FORMULA D Rule Changes...

[courantcom]

I understand what you are saying. I remeber. I don't want to come to offend anyone. I'm just basing my opinion on my experiences. Me of all people have had several confrontations with drag organizations. Most of the drag organizations I've dealt with never listen. It is their way or the highway. They are like the government. Nothing you can do. I bitched and moaned back in the day non-stop of how unfair it was that the competition had millions of dollars backing them. It was totally unfair. GM/Rousch Racing had all kinds of resources that we had no access to or the money to do them. NHRA let them run-amuck in PROFWD as well as Hot Rod. I realized in late 2004 I was going to get nowhere with NHRA so we just shut-up and raced. We tried our damdest and never gave-up with the rules they gave us. It seeemed sooooo impossible to do but we never gave up. The result despite the strength of the competition was back to back NHRA Championships in 2005 and 2006. Look who we were up against: Factory backed GM and Roush cars. Not just one but several of them. We just stopped bitching and just raced.

Not to draw a similarity here, but manufacturers are also here in drifting. Maybe they're not as "involved" as they were in drag racing back in the day with their full factory teams and support, but rest assured I know they're watching.

That is my experience the past 13 years. Obviously everyone knows that drag racing is mostly about the racecar and its engineering to win. The engine is the heart of the whole situation. The drivers skill is not as crucial to winning as compared to drifting.

In comparison, the vehicle plays a small role to winning in Drifting. The Driver is what it is all about. I have the utmost respect for all Drift drivers. There is so much skill involved to piloting those vehicles. When I saw video of my boy MIki piloting our FD, it looked like he was playing the piano. His hands were allover the place in the car. Almost as if he was conducting a symphony. I was truly amazed. All of you Drift drivers are like musicians, creating music on the track. Some sound like Beethoven on the track, some sound like Chopsticks on the Piano. Nevertheless it takes skill to play the Piano. You guys are the sh*t.

With those ideas described above, the obvious conclusion is that the driver plays the major role in drifting...............not the car. Why not make the changes necessary and prove FD and all the teams that you guys can win because your driver has the skill to play Mozart on the track.

As easy as it may "sound", it's gonna take some time to do it. I've already mentioned somewhere in this post that it'll take like 4 days or so, but that's 4 straight days. Not only that, but I'm sure the people would have to fly over from Japan to do it just because they would just want to do it themselves. SA Drift team plan for their trips from Japan to the states well in advance to take advantage of cheaper plane tickets and what not. Plans to come for Round 4 have been in place since Round 2. For them to suddenly have to change plans will totally increase the costs of flying over that much earlier. Again, easier said that done. I'm sure that they're already planned of when to go back home to Japan, and then fly out again for Round 5. Racing around at local events, or having the luxury of seeing their race car on a daily basis won't ever happen for these guys while they live in Japan, and their car is here with me.

Roo posted pictures of what the car looked like when it was a bare chassis. In order to get the car ready for this kind of a modification, everything on the front of the car would have to be stripped out. It sounds easy to most, but to you and I, we both know that's not a simple task. On top of all that, there's always a chance something will go wrong in the process. Right now, the car is good. It's straight enough, and it works. Obviously the easier thing to do is just to leave it alone.

Your driver is a good driver. I know he probably got the brawn and brains probably to drive a Volkwagen bug and still place Top 16. After all my years racing in different organizations they will not take any bitching and moaning from any of us race teams. I have only succeeded once in doing that. Don't get me wrong when something is wrong I get pretty irate too and like to stand by my convictions but.............it has never made a difference. I've learned just to make do and never giveup in regards to rules and regulations. Drifting has got it good....................its all about the driver making beautiful music not the car.

Dude...you make it sound like you only succeeded only once. Maybe against NHRA, you did, but you can't just count there. You alone are one of the reasons why this industry has such a following. You've been there since the first Battle, the first Showoff...I mean, come on man. You're honestly right up there along with Eddie at Dynamic, Frank Choi from Battle, Ken Miyoshi from Showoff...right there buddy. Your actions and involvements have been always in the spotlight one way or the other. Your team colors are always going to be your team colors. Not a lot of people know, but I'll tell you that all the right people know.

Try racing against one car with a million plus behind it for one year.....and four other cars with even more millions behind those cars another year.

Thats a pain in the *Censored**Censored**Censored*.

