(FEEDBACK) FORMULA D ATLANTA May 8-9th 2009

[Patrick Mordaunt]

First off, let me say that I am in no way a cheater, nor have I ever thought of gaining an unfair advantage over another team. I'm a privateer in this sport, running a near street car S14 with the most basic of modifications, all of which are off the shelf parts.

Why would I need to modify a tire that a past team with 500+ hp had no grip problems with and won a championship on. I'm 100 hp under that team, and nowhere near the torque their car produced. This illustrates more than enough reason to show why I wouldn't need to put additives onto the tire, unless I wanted to put my car back into the underpowered category.

I do not like the situation at hand, and I'm sure nobody like how this has all played out.

But Eddie, please do not start pointing fingers at me, and stating that I have acted unprofessionally or have done any wrongdoings. I personally have kept quiet on a public scale about this matter, sounding off in the spotters stand and voicing my opinion in the proper place is what I did during the event. I do not control Victor, nor will I ever force him to act in a different manner. I have been asked by other parties to quiet him down, and have relayed the message, but it does not mean I have final say in his actions.

I have also seen data from your team (Peak Performance), as well as other teams, and do not want to drag anyone else into this. But if forced I will be loud and extremely public with my information. As i've said though, NOBODY needs this, which is why I'm allowing it to only affect my team (PM Racing).

I have submitted my paperwork with Formula Drift and am keeping quiet in regards to our working through this problem until it is resolved.

Thank you for everyone's support through this difficult situation.
I will not chime in again until it has been resolved.

[courantcom]

I wonder how much more "insider information" gets out before an acknowledgment of a flawed testing procedure. As always, there is much more to the story than is being made public.

An acknowledgment of a flawed procedure is then admitting that a DQ was wrong. Then how do FD handle that?

Losing is one thing, getting disqualified because people don't know how to write and verify rules is another.

Admitting such a wrong would entail a couple press releases, a rule change, a comp'ed entry into the next event for Pat Mordaunt.

[tyndago]

I wonder how much more "insider information" gets out before an acknowledgment of a flawed testing procedure. As always, there is much more to the story than is being made public.

An acknowledgment of a flawed procedure is then admitting that a DQ was wrong. Then how do FD handle that?

Losing is one thing, getting disqualified because people don't know how to write and verify rules is another.

[OldSkool510]

I love all the insider information that comes out, especially the one about Kim and Papadakis in the tower at Long Beach. It reminds me of "Fast and the Furious" with Toretto (Papadakis, a skinny and less-tanned version) and Johnny Tran (Eddie Kim) going at it at RACE WARS. lol

[Brian]

there is a lot of unrest in drifting.

[OldSkool510]

This is coming from the guy who blows his lid everytime things don't go his way. If anyone has a behavior problem, it's you, Mr. Kim.

Formula D Round 1 LB - Spotter's tower

"So what's it gonna be Steph? A drag race or more brake checking?!!" (as if Mr. Papadakis is actually telling Tanner to do either) followed by more smack talking and a charge over to Mr. Papadakis as if you're ready to throw down.

Remember that? Yet YOU are dissappointed in what's going on here? Whaaa? It may not be in public where everyone can see but you really need to check your own behavior before you go spouting off on here as if you're someone with more than just an opinion and your all important attention is "required."

Like the gangsta philosopher, Mr. Ice Cube says - "You betta check yo self, before you wreck yo self!"


In defense of "courantcom," we all know he is always very adamant and passionate about his causes. It's his approach in dealing with these causes that comes into question most of the time.

If anything though, he has brought into light a possible flaw with the "durometer" testing. It's like D1's Drift Box, in that there are just too many variables that aren't factored in for the "durometer" reading to be deemed 100% accurate.


Who is responding for FD?

Now many people are going to say that other drivers tested below the level set by the chief steward so they should have been dq'd as well. We that would be true except the fact that both of those situations those tires that came in under the level both lost their run so it was moot.

Answers like that only fuel the fire. In no way does that comment address the issue. "They lost anyways, so it doesn't matter." People are looking for answers and possible solutions to the issue at hand.

I have always been a staunch supporter of FD since their inception. Believe it or not, FD and drifting as a motorsport is still relatively new with many wrinkles that need to be ironed out. Their rule book has many gray areas, that need incidents like this to expose those gray areas. I'm sure FD will make adjustments as they see fit in the best interest of drifting as a motorsport.

[my 1 88 u]

It's not even a scandal, really. It was wrong to test the tires the way they did. It was wrong to disqualify Pat Mordaunt because they tested the tires the way they did.

