(FEEDBACK) FORMULA D ATLANTA May 8-9th 2009

[INFO]

"Drifting.com can setup a section of their forum that's only accessible to certain people."

a private drivers forum was started back in 2005

[courantcom]

In a round about way, a handful of people have hinted that I should "tone down" a bit here on this public forum. As I have mentioned before, I want other drivers to chime in and put in their two cents. However...we all already know that none of that is going to happen.

SCCA World Challenge has a forum that is only accessible (login and password) by teams and key individuals. Perhaps Formula D should also have such a forum on their own website so that more people can voice their thoughts. If Formula D doesn't wanna do it on their website, maybe Drifting.com can setup a section of their forum that's only accessible to certain people. That way, Formula D can honestly have a true form of "open discussion" available to the people that choose to participate in their series.

[courantcom]

its pretty much known, all tires get softer with heat.

most "high performance" street tire will test lower then 50 hot

9.3.4 Tires must meet a minimum durometer reading of 49, hot or cold, at all times during an EVENT, measured using an ISO868 or ASTM D2240 compliant
Type A durometer.

Do you think that the rule should read:

"9.3.4 All tires to be used during an event must meet a minimum durometer reading of 49 measured using an ISO868 or ASTM D2240 compliant Type A durometer on unmounted tires with a surface temperature between 70-77 degrees Fahrenheit measured using a probe type tire pyrometer."

If possible, I think that having a few two person crews walk around the paddocks during an event prior to anything that involves the cars being on the track can go around measuring tires that teams will use and then applying an FD "seal" on them once they pass the test. As the cars pull up to the start line, the seals need to be there in order for them to be allowed to proceed.

I understand that this proposition could be a huge feat as one team can point to a stack of 16 tires...or more. This "simple task" may take officials well over a couple hours to complete. So, maybe this idea...as cool as it sounds...may not be totally possible.

Either way, this simple "rule" was put under the spotlight because Pat Mordaunt got outright disqualified because of it. I still do not think that the punishment fit the alleged crime based upon the circumstances. ...and because of that actual serious ordeal, this discussion in this thread is also a serious ordeal.

[APACHE-R]

So are you saying that there were lots of other tires that tested lower than 49 on the hot tire test ?

Handle your Scandal....

When nothing is being done to alter the tires (cheating) and the majority of the tires allowed in FD cannot stay above the minimum rating required by the rule, the rule needs to go. It served no purpose and is just going to result in the series becoming protestfest 2009, with drivers advancing on techinical disqualifications all year. I thought there was some driving involved in the series? Should the team that files the most protests win each round? Sounds like that will happen if the rule is not changed or removed.

[Bebop]

So are you saying that there were lots of other tires that tested lower than 49 on the hot tire test ?

Handle your Scandal....

its pretty much known, all tires get softer with heat.

most "high performance" street tire will test lower then 50 hot

[tyndago]

I wouldn't necessarily say it was "cheating" or not. Because of how Formula D tested the tires, it will make every tire look like a cheater tire. Having a HOT tire read above 49 on a tire durometer is hard for any tire to do. Read earlier posts. You'll also find the true subject matter of all this:

So are you saying that there were lots of other tires that tested lower than 49 on the hot tire test ?

Handle your Scandal....

[courantcom]

^^^^
I don't see ANY problem with this whole thing to be posted in the public. Without the public, FD would be nothing.

...without the public, EVERYTHING would be nothing. Every single business thrives on the public.

[courantcom]

Sounds like Hankook did a little cheating themselves
Thanks for opening the floodgates Pat!

FYI Pat:
No disrespect to you in my prior post. Your an awesome driver! Get yourself a big time sponsor like Coke or Pepsi and watch FD get on your nuts for any and all of your needs.

I wouldn't necessarily say it was "cheating" or not. Because of how Formula D tested the tires, it will make every tire look like a cheater tire. Having a HOT tire read above 49 on a tire durometer is hard for any tire to do. Read earlier posts. You'll also find the true subject matter of all this:

1) Formula D's durometer rule needs to be changed. A standardized and proper procedure needs to be put in place.

2) Pat Mordaunt should NOT have been disqualified.

[courantcom]

Think of it this way...If you towed my fancy expensive car and one of your procedures to get it on or off the flatbed scratched it.

We spoke about the scratch quickly, but it was an issue that needed further discussion and negotiation between us. In the meantime, my friends (who heard about the issue from me), took to the internet and spoke of you and your company in a bad way concerning the scratch on a "Tow Truck Feedback Forum."

This is happening while you and I are trying to settle things in private.

How would you feel about that situation?

Well, if I took more than a day to get the ball rolling in resolving this for you, then I would understand your position. Something like this seems like a clear cut case. The scratch would be my fault, and I'll get the ball rolling immediately. If I l-a-g-g-e-d on this situation with you, and you blasted me on the internet, then that's my fault too. I shouldn't have lagged on you, OR ON ANYONE ELSE. It's a fairness thing. Get it?

Would you prefer we settle the issue on our own, without anyone else being involved or do you prefer the "openness and full disclosure" of a forum, where lies, conspiracies and false accusations are very hard to discern from the truth and bad reputations can be established very quickly?

You can disclose it on the internet...but then you'll also have to disclose that I took care of it before the day was over and that I didn't lag on your situation. Choose your poison. I've grown up a lot through my years, and this is how I do my work. As I've said before, I put my heart in just about everything I do. I wouldn't compromise anything like this.