On a side note, one thing to keep in mind. FD is doing a stellar job in growing the sport and taking care of it. They provide a fruitful enviroment for all of us to do what we love and get paid for it or at least break even. The sponsors get a great return on their investment because FD does their job to make sure that everyone in the World sees your car. Bottom of the line, competing in FD is a business. Some of us have sponsors and as team owners we have to show those sponsors a return on their investment. Imagine, if we had all of these sponsors on our cars and there was noone in the stands. (NHRA Sport Comapct Drag Racing) Our sponsors would be very disappointed......if not p*ssed! FD comes up with ideas to make the sport bigger and badder. They pack the stands. They wanna make sure our sponsors on these cars get a return on their investment. Be very happy they are doing there job. NHRA sure did'nt.

Yes...KUDO's to Formula Drift...by all means. I've been posting suggestions on here that seem to still go unnoticed. In some way or another, each one of us in this thread have posted something to IMPROVE upon their system that they have in place now. Some rules need to be more CLARIFIED. Something needs to be done so that something like this NEVER can happen again. Is that so wrong to ask for? Is that so wrong to lobby for? Is that so wrong to stand up for... No. Instead of my suggestions being read and understood, people keep thinking that all I want is for Formula D to bend over backwards and take it in the rear. Absolutely not. Formula D needs to quit with the defense and start paying attention.

This thread shows that people are paying attention.

Just my measily .02 cents. Just trying to help out. Please excuse me if I am too straightforward.

Your .02 cents are worth than what you think because of who you are, and how you have helped make this industry flourish.

[bergenholtz]

Remember one year, when there was an NHRA race out here in Pomona? Instead of staying home to race, we went out to Moroso, FL to race NIRA? Think back a little...I'm sure you remember. I raced with Turbo Joe Morgan then with a RWD Ford Focus Wagon. When we finally got out to Moroso, it was starting to rain when we were supposed to race. It was just barely starting to rain...like drizzle rain/stop.

We were in the paddock when we "heard" that they were just going to cancel the race and just make something else a double points race. I mean...what? We just drove out from the west coast to come to a race that's about to be canceled because of a little drizzle? Oh hell no, right? We just dropped like $1500 in fuel to get our own rig out there, let alone yours, and what everyone else spent to get there from the west coast.

What did we do? Dude, you were one of the people that rallied all the drivers together in the paddock so we could talk to the sanctioning body. We talked to them as a whole and said that this was all a bunch of bs. We stated our case, and they complied. What happened....we stayed until Monday to run the race when the skies were clear.

Granted, there were less spectators, hardly any vendor booths, etc, but we ran the race. Do you remember the basis of our argument? That's where we concluded that you can still run a race without spectators...without sponsors being there, without vendor booths, etc. You can NOT run a race without racers. We didn't let the sanctioning body dictate what they wanted for us to do...which was just plain and simple, pack up and go home. If we did what they wanted for us to do, we would have just had a bunch of fun spending $3000 in fuel, and losing two week's worth of time to just go home because of a little rain. Sorry fellas, no race this weekend - but thanks for coming out! It's gonna rain.

Since then, drag racing sanctioning bodies changed their rain out rules. They stay until the rain goes away and they run the race then...Monday, Tuesday...Wednesday, whatever day.

That was you back then, and now I see you just suggesting that SA Drift just go and take the "plain and simple" solution... When you start remembering this situation, remember -- RWD Ford Focus Wagon. Yeah...trust me, I was a rule junkie back then too. ;-)

There is some control of how the race is to be run and I agree with you we as racers can make some difference. Regarding rules is another story.

I understand what you are saying. I remeber. I don't want to come to offend anyone. I'm just basing my opinion on my experiences. Me of all people have had several confrontations with drag organizations. Most of the drag organizations I've dealt with never listen. It is their way or the highway. They are like the government. Nothing you can do. I bitched and moaned back in the day non-stop of how unfair it was that the competition had millions of dollars backing them. It was totally unfair. GM/Rousch Racing had all kinds of resources that we had no access to or the money to do them. NHRA let them run-amuck in PROFWD as well as Hot Rod. I realized in late 2004 I was going to get nowhere with NHRA so we just shut-up and raced. We tried our damdest and never gave-up with the rules they gave us. It seeemed sooooo impossible to do but we never gave up. The result despite the strength of the competition was back to back NHRA Championships in 2005 and 2006. Look who we were up against: Factory backed GM and Roush cars. Not just one but several of them. We just stopped bitching and just raced.

That is my experience the past 13 years. Obviously everyone knows that drag racing is mostly about the racecar and its engineering to win. The engine is the heart of the whole situation. The drivers skill is not as crucial to winning as compared to drifting.

