'semi pro' level which had a regional championship? you still drive in front of the same FD crowd of 8k or so per event, you are just in a seperate 'division' from Rhys / Sam. Would that work for you? That way, the same promotional dollars can go towards one event instead of 2. You get the same if not more exposure as if there were 2 completely seperate drifting 'circuits'. Just a thought...

[quote]I want myself and others like me to be able to enjoy and progress in drifting. I don't think that's too much to ask.

I think that the east coast has just as many if not more events for the amateur up-and-coming drifter to be able to progress and even compete in tandem than the west coast does. Outside of California, there isn't much available, especially for tandem. The east coast has more access to events than they realize.



The difference is that Atlanta is much smaller than many other cities. I think atlanta has as many if not more local competitions than LA does. Just drift has been having more competitions lately, but the schedule in atlanta was just as rigorous as the greater LA area, and that's a HUGE accomplishment. But the same can't be said about other areas around the US - Chicago, Seattle, Texas, FL, St Louis, etc. You've been to these cities, you know that there are FAR fewer competitions in these areas than there are in Atlanta. There IS opportunity for events in these smaller markets, but they should be focused on attracting 20-30 drivers and helping them develop their skills, not getting 50 'pro' drivers and 5,000 spectators there to have a series to rival Formula D. There's a huge difference in marketing in these 2 approaches, and IF NOPI or any other event promotor does decide to grow a second series, I think it should marketed on this level, not as a rival to FD.



Not in this market. Nascar has 200k fans per race and millions of fans per TV airing (which is 3 hours long). FD has less than 10% of that in attendance and per TV airing. Therefore, less impressions, less return on investment, etc. Let's face it - Tide / Frosted Flakes / Viagra aren't sponsoring drifting, and those sponsors aren't coming anytime soon because the exposure just isn't there. Therefore, the market must grow slowly, as the sponsors do. I would venture to say that the budget of 1 nascar team could fund the top 10 drifting teams for the entire season, possibly even the top 20 or 25 teams (including building the cars from scratch). Apples to oranges.



*these are my thoughts through page 3. I'm going to work on page 4 and 5 later tonight I have a feeling that many of these thoughts have been echoed already*

I know plenty of people who get paid for demos also. It was a good opportunity for us that came unexpectedly. I am not complaing about the money we spent, it was well worth it. I just wanted to clear up the misconception.