You may have a valid point in your arguments, but show them to FormulaD and give them the opportunity to look over everything first. Maybe then they can make the appropriate changes to the rules, figure things out with Pat, and put out a press release or rule change. If after trying the quiet, professional way of approaching this situation they don't acknowledge the problem, THEN take to the interwebs to voice your concern and disgust.

It shouldn't even have gotten to the point where Formula D would need an opportunity to look over this situation. It shouldn't have happened. Again...it SHOULDN'T have happened. Well, it happened...so now what? You still say "maybe" they should make changes to the rules...Haven't you read enough through this thread that the rules NEED to be changed?

Quiet is one way. Professional is another. Read my posts and then decide if I'm not professional in my expressions, suggestions, and criticisms. Several people misread my posts and begin to think I'm just lining up for a bashfest onto Formula D. No. I highlighted an issue. I made suggestions as to what to do...and like everyone else, I'm eagerly waiting for a reply.

The way you are doing this is very unprofessional and unfair to Formula D. You haven't given them a chance to fix the problem and are insinuating that they have flat out refused to do anything about
it.

Formula D shouldn't need days to figure this out. They shouldn't even need hours. They have a Chief Stewart in place that's supposed to know the rulebook, and know whether or not it's correct, within reason, etc. Like I mentioned before...if you and I had a situation with your car because of my towing practices, I won't take days to resolve the situation.

[OldSkool510]

For example, Rhys obviously had a tip to change tires to T1R while others were still obliviously running R1R.

That has TIREGATE written all over it....This topic is reaching "soap opera" status now. Keep it up guys. I second Pure Awesomeness!

[vvtisupra]

I cannot disagree more with you Eddie if I may call you by your first name.

If and only if Formula D kept this in the wraps and "settled" the issue with Pat M. privately fellow racers would not learn from the mistakes and quite possibly fall into the same issue once again.

For example, Rhys obviously had a tip to change tires to T1R while others were still obliviously running R1R.

Let alone, without public review Formula D would be constructing "fixes" using the same group that caused the problem. By publically opening the issue there can be constructive criticism. Which is why I think they created this post for FEEDBACK.

Also, diving into assumptions. If this issue was resolved under cover brother style, would we have known that there were other tire companies who were also non compliant?

Also for Formula D to say others were not DQ'd because they were already eliminated and would be a moot point, wouldn't those teams get to keep their qualifying points, while Pat M. who gets DQ'd will have to forfeit all the points earned that round including qualifying?

Meaning no .25 of a point or whatever it is for qualifying top 32? Meaning .25 more points Pat needs to secure within the next few rounds in order to keep his Formula D liscense for next year? That doesn't sound fair.


Man because of Drifting.com I am even more of a fanatic of Formula D, trying to learn the ins and outs of this series! I love this. Not only do they add Tony Angelo as a judge for this year but now this?

Pure awesomeness !

[Tracy]

The drifting at Turner was fun on Sunday! It was so nice to see some of you guys from the West Siiide I hope this all works out for the best. I didn't go to Drift Atlanta this year, so I don't really have feedback for that, but I do have feedback on how to keep drifting fun. DON'T SPEND SO MUCH MONEY ON IT AND KEEP IT LOCAL. Since I have started doing that, I now remember what I love so much about it

[Brian]

"Debbie Downer"....

womp womp womp woommmmmmpppp

[OldSkool510]

Lets take note that Victor has yet to say not to do buisnes with FD, or anything of that sort. Unlike our old buddy Rhys making threats to go to D1.

Victor has no shame in his game, which is cool. He's not afraid to go up against the establishment at all. Even after all that stuff with SA-Drift last season, he still represents at the events.

[Bebop]

Kim,

Nothing in the public forum prohibits Victor for speaking out on behalf of Pat. But I dont think thats his angle overall, its too speak out on behalf on a rule that is enforce in a faulty manner. Again, let me emphasize this as a public forum.

Its a cool thing to have average joes, pro drivers, and team owners like your self come out and discus your grievances and or compliments about the way FD conducts business. In my opinion it does not affect the sport at all because the fans will keep on showing up and tuning in.

The sponsors will stay as long as the fans stay interested. We should be focusing on the fans... and rules like these make me tune out the sport more and more. But honestly, theres alot more positives then these negatives to make me stop driving and watching.

Its funny how no one says nothing when JR posts blogs on speedhunters accusing folks of brake checking. No one criticised wrecked when they make polls "who's at fault for the crash at long beach, JR or Sam"... no one says anything to them. Because honestly it ain't hurting no body... its keeping us focused and adding more elements to the sport for the fans to feed off of. People love drama and people want as much detail as they can and give there 2 cents as well.

Sorry Kim, but the undermining message in all your posts is essentially this is subject matter that shouldn't be talked about in public. And what Victor is doing can ultimately drive him self and Pat out of the sport and potential sponsors for other teams as well. Which we all know is false.

With your surprise appearance back on the forum saying what you are saying is almost like you and your team have something to hide as well. "Hey Vic, stfu before FD starts poking they're snouts around my rig". If your so concerned about the negativity on this thread you could just do like you normally do and not post. I think you like this subject matter as much as we do.

Sorry Kim but yea, we got to do it again.