In comparison, the vehicle plays a small role to winning in Drifting. The Driver is what it is all about. I have the utmost respect for all Drift drivers. There is so much skill involved to piloting those vehicles. When I saw video of my boy MIki piloting our FD, it looked like he was playing the piano. His hands were allover the place in the car. Almost as if he was conducting a symphony. I was truly amazed. All of you Drift drivers are like musicians, creating music on the track. Some sound like Beethoven on the track, some sound like Chopsticks on the Piano. Nevertheless it takes skill to play the Piano. You guys are the sh*t.

With those ideas described above, the obvious conclusion is that the driver plays the major role in drifting...............not the car. Why not make the changes necessary and prove FD and all the teams that you guys can win because your driver has the skill to play Mozart on the track. Your driver is a good driver. I know he probably got the brawn and brains probably to drive a Volkwagen bug and still place Top 16. After all my years racing in different organizations they will not take any bitching and moaning from any of us race teams. I have only succeeded once in doing that. Don't get me wrong when something is wrong I get pretty irate too and like to stand by my convictions but.............it has never made a difference. I've learned just to make do and never giveup in regards to rules and regulations. Drifting has got it good....................its all about the driver making beautiful music not the car.

Try racing against one car with a million plus behind it for one year.....and
four other cars with even more millions behind those cars another year.

Thats a pain in the *Censored**Censored**Censored*.

On a side note, one thing to keep in mind. FD is doing a stellar job in growing the sport and taking care of it. They provide a fruitful enviroment for all of us to do what we love and get paid for it or at least break even. The sponsors get a great return on their investment because FD does their job to make sure that everyone in the World sees your car. Bottom of the line, competing in FD is a business. Some of us have sponsors and as team owners we have to show those sponsors a return on their investment. Imagine, if we had all of these sponsors on our cars and there was noone in the stands. (NHRA Sport Comapct Drag Racing) Our sponsors would be very disappointed......if not p*ssed! FD comes up with ideas to make the sport bigger and badder. They pack the stands. They wanna make sure our sponsors on these cars get a return on their investment. Be very happy they are doing there job. NHRA sure did'nt.

Just my measily .02 cents. Just trying to help out. Please excuse me if I am too straightforward.

[courantcom]

Bottom line there is a problem according to FD, if they want it changed, then it needs to be changed or suffer the consequences. Both Bergenholtz and Peak does not benefit to see such a badass car run in our series. This is not for self benefit, both Bergenholtz racing and Peak do not receive any benefits to see Team SA run. For all I care, don't fix and quit the series. My team needs all the help it can get.


See you in Las Vegas, its going to be HOT!

Eddie Kim

I believe...that your statement right here is one that other competitors aside from yourself also believe in, but you just openly said it right here, right now.

Are you now admitting that the SA Drift effort is a threat.

The easy way out for a lot of other competitors is just to go and try to single out the SA Drift car and get it banned, right? ...you know, like go up to FD officials in Long Beach at Round 1 and make a lot of quiet noise with FD and see if a squeeze play tactic will work.

I've mentioned this before, but if the SA Drift car had only like 50 points, nobody would even care about anything that's on the car, because nobody with a loud enough voice will think it's a threat being that low in points. But no...it's top 10 in points, and everyone up there are friends with one another, and everyone up there has a louder voice. I think you called that "drift horsepower".

Dude...wanna play it cool? You think everyone wants to play it cool? Let's get all the racers together and petition to let the SA Drift car run as is. Let's all call up FD and just be like, "You know what...we're not scared of that car. Let's just drop this entire thing, and let the blue one go..."

This is like voting for a president, and everyone gets one vote. Everyone is just gonna vote for themselves, and wonder how nobody could be selected.

Some racers already beat Takatori in past events. Again, it's not like this blue car is dominating anything. It qualifies like everyone else, and it wins and loses just like everyone else too.

Again...my words are here NOT to make Formula D bend their rules to allow SA Drift to compete with no restrictions. I'm merely pointing out something that I found interesting in what you have said. With how people are starting to view my posts, I feel that I must now include a disclaimer at the bottom of each one.

[sa-drift.com]

You state "Guys are kinda sounding like babies.... "obey the rules, dont like the rules leave". " - Well Cam, who sounds like babies, the guys saying there are rules and we need to abide by them or guys asking for rules to be changed because their team mechanics cannot properly understand english and created a car that is not legal in our series according to the Chief Steward?

Eddie, my mechanic is Japanese....he lives in Japan. "cannot properly understand english" Seriously...you're sitting here ragging on this guy about using ignorant words and downing my Japanese mechanic for not speaking English in the same post? I don't even need to comment on that...it speaks for itself.

