FORMULA D Rule Changes...

[courantcom]

I will make this short and sweet. Adding more to this thread is only hurting the sport, and all involved.

This is NOT a "pick on" the Skyline because its top 10 in points. Why would Formula D single out Takatori? because its a Skyline? Okubo last year was not singled out.

Maybe because Okubo wasn't a threat? Enlighten us all and tell us how many events he did last year, and how many points. I'll answer the points one. He got 56 points last year. That's 26th place. Takatori is currently 6th (after penalties). Takatori is scheduled to do each and every one this year. Need I say more about this?

This is a prime example of following Protocol. IF SA drift went through the right channels and got PRE-APPROVAL, none of this would be an issue. This is an example of following the rules created by FD. Im sure if SA wouldve told them that they are making the mods to be competetive, BEFOREHAND, Formula D would have been fine with it. Do you honestly think that Takatoris car is the only car thats not running the "OEM" setup?

We have been discussing this over and over and over. IF you honestly think Formula D would have been fine with the mods BEFOREHAND, then the mods shouldn't matter NOW, right? Apply a FINE and DEDUCT POINTS to the SA Drift team for not being able to follow protocall, and move forward. Do you agree or disagree?

SA drift has already admitted to not getting pre-approval. That is the problem. If it was a "lost-in-translation" issue, where it was not translated that it needed to get pre-approval, then im sure that FD will work with the team. It seems that SA knows that they did not get pre-approval, so there is the issue.

These issues should be left private. Im sure that this is NOT the first issue of not following protocol, and will NOT be the last. The only difference is that certain people tied to SA have decided to speak openly to the public about it.

Check with other teams, im sure MOST have had issues that THEY NEEDED TO CHANGE AND FIX BEFORE A CERTAIN EVENT, OR RISK INELIGIBILITY. THEY KEPT IN PRIVATE, AND MADE THE CHANGES NEEDED TO RUN.

And for people to say that Eddie (Peak/Dynamic) and Bergenholtz are "afraid" of the competition, that is the most ignorant thing to be said. Ron and Eddie, have both helped out teams in need, regardless of if they are up against their drivers. Numerous drivers have bought parts from Eddie, and they are not teammates with Robbie or Joon. The reason why these guys are still around is because they are not biased and will help you out in order to help put on a great show for the fans, and because, they are genuinely nice people. Its a shame that there are not more people like this in this sport.

Don't make it like those guys you mentioned above are the only people that have helped out teams in need. Round 1, someone needed harnesses to pass tech. Where do you think he got them? I took them out of OUR OWN race car that was on display on the car show side so that it can be used to race with. EVERYONE knows that my resources and equipment on board our truck is available to anyone that asks...I've lent out TOOLS, PARTS, EQUIPMENT...like our vice, compressed air, anything man...use of the lift to get cars up in the air so that you can work on the transmission of a car. Everywhere I go, I go with all my stuff. I've helped out people in Laughlin, NV for Pro-Am events...help out stranded people on the side of PCH in the middle of the night with the rig just so that we could get to an event out in Las Vegas, NV. Dude...I can go on and on, and this is just stuff that's coming into my mind for the last part of 2007 and into 2008. I don't even wanna go into how many drivers I have helped all through D1 in 2006 and 2007. I can even go further and start pulling up things during the time I was involved with drag racing. Ask ANYONE. My doors are never closed. Bite your tongue kid. I help everyone out...even if that means a bottle of water, or a can of my prized Red Bull.

I hope to see Takatori, and SA drift at the track in Vegas. Hopefully all is corrected beforehand.

Best of luck to all teams.

[courantcom]

The strut setup on the front of the Team SA Skyline is similar to the front strut setup on a S14. The rear subframe and suspension on an S14 is the same as an R34.

Engine modifications/ swaps are legal. Body changes are legal. The Team SA car has no advantage over a properly built S14 with an RB26 swap. If anything it is at a disadvantage because its heavier. Someone said the chassis on the R34 is stiffer, but with a properly built S14 chassis and rollcage, it will be just as stiff.

Who wants to see another S14 running the series ? Who wants to see an R34 Skyline out running the series ?

Where are the problems and inconsistencies ? In the Formula Drift rules.

The car is a threat, the other teams must have been really scared of it.

I already said something about this:

---
Post #157

Yes, a really good point has been brought up here. Okay, so basically, if the SA car was in fact an S-Chassis car, with an RB swap, and Skyline body parts...IT would be legal according to Formula D rules. OEM Skyline front fenders, OEM hood, bumper, headlights...OEM Skyline tails, trunk, and rear bumper...