...if there's any kind of scandal, it's because only Pat got disqualified and nobody else.

which makes it "[a] kind of scandal", hence the "gate"

[courantcom]

This is coming from the guy who blows his lid everytime things don't go his way. If anyone has a behavior problem, it's you, Mr. Kim.

Formula D Round 1 LB - Spotter's tower

"So what's it gonna be Steph? A drag race or more brake checking?!!" (as if Mr. Papadakis is actually telling Tanner to do either) followed by more smack talking and a charge over to Mr. Papadakis as if you're ready to throw down.

Remember that? Yet YOU are dissappointed in what's going on here? Whaaa? It may not be in public where everyone can see but you really need to check your own behavior before you go spouting off on here as if you're someone with more than just an opinion and your all important attention is "required."

"Think about it"

Victor is simply asking Formula DRIFT to be transparent when it comes to their rules/rulebook/rule enforcement...how is that in anyway out of line? IT SHOULD BE EXPECTED BY EVERYONE INVOLVED WITH THE SERIES!! Of course protesting what happened is a step in the right direction, but bringing the problem out in the open is also part of this process. Especially when it appears to be a reoccurring issue on the part of Formula DRIFT.

My personal opinion is this rule should have never made it into the series in it's current form. If the series is worried about teams altering the tires to gain unfair advantages, they need to test for such alterations BEFORE each tire is used instead of this half @$$ed attempt to monitor tire softness. If Patrick Mordaunt did nothing to alter the tires, why is he being made to suffer? Because this rule that supposedly has "2 years of testing" behind it is poorly written and being enforced poorly! Not acceptable in the least.

Tiregate? You want a scandal do you? How about the info floating on the web that Patrick Mordaunt was DQ'd after beating a DA driver because there were protests filed against him. Apparently round 1 saw virtually all makes of tires having trouble with this new rule. Of course this information was never made public or communicated to the teams however, someone must have known to start protesting at round 2. A DA team perhaps? How would they know to protest? Could they have heard from a DA judge? Soundy sketchy

On top of that, Rhys knew to be on a different tire towards the end of Round 2 in Atlanta. He was on Toyo T1-R's at the end. See...this is what happens when too many "closed door" meetings happen. Some people get a "message", when others don't. So now what. WHAT TIRES CAN BE USED FOR NEW JERSEY? I think EVERY RACER needs to know this, so they can start making plans to have them in time.

[courantcom]

"gate" is a euphemism for "scandal".

It's not even a scandal, really. It was wrong to test the tires the way they did. It was wrong to disqualify Pat Mordaunt because they tested the tires the way they did.

...if there's any kind of scandal, it's because only Pat got disqualified and nobody else.

[courantcom]

I would be mad as hell, and probably want to kick Jim in the head. I wouldn't do it, but I am sure I would be extremely upset.

...but a call like that wouldn't be Jim's call! It would be R-A-N-D-Y'S call... Like I said before. I'm not upset with Jim, or Ryan. I know this end of the deal isn't in their hands because they hired someone else to do that FOR them. Jim and Ryan's expertise doesn't lie deep in the realm of motorsports. They hired someone from SCCA to do it for them. During the "race", Randy has the final say. Period. It says it in the rule book. That one rule gives him more power than the founders of Formula D itself.

1.4 OPERATING AUTHORITY
At race events, the FORMULA DRIFT Chief Steward, aka Race Director (CHIEF STEWARD) has authority for the conduct of all competition aspects of the event.
He/She reports to the President of FORMULA DRIFT, with all other Race Officials reporting to him.

[my 1 88 u]

Of course I have heard of the Watergate scandal...but I didn't correlate the two. It's not really the same. I mean, it's almost a well known fact that every single presidential campaign finds a way to break into the opposition's offices...just that Nixon's people got caught, and they made a big deal about it.

Pat wasn't trying to cheat...he wasn't trying to break the rules. In fact, he thought we was within the rules. It's not even the same -- not even close.

"gate" is a euphemism for "scandal".

[courantcom]

I would be mad as hell, and probably want to kick Jim in the head. I wouldn't do it, but I am sure I would be extremely upset. But I would soon realize, either formal protest, work it out or just quit the sport or go to another sanctioning body. Ferrari could quit F1, and go to LeMans or Nascar, I don't know, is that the solution you want?

Victor, what can you do? How about talking to Pat, getting his side of the story and then writing a formal protest to FD. Then set an appointment with Jim and Ryan to discuss this in their office, not putting it on this forum. I know that their are fair, plead your case with Pat, I am sure if the call was unfair they would do something to help out Pat or make it up to him if it was deemed unfair. Your ability to create a good relationship with FD is an asset to Pat and yourself. Discuss like adults the problem and try to find a solution so that things like this don't happen again. You may walk out of the office and not find the solution or an answer to your liking.