Besides, that's not the problem...do I have to repeat myself, Victor and everyone else that is echoing the same thing? It seems like you are the one who "cannot properly understand english." We're not asking for any special treatement here. Formula D has suddenly decided to enforce a rule on us that hasn't been enforced in the same way on other vehicles. How many times do we need to repeat it? If there is gonna be a level playing field, either all cars are allowed to make similar modifications or they're not. Simple as that....but you can't have it BOTH WAYS...which is what the situation is at the moment.

[PeakPerformance]

Damn...

Just lost respect for bergenholtz and peak performance in a matter of 24 hours.

I can see bergenholtz... they are fairly new to this.... but peak.

Guys are kinda sounding like babies.... "obey the rules, dont like the rules leave". SA are the grand daddies of this crap, been doing this long before it was cool, long before this was stupid business.

Cameron,

So why have you lost respect for Peak Perfomrnace, is it because I am keeping you accountable of your statement stating that the Nig**azzz at Peak are pissEDD, is that why? I had no idea this was going on til Monday night when other FD teams called and wondered why I was so upset. I honestly had no idea that this stuff was going on until you brought my name into all this. I had no choice but to post and let everyone know that I am not upset and I am sure that FD will do their best to keep this situation as fair as possible. Like I said, we have been involved with drift for quite some time and have felt that Formula D has been pretty good about being fair with everyone that competes.

Have you lost respect for my company because we called you out and asked to modify your post associating our company with the N word? I know that you are an African American and still a teeneager. But I don't think referring to anyone using the N word is appropriate nor does our company endorse that type of verbage. I am not asking you to like Peak Performance or endorse my product, but randomly just saying you lost respect for my company without explanation or reason makes no sense. I know that I started my company when you were 2 and we started drifting when you were probably 14 or 13. I know it is easy to talk sh*t about me or Bergenholtz racing sitting behind your computer, but just be aware that both of us have been doing this for a long time. Bergenholtz has been modifying cars for probably 16 years and been drag racing professionally for a long time, they understand the racer and the organizers. Have some respect for the old timers, we are the grand daddies here in America.

I understand that you want to be involved in all these threads to keep your post count high, but don't bring my company up unless you know directly that we are upset. Your statement of us being upset regarding Team SA is completely false! I politely asked you to modify your statement and yet you continue to bring up my company. I hope the drifting.com community understands that blaze1 is the rantings of a 18 year old in Moreno Valley that just graduated high school that is constantly posting nonsense to keep his post count high.

You state "Guys are kinda sounding like babies.... "obey the rules, dont like the rules leave". " - Well Cam, who sounds like babies, the guys saying there are rules and we need to abide by them or guys asking for rules to be changed because their team mechanics cannot properly understand english and created a car that is not legal in our series according to the Chief Steward? I am not trying to fuel the fire in regards to this whole Team SA issue, I just want these guys to try to find a solution so they can race. I feel that alot of people are just here fanning the fire and posting nonsense.

Bottom line there is a problem according to FD, if they want it changed, then it needs to be changed or suffer the consequences. Both Bergenholtz and Peak does not benefit to see such a badass car run in our series. This is not for self benefit, both Bergenholtz racing and Peak do not receive any benefits to see Team SA run. For all I care, don't fix and quit the series. My team needs all the help it can get.


See you in Las Vegas, its going to be HOT!

Eddie Kim

SA is trying to say that these cars are THE SAME, and therefore different suspension types can and should be interchangeable between the 2.

C34



R34










YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH

you dont know what you are talking about and obviosly did not read the post fully. he said same CHASSIS, there's quite a difference there.

[sa-drift.com]

Like I said before... and nobody replied to... Would you guys feel the same if I took away my semi trailing rear suspension from my RX7 and replaced it with a multilink from an RX8? I mean... its an evolution of the RX cars and it would be all OEM Mazda, so it would be cool, right?

It's not the same chassis but if you want to go that route, the R31 Skyline is also strut so...your point?

BTW, saying you gave the rule book to a J dude and he didn't understand it the way it was intended is just like all the stuff you've been saying the whole time. How R34s are THE SAME as C34s. How this isn't any better than that. etc etc.


Hey, if I feel like competing in the Italian drift series, but i can only speak French... it's not a valid excuse for why I broke the rules.

You're going back in time again....Japanese rulebook is even less clear than the English one. Fine us for not seeking preapproval from the start, ok, we get it. That has nothing to do with why it shouldn't be now approved and legal for the series.

SA is trying to say that these cars are THE SAME, and therefore different suspension types can and should be interchangeable between the 2.YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH

I'm not trying to say, I AM SAYING the cars are the same chassis. The whole setup is interchangable, in fact, they were made like that from NISSAN because it's the same chassis.