8.1.2.1 Cars must maintain the OEM look and feel and be clean, free of damage and presentable for competition.

8.1.2.2 Aftermarket body panels, front and/or rear fascias, side skirts and wings, etc. are permitted; body work that is not designed as O.E.M. or an O.E.M. replacement of the original make and model of the vehicle must be approved by FORMULA DRIFT.

8.2.1.1 Engine and transmission modifications are free.

See what I mean? ...there's a problem with the rulebook.

---

Lots of answers were already given to lots of "new" questions being asked.

[courantcom]

Formula Drift had their chance to handle this behind closed doors. It was a long time before this information went public. They opened up the can of worms, now can they close it ?

They sure did. Formula D was well aware of the situation pertaining to this car on April 11, 2008 -- this is the arrival date of Round 1 in Long Beach, CA. They issued their decision to SA Drift on June 23, 2008. That's what...TWO MONTHS and almost 2 weeks later? You made a post SIX days after they issued their letter to SA Drift. I'm sure that SA drift contacted Formula D immediately after receiving the letter. I'm sure that Formula D didn't respond quickly.

As mentioned in SA Drift's press release, TIME is of the essence.

[courantcom]

This thread and its negativity towards FORMULA D is spreading like a wildfire throughout other car forums. So to whoever wanted this to be a public issue - you're doing a hell of a job *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored**ng everyone and yourself over.

THIS is the only forum in which I have been voicing my thoughts. I had awareness that it was alive in other forums, but I'm not there. That means that all the other "talks" that are going on in OTHER forums are OTHER concerned people that have something to say about all this.

Believe it or not, you're not dragging just FORMULA D, the company, through the mud, but, FORMULA D, as a whole. The whole is a whole lot: Company, drivers, teams, sponsors, etc...

Maybe that's why this is such a controversial and *HOT* topic? It has to be, and that will explain why it's so popular, and makes everyone form an opinion of what's going on one way or the other. It challenges Formula D, which was long looked upon as the best sanctioning body to organize professional drifting. Anyone remember when Formula D was working with SCCA? I don't really know what SCCA did, and what Formula D did, but I think SCCA did the car side of things (rules and regulations), and Formula D did the other part of organizing an event (promotion and ticket sales). I'm NOT sure...but it makes sense that way.

When people think of FORMULA D, they think of it as one entity. So when people are talking sh*t about FORMULA D, they're talking about you, too, because you're a part of FORMULA D.

When people think of Formula D, they think of FORMULA D. The racers are always viewed as drift drivers. If anything, a lot of people out there still associate drifting with D1. Wanna argue with that? How long has D1 been around in the world? So...when people think of Formula D, they think of FORMULA D, and nothing more.

The old adage "don't bite the hand that feeds you" is reality in this case. FORMULA D, the company, is feeding almost the entire professional drifting scene and now a few is going to fu*k it up for everyone. Where else is there to go in the US?

We're not trying to kill Formula D. We're trying to highlight issues that need addressing. We have also made very good suggestions as to how to handle this particular issue. I don't think I need to revitalize old posts within this thread. It's not any of our faults on here if Formula D doesn't want to do anything about it, other than Formula D itself. Do you agree or disagree?

On the other forums, FORMULA D is really taking the heat for alot of *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* right now. Keep in mind that these are on forums of people who actually make drifting a lucrative business for many- the fans. Once you taint their image with corruption and inequality, many of them will spend their $$$$$ elsewhere.

When Formula D emerged, I'm sure they set their sights on D1. I'm sure when news that D1 was going to stop having events in the USA, Formula D quietly celebrated. You say that many of them will spend the $$$$$ elsewhere. Maybe it's time for another sanctioning body to emerge.

Everyone (the company, drivers and teams) thats asssociated with FORMULA D needs to find a quick and amicable resolution to this issue because this will have an effect on everyone.

Only FORMULA D needs to find a quick and amicable resolution to this issue. Formula D needs to be aware that this has an effect on everyone. All I am is someone that sees something wrong. All I ever have done was ask questions, and bring things up. Don't blame any of us for pressing an issue.

In your post number 271, you said that rules are rules, and they need to be clear without any loopholes in it. NOW, in your last post, you're backing Formula D up?

[tyndago]

Using these points I can only conclude that the problem isn't the car, FD is applying penalties to a team because they did not ask for pre approval.

So let me ask a question, if Team SA asked for approval during the build of this car would they have been given the approval just like the Tc was?

That is a question that wants an answer.

[tyndago]

So just as I posted earlier today, there isn't another car in FD that has a unibody off another chassis. So you can stop pointing fingers at everyone else and just deal with your penality, which by the way is very light. Most motorsport organizations would tell you not to show up untill it was fixed and take away all points since they were aquired with an illegal car.

Are you sure there isn't another car using OEM parts off a chassis in the same family ? Very sure about that ?