R34


W34

Yeeeeeah....totally different.....not even close



Maybe we should be running a Stagea instead? Same chassis, same engine, same front strut suspension, same rear suspension....wait, that's exactly what we're running now? So if we call it a Stagea is it cool?





/funny side note, I ran into the owner of Dear Motorsports...the owner of the above truck yesterday in Yokohama...

[Bebop]

Its certainly not downgrading when you are talking about the ability to get more unimpeded angle. For real driving, yes, a downgrade. For drifting though, a huge benefit.

Like I said before... and nobody replied to... Would you guys feel the same if I took away my semi trailing rear suspension from my RX7 and replaced it with a multilink from an RX8? I mean... its an evolution of the RX cars and it would be all OEM Mazda, so it would be cool, right?

Yea, its certainly not a downgrade for drifting. But isn't that the beauty of this sport, isn't it so cool a big car like chaser or a aristo is so not practical for real driving but they are such a good set up for drifting.

I'm, pretty sure running the R34 against the Laurel was a marketing decision rather then performance decision.

And go ahead and run your multi link from your RX8. Its no big deal, want to pull a D mac and run S13 rear end... be my damn guest. Its not custom, anyone with access to a wreaking yard can pull it off. Go for it bud.

But then again, after thinking about it. Wouldn't a RX8 rear end be a pain in the bun for drifting (thinking from a FC standpoint). Kinda like the front end on a miata, camber adjust effects the toe and caster and vice versa.

[courantcom]

I stopped replying to this thread a while ago cause its just beating a dead horse with the same people over and over. But hey, that's what an argument is.


I like the funny post where its revealed that I'm "getting owned". Haha. This sh*t is a big mess, and I don't envy SA or FD in trying to deal with this.



BTW, saying you gave the rule book to a J dude and he didn't understand it the way it was intended is just like all the stuff you've been saying the whole time. How R34s are THE SAME as C34s. How this isn't any better than that. etc etc.


Hey, if I feel like competing in the Italian drift series, but i can only speak French... it's not a valid excuse for why I broke the rules.



SA is trying to say that these cars are THE SAME, and therefore different suspension types can and should be interchangeable between the 2.

C34



R34










YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH

Yeah man...what's wrong with you dude. ;-) I see wheels, mirrors, headlights, windows... both cars are also blue! ...kinda. I hope nobody reads THIS post and starts thinking I'm bashing. OMG, do you think I bash to just bash?

[_PG_]

Damn...

Just lost respect for bergenholtz and peak performance in a matter of 24 hours.

I can see bergenholtz... they are fairly new to this.... but peak.

Guys are kinda sounding like babies.... "obey the rules, dont like the rules leave". SA are the grand daddies of this crap, been doing this long before it was cool, long before this was stupid business.

Its not like SA has a issue with the judging, or the formant, or the 5 minute rule, or anything else thats just a part of the rules of drifting. But they are complaining about using a setup.

SA did not make a custom rack

they didnt make a tube frame

they didnt make a civic to RWD with the ability to link any course at 100mph at 90 degrees of angle with computer assisted drifting, driven by a reject NASA test monkey

What they did do was convert the suspension from a lesser model of the same chassis.

From Christ sake they DOWNGRADED!!!

Since when can you penalized for downgrading your car?

This is ridiculous... teams complaining, step your game up. Don't hate , appreciate and maybe take notes on how to downgrade a car to make it perform better.

And for one more time.... I'm not a team owner, or a driver, or a insider. I'm a fan/consumer, and honestly I just dont care was SA runs as long as its OEM based and doesent fly off and impale my face.

FD.... for the love of the sport, drop it. Your like a bully beating someones *Censored**Censored**Censored* over stepping on your fresh nikes. Get over it.

Its certainly not downgrading when you are talking about the ability to get more unimpeded angle. For real driving, yes, a downgrade. For drifting though, a huge benefit.

Like I said before... and nobody replied to... Would you guys feel the same if I took away my semi trailing rear suspension from my RX7 and replaced it with a multilink from an RX8? I mean... its an evolution of the RX cars and it would be all OEM Mazda, so it would be cool, right?

[_PG_]

I stopped replying to this thread a while ago cause its just beating a dead horse with the same people over and over. But hey, that's what an argument is.


I like the funny post where its revealed that I'm "getting owned". Haha. This sh*t is a big mess, and I don't envy SA or FD in trying to deal with this.



BTW, saying you gave the rule book to a J dude and he didn't understand it the way it was intended is just like all the stuff you've been saying the whole time. How R34s are THE SAME as C34s. How this isn't any better than that. etc etc.


Hey, if I feel like competing in the Italian drift series, but i can only speak French... it's not a valid excuse for why I broke the rules.



SA is trying to say that these cars are THE SAME, and therefore different suspension types can and should be interchangeable between the 2.

C34



R34










YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH

[Bebop]

Damn...

Just lost respect for bergenholtz and peak performance in a matter of 24 hours.

I can see bergenholtz... they are fairly new to this.... but peak.

Guys are kinda sounding like babies.... "obey the rules, dont like the rules leave". SA are the grand daddies of this crap, been doing this long before it was cool, long before this was stupid business.

Its not like SA has a issue with the judging, or the formant, or the 5 minute rule, or anything else thats just a part of the rules of drifting. But they are complaining about using a setup.

SA did not make a custom rack

they didnt make a tube frame

they didnt make a civic to RWD with the ability to link any course at 100mph at 90 degrees of angle with computer assisted drifting, driven by a reject NASA test monkey

What they did do was convert the suspension from a lesser model of the same chassis.

From Christ sake they DOWNGRADED!!!

Since when can you penalized for downgrading your car?

This is ridiculous... teams complaining, step your game up. Don't hate , appreciate and maybe take notes on how to downgrade a car to make it perform better.

And for one more time.... I'm not a team owner, or a driver, or a insider. I'm a fan/consumer, and honestly I just dont care was SA runs as long as its OEM based and doesent fly off and impale my face.

FD.... for the love of the sport, drop it. Your like a bully beating someones *Censored**Censored**Censored* over stepping on your fresh nikes. Get over it.

BTW... i think its time for formula D drivers to start a drivers union ASAP

[courantcom]

Happy 4th of July everyone! Some beer is now cheaper than gas, so I guess that means that you should just find a local spot, and drink instead. ;-)

[courantcom]

Dear Drifting Enthusiasts,

What I am about to post is going to piss a lot of people off, but I need to get this off of my chest. I've been following this thread religiously for the past few days, and I feel that it's time to put my $0.02 in. And when I said it's going to piss a lot of people off, I actually meant that it's only going to piss a few of you off. Good.

So here goes; read this once, read it twice; do whatever it takes to get through your thick skulls, because it seems to be that whatever anyone posts, nobody is clear about it.



The reason that Team SA-Drift and friends is pissed off is quite obvious. We all sympathize with situations where we feel that the "little man" is being singled out. After careful deliberation of the "facts" posted here from both parties, I've come to the following conclusion of my own:

The reason that Team SA-Drift is so upset is because in order to revert the R34 front suspension back to factory standards, they would need to replace the strut towers in their entirety, as they did initially to accomodate the [C]34/[W]34 suspension components.

As you can see in the following quoted post by sa-drift.com, he stated that the "34" chassis comes with both setups from the factory. You, sir, are not lying there. The C34 and/or W34 chassis' do come with the suspension components that you specified.



However, the R34 suspension, which is the issue at hand and being addressed as the major source of dilemma in this situation, was only available as a "double" wishbone setup with two holes on the strut tower to accommodate it.

I've seen many Skylines in my day, and I will say this, as well: If you were to put SA's R34 nose-to-nose with a factory, no, MANY factory R34's, you will easily win the game of "what doesn't belong". The parts are NOT easily interchangeable, and I believe this is why there is so much resistance coming from SA Drift's camp. This would take a lot of money, a lot of cutting, a lot of welding, a lot of painting, etc. to reverse the modification. If it was so stock/factory OE, as Roo states, why would you risk being fined and losing points over such a simple fix? Hmm. Why not just change it back?

Well, I'll tell you why. It's so much easier to sit here on the forums and defend a car that isn't physically available, nor are there pictures for everyone to see and judge for themselves. It's easier to step up and blame FD, the "bigger man", for singling out the "little man". It's easier to point fingers at other teams and make comparisons, but it has already been confirmed by multiple parties that as a growing series and company, FD has allowed this pre-approval on these vehicles.

So why didn't SA Drift just get this preapproval? Why don't they just go back and say "Hey, look at this modification; can we get this approved to run the rest of the series? The modification will push the limits of what's possible with cars and drivers, so why not?"

The answer is simple. Roo stated that the car was available as it is currently built from the factory. False. When confronted about this by multiple posters in this thread, the defense was put up a bit more, and Roo stuck to his guns about his story. So then, it would have been a simple thing to say something along the lines of "I checked with my technician who built the front end, and he stated the 34s come with the suspension at hand, but I did verify that it was only on C34s and W34s. I apologize for the confusion, as it was my misunderstanding, so what is there to do to get approved to run the series?"