Even Formula Drift said that there were "Others are still being investigated. No one knows how many other active investigations are going on. It is a sensitive and special process and we take care in how we do it. "

No one knows ? "Professional series". And I use that very lightly now. No one knows. How ridiculous is that?

Now that we are talking rules, and you seem to know rules so well, please explain this rule to me. I am too much of a moron, according to some people to understand it.

8.3.3 Modified or aftermarket suspension parts are only allowed if pre-approved by Formula Drift.

Whats "pre-approved" ? Magic list that doesn't exist. There is no such thing. Its just a nod and a wink.

I do not work for Team SA. I have never met their driver, never met their crew. I do however feel, and this is my opinion, which is the reason I started this thread, that they are being singled out.

A competitor could walk though the paddock with a stack of $100 bills and protest every single car in the series based on 8.3.3. The competitor however has no way of knowing if a modified or aftermarket suspension part was "pre-approved". $100 is what it costs to protest a car.

Formula Drift talks about being "backed into a corner". Anyone else really believe that ? They can pre approve a Scion. They can't approve a Skyline, that only came to the US days before the first event ? Nope. Too much of a threat to the establishment. If it were #26 in points, no one would care.

[thenewguys]

Scion TC ? FWD to RWD.

8.2.1.3 The drive train may be modified, but vehicles must be driven by the rear wheels only.

So unless they cut off the rear clip from a supra or some other vehicle and used that, your point isn't valid. But that dosen't matter anyway because the TC got approval from FD.

8.3.1 Basic Design
The basic OEM suspension design type must remain. Any changes to design type suspension must be pre approved by FORMULA DRIFT.

So just as I posted earlier today, there isn't another car in FD that has a unibody off another chassis. So you can stop pointing fingers at everyone else and just deal with your penality, which by the way is very light. Most motorsport organizations would tell you not to show up untill it was fixed and take away all points since they were aquired with an illegal car.

[tyndago]

The R34 is the ONLY CAR that has parts of a unibody from another car on it. It has not only changed the pick-up points but it has completly removed the unibody that came on the car from the factory. .

Scion TC ? FWD to RWD.

[deadpirate]

8.1.1.4 Cars must maintain the original OEM unibody and/or frame structure between the original front and rear suspension mounting points.

THIS IS WHY THE CAR IS ILLEGAL!!

So explain why SA should be allowed to run a car that violated this rule, without getting pre-approval from FD. And try to do it without accusing other teams of breaking the rules.

The R34 is the ONLY CAR that has parts of a unibody from another car on it. It has not only changed the pick-up points but it has completly removed the unibody that came on the car from the factory. I am pretty sure thats the reason that it has been penalized. EVERY CAR in the series has aftermarket suspension on it, no one runs the stock shocks on their car in FD. Just because SA wasn't smart enough to contact FD about the changes to their car before hand, don't assume that every team made that same mistake.

The way that the representatives of the SA team have handeled this matter by flaming on internet forums is very unprofessional. Making unfounded accusations on other teams that their car is illegal on internet forums without knowing the facts is childish.

according to the JAPANESE FORMULA D RULEBOOK SA used, they saw no need to contact FD

dont accuse SA of handling this unprofessionally,they have been trying to get this problem solved since round 1 off the messageboards and behind closed doors

[thenewguys]

8.1.1.4 Cars must maintain the original OEM unibody and/or frame structure between the original front and rear suspension mounting points.

THIS IS WHY THE CAR IS ILLEGAL!!

So explain why SA should be allowed to run a car that violated this rule, without getting pre-approval from FD. And try to do it without accusing other teams of breaking the rules.

The R34 is the ONLY CAR that has parts of a unibody from another car on it. It has not only changed the pick-up points but it has completly removed the unibody that came on the car from the factory. I am pretty sure thats the reason that it has been penalized. EVERY CAR in the series has aftermarket suspension on it, no one runs the stock shocks on their car in FD. Just because SA wasn't smart enough to contact FD about the changes to their car before hand, don't assume that every team made that same mistake.

The way that the representatives of the SA team have handeled this matter by flaming on internet forums is very unprofessional. Making unfounded accusations on other teams that their car is illegal on internet forums without knowing the facts is childish.

[OldSkool510]

What you can't handle the truth ? The truth about inequality in how the rules are enforced.

This is not a clear cut matter of black and white. There are shades of rear wheel drive Scions, and coil over Corvettes clouding it.

Formula Drift had their chance to handle this behind closed doors. It was a long time before this information went public. They opened up the can of worms, now can they close it ?

From what I've read, there's several versions of the truth floating around out there. Regardless, instead of fanning the flames, you who have influence out there should be working together to put the fire out. Otherwise, you'll all get burned.