Roo, you present yourself with ignorance with this mentality. I thought I could have expected more from you. Guess not.

SA, you've been given this much time to make the modification back, or tried to have it approved. You should have followed the proper procedure, instead of raising all hell on drifting.com. Now read this carefully, as this quote will show that you've been aware of the issue, and have had ample time to try to resolve it.



Nope. SA Drift and friends decided to post irrelevant information to misguide the general population. The change of rules, as the topic states? How did any rules change? The rules were broken in the first place by SA Drift. Which means, rules weren't changed by FD, rules were broken by SA. But why does this "FD changes rules" post surface so recently? Was it because it was just recently announced that SA still haven't seeked FD's approval? Because it was recently announced that qualifying points were to be stripped from Takatori? Because it was recently announced that SA's team was going to be fined? Hmmm. SOOO much easier to try to fight it publicly than to resolve it quietly. Immaturity, if you ask me.

Let's all grow up here, and eat a piece of humble pie. The rate at which things are progressing now is only going to lead to hatred in the industry, which is farking retarded. Man up, shut up, and apologize for breaking the damn rules, and work on trying to find a solution behind closed doors, not publicly on a forum. This is none of the general pop's business, and is only a way to burn the candle from both ends.

And courantcom, why are you so adamant on trying to change the rules anyway? The rules weren't the problem here. In my opinion, you're digging yourself a bigger hole by defending a team that broke the rules in the first place. Don't try to find an excuse to justify yourself in posting this irrelevance, but just shut up and let the parties at hand fix this mess. You claim that you're not a part of SA Drift's team, but you seem to be swinging from their nuts right now. It's not flattering at all. Stop. Stop feeding the flame. In fact, I could recall one incident last season where a team was fined (a much larger sum of money) for "cheating" and "breaking the rules". Within this season, another team was fined the same amount for "cheating" and "breaking the rules". So what makes this a different situation? You don't see them coming on the forums and raising awareness to irrelevant facts... Actually, I meant to say you don't see their RIG DRIVERS coming on the forums and bringing public awareness to their situations. So why are you on here and making a fool out of yourself and SA Drift?

I've been done defending the SA Drift car discussion directly since like page 5 of this thread. Maybe you too just haven't noticed, but all I've been doing as of late is just responding to people that either directly address me, or ask a question that I can answer. I've also cited particular rules within the Formula D rule book and pasted them here in this thread for the purpose of discussion. Anyways, I've started mentioning the use of VTS sheets then (Post #62, and have consistently just talked about rules and how they just need to be changed for the greater good).

The rules may NOT have been a problem with the SA Drift car, but had the rules been written a little differently, or if VTS sheets were being used, this total discussion would have carried a different tone all together. Now what I HAVE been saying is that there's a problem with the rules. I've already posted it in post #157.

In there, I said that someone else has brought up a really good point. Okay, so basically, if the SA car was in fact an S-Chassis car, with an RB swap, and Skyline body parts...IT would be legal according to Formula D rules. OEM Skyline front fenders, OEM hood, bumper, headlights...OEM Skyline tails, trunk, and rear bumper...

8.1.2.1 Cars must maintain the OEM look and feel and be clean, free of damage and presentable for competition.

8.1.2.2 Aftermarket body panels, front and/or rear fascias, side skirts and wings, etc. are permitted; body work that is not designed as O.E.M. or an O.E.M. replacement of the original make and model of the vehicle must be approved by FORMULA DRIFT.

8.2.1.1 Engine and transmission modifications are free.

See what I mean? ...there's a problem with the rulebook.

Now you called me out and just said that I'm a rig driver, and probably perhaps you're suggesting that I recognize my place in all this. Other teams' rig drivers don't care if a car that's in their truck stops racing. I, fortunately, or unfortunately, need the truck to be full with 3 paying customers or else the costs to cover all this traveling will just come up short. I'm certain I mentioned that somewhere as well. If SA Drift suddenly just decides to just NOT race, it will affect me, and two other racers. So you see, I do have a reason as to why I need to somewhat, and I mean SOMEWHAT...defend them. I do what I can to help everyone in the truck save money. I don't stay at hotels, I stay in the truck. I don't rent a car, I bring along a motorcycle. I save money as best I can everywhere I go so that EVERYONE I'm carrying can afford to dedicate themselves to Formula D.

*sigh* so much selective reading goes on in message board threads. I'm not trying to get a sob story out of all this, but sheesh...a bunch of people still honestly think I'm just bashing to bash away. Re-read my posts...read them out loud, and maybe you'll start to already see that I've been done with talking about the SA Drift car since page 5 of this massive 16 page thread.

Oh, and if you're wondering, I have no affiliation with FD; I'm just a long time reader of drifting.com and a lot of my friends in this industry are your friends, too. A LOT. And I'm sick of seeing this immaturity about a sport that I care about so much. I DO believe that FD has a lot of room for improvement, but that's only because it's such a new sport and series in the US, and it's evolving every year. FD can be contributed to this change, so we should give them some credit here; it's gotta be extremely difficult to cater to everyone's needs and desires. But no one has made such a public stink about this as several of you have. It's ridiculous now. And this will be my only post. If you want to address this with me personally, feel free to email me at eficpail@eficpail.com.

But I refuse to play this game with you internet pro's with this back and forth. I've said my piece, and that's all that I needed to say. So with that...

A couple of you are true Efic Pailures. Thank you for making the rest of us look so good.

That is all I have to say about that.

Oh, and too little, too late. Whatever happens with the SA Team is well-deserved, whichever way the wind blows.

Sincerely,

EficPail.com

One more time man, because of a lot of people's ability to practice selective reading. As far as I've been concerned already...I've been done with talking about how the SA Drift car doesn't comply with the rules. I already said that the SA Drift car didn't fit their rules already and have moved on since like page 5. Even before then, all I did was just seek other people's opinions for the sake of a DISCUSSION -- omg, a message/discussion board? What in the world?

...so then the discussion has already moved to the rules and the rules itself. I've started talking about how I think Formula D should be able to avoid all this stuff later. I catch myself repeating myself over and over and over. Other people are starting to repeat it with me.

VTS Sheets.

Ya'll don't think it's a good idea? SCCA World Challenge thinks they're great. I think they're great. I love reading about other cars and seeing what's been done to them through their VTS sheets. It makes me realize that I too, can build this car by following the VTS sheets. If I can build the car, then maybe one day, I can also compete here in the future. Catch my drift?

[courantcom]

Plain and simple just make the changes Formula D wants and go out there and drift. Formula D provides a healthy enviroment for all of us to compete in and grow. We should be very thankful that they are growing the sport of drift by leaps and bounds here in America. If they don't like something within their guidelines just make the change. No excuses. Then go out to the next event and compete. No bithcin and whining. Just race. Prove to everyone involved you guys can still win even with the new guidlines. If you can't compete within FD guidelines then apparently your suspension setup had some type of advantage. Bottom of the line go out there and compete. No excuses.

Drifting is more about the skill of the driver anyway and not the car right????????

"Pull up your skirt,stop whining, and just go drifting."

Remember one year, when there was an NHRA race out here in Pomona? Instead of staying home to race, we went out to Moroso, FL to race NIRA? Think back a little...I'm sure you remember. I raced with Turbo Joe Morgan then with a RWD Ford Focus Wagon. When we finally got out to Moroso, it was starting to rain when we were supposed to race. It was just barely starting to rain...like drizzle rain/stop.

We were in the paddock when we "heard" that they were just going to cancel the race and just make something else a double points race. I mean...what? We just drove out from the west coast to come to a race that's about to be canceled because of a little drizzle? Oh hell no, right? We just dropped like $1500 in fuel to get our own rig out there, let alone yours, and what everyone else spent to get there from the west coast.

What did we do? Dude, you were one of the people that rallied all the drivers together in the paddock so we could talk to the sanctioning body. We talked to them as a whole and said that this was all a bunch of bs. We stated our case, and they complied. What happened....we stayed until Monday to run the race when the skies were clear.

Granted, there were less spectators, hardly any vendor booths, etc, but we ran the race. Do you remember the basis of our argument? That's where we concluded that you can still run a race without spectators...without sponsors being there, without vendor booths, etc. You can NOT run a race without racers. We didn't let the sanctioning body dictate what they wanted for us to do...which was just plain and simple, pack up and go home. If we did what they wanted for us to do, we would have just had a bunch of fun spending $3000 in fuel, and losing two week's worth of time to just go home because of a little rain. Sorry fellas, no race this weekend - but thanks for coming out! It's gonna rain.

Since then, drag racing sanctioning bodies changed their rain out rules. They stay until the rain goes away and they run the race then...Monday, Tuesday...Wednesday, whatever day.

That was you back then, and now I see you just suggesting that SA Drift just go and take the "plain and simple" solution... When you start remembering this situation, remember -- RWD Ford Focus Wagon. Yeah...trust me, I was a rule junkie back then too. ;-)