I'm writing as a concerned fan and have no vested interest in this matter like many of you do. I would hate to see Formula D lose fans and supporters over this. Formula D is the only thing going and is the only company strong enough to expand the reach of drifting as a motorsport.

Further advancement=more sponsors and fans= more prize $$$$$ for teams = better product for fans. Everyone wins.

[CamelTouge]

I will make this short and sweet. Adding more to this thread is only hurting the sport, and all involved.

This is NOT a "pick on" the Skyline because its top 10 in points. Why would Formula D single out Takatori? because its a Skyline? Okubo last year was not singled out.

This is a prime example of following Protocol. IF SA drift went through the right channels and got PRE-APPROVAL, none of this would be an issue. This is an example of following the rules created by FD. Im sure if SA wouldve told them that they are making the mods to be competetive, BEFOREHAND, Formula D would have been fine with it. Do you honestly think that Takatoris car is the only car thats not running the "OEM" setup?

SA drift has already admitted to not getting pre-approval. That is the problem. If it was a "lost-in-translation" issue, where it was not translated that it needed to get pre-approval, then im sure that FD will work with the team. It seems that SA knows that they did not get pre-approval, so there is the issue.

These issues should be left private. Im sure that this is NOT the first issue of not following protocol, and will NOT be the last. The only difference is that certain people tied to SA have decided to speak openly to the public about it.

Check with other teams, im sure MOST have had issues that THEY NEEDED TO CHANGE AND FIX BEFORE A CERTAIN EVENT, OR RISK INELIGIBILITY. THEY KEPT IN PRIVATE, AND MADE THE CHANGES NEEDED TO RUN.

And for people to say that Eddie (Peak/Dynamic) and Bergenholtz are "afraid" of the competition, that is the most ignorant thing to be said. Ron and Eddie, have both helped out teams in need, regardless of if they are up against their drivers. Numerous drivers have bought parts from Eddie, and they are not teammates with Robbie or Joon. The reason why these guys are still around is because they are not biased and will help you out in order to help put on a great show for the fans, and because, they are genuinely nice people. Its a shame that there are not more people like this in this sport.

I hope to see Takatori, and SA drift at the track in Vegas. Hopefully all is corrected beforehand.

Best of luck to all teams.

[tyndago]

The Scion wasn't picked on as much because it didn't pose a threat to many of the drivers and teams. However, the Skyline has the ability to keep up with the big boys of drifting. What advantage does it actually gain with the set-up? I know rules are rules, but the rules need to be clear with no loopholes in it.

The strut setup on the front of the Team SA Skyline is similar to the front strut setup on a S14. The rear subframe and suspension on an S14 is the same as an R34.

Engine modifications/ swaps are legal. Body changes are legal. The Team SA car has no advantage over a properly built S14 with an RB26 swap. If anything it is at a disadvantage because its heavier. Someone said the chassis on the R34 is stiffer, but with a properly built S14 chassis and rollcage, it will be just as stiff.

Who wants to see another S14 running the series ? Who wants to see an R34 Skyline out running the series ?

Where are the problems and inconsistencies ? In the Formula Drift rules.

The car is a threat, the other teams must have been really scared of it.

[tyndago]

This thread and its negativity towards FORMULA D is spreading like a wildfire throughout other car forums. So to whoever

What you can't handle the truth ? The truth about inequality in how the rules are enforced.

This is not a clear cut matter of black and white. There are shades of rear wheel drive Scions, and coil over Corvettes clouding it.

Formula Drift had their chance to handle this behind closed doors. It was a long time before this information went public. They opened up the can of worms, now can they close it ?

[OldSkool510]

This thread and its negativity towards FORMULA D is spreading like a wildfire throughout other car forums. So to whoever wanted this to be a public issue - you're doing a hell of a job *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored**ng everyone and yourself over.

Believe it or not, you're not dragging just FORMULA D, the company, through the mud, but, FORMULA D, as a whole. The whole is a whole lot: Company, drivers, teams, sponsors, etc...

When people think of FORMULA D, they think of it as one entity. So when people are talking sh*t about FORMULA D, they're talking about you, too, because you're a part of FORMULA D.

The old adage "don't bite the hand that feeds you" is reality in this case. FORMULA D, the company, is feeding almost the entire professional drifting scene and now a few is going to fu*k it up for everyone. Where else is there to go in the US?

On the other forums, FORMULA D is really taking the heat for alot of *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* right now. Keep in mind that these are on forums of people who actually make drifting a lucrative business for many- the fans. Once you taint their image with corruption and inequality, many of them will spend their $$$$$ elsewhere.

Everyone (the company, drivers and teams) thats asssociated with FORMULA D needs to find a quick and amicable resolution to this issue because this will have an effect on everyone.