Perhaps this was already done...

No one wants to see Pat leave nor does FD want to kick out Pat. Sean suggested leaving the series or even threatening to leave. If that is the best solution for Pat and yourself, that will be unfortunate but trust me, the series will go on. I don't think that is the best solution, since both of you love the sport.

Nobody is suggesting anyone to leave. Everyone is suggesting that Formula D fix their once again broken rule book and procedures. What happened in Atlanta shouldn't have happened. Durometer testing that way shouldn't have happened. Having a racer disqualified because of it shouldn't have happened. IT SHOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED. In fact, Formula D should have allowed Pat to CONTINUE racing until the very end of the event, and then either docked points, fined, or whatever...afterwards. If Pat got 2nd place, and THEN got DQ'ed -- that's better. 3rd will now be 2nd, 4th will now be 3rd, etc.

Either way, I don't think he should have been disqualified because of his alleged infraction. There are extremely more severe cases presently on hand within the Formula D paddock that can deserve such punishment right now...but nobody is saying anything (neither am I).

Figure it out behind closed doors, don't air dirty laundry here. Work it out with FD, trash talking is only going to make it worse for your situation with FD and probably make other teams upset as you taint the series you run in. Imagine if sponsors pull out of drifting because all this is going on, it really won't help anyone.

Earlier, you mentioned that Pat leaving the series won't hurt Formula D. Well...sponsors leaving the series would. I'm relatively certain that Toyo Tires can't be 100% happy right now. I'm also relatively certain that your tire sponsor may just be happy that focus wasn't directed towards them instead. So, if two kinda big tire sponsors retract from Formula D, what then do you think will happen? I'm pretty sure that Formula D would immediately change their rules to be accommodating. Now, do you honestly think things like that happen behind closed doors? No. If a tire manufacturer retracts from Formula D, I'm sure there will be a few press releases about it...one of which will explain exactly why the retraction is being done.

...so this kinda brings it all back to the subject of why Pat Mordaunt was disqualified and not anyone else. Someone in this thread already mentioned that it was perhaps because Pat didn't have "big sponsors" behind him. Well, from the way things look right now, that theory seems to be true. Imagine if Rhys Millen was disqualified? That disqualification may jeopardize future sponsorship from Hyundai, Red Bull, Toyo, etc.

What if Rockstar or NOS energy pulls out of FD because they are sick of the drama that they perceive in drifting. Imagine what Forsberg or Tanner would say to you or Pat.

If they retract from FD because of the drama, it certainly wouldn't be because of me or Pat. Hahaha...I can't believe you're even thinking of it that way. The ONLY reason they will leave is IF AND ONLY IF their cars get disqualified, or if the rules are re-written in a way that their cars can no longer compete. It's obvious that I'm not the only one that knows that...so that's probably why they are more "protected" in this realm of motorsport.

Let me add something here that maybe put things into a different perspective. Let's say Formula D makes a new rule right here right now and bans all engines with more than 6 cylinders. V8's and V10's will not be allowed in New Jersey. What do you think would happen then... Yeah, so you see, Formula D does know better.

[my 1 88 u]

Sorry to burst everyones bubble but lets face reality here. Formula Drift is in the business of making money$$$$ Thats all it is. It just happens to be that they make money on drifting.

Sorry to burst your bubble but Ryan, Jim and the rest of the FD staff are not die hard enthusiast like the rest of us. They are businessmen. Smart ones I would say.

Do you think they care about clipping points, angle and speed? Sorry they dont...
While the rest of us are on the edge of our seats cheering for our favorite driver and booing judges for poorly judged runs. They are talking to sponsors, securing media coverage, etc..

If I was them I would not want to piss off my meal tickets like Rhys, Sam, JR and Tanner.
Pat Mondurant? While he is a talented driver and deserves every accolade he receives he offers no financial gain to Formula Drift (No Disrespect to Pat).
Sad to say but Formula Drift is no longer a sport for privateers.

Drifting has officially reached corporate status. Sponsorship dollars are more important than clipping points.

Sad that some of us cant accept that fact.

We all know that Toyo was using a tire softer than specified. Hell so was Hankook and Falken for that matter.

FD knows that it has to enforce the rules but they also do a good job of interpreting the rules. I agree all teams using illegal tires should be DQ from the ATL event. But it wont happen.
Dollars and cents my friends. Remember guys this is a business.

Good luck filling 32 slots with only corporate sponsored drivers.

[cpw28]

Victor,

I am truly disappointed with your behavior on this forum once again. I rarely post on here, but there are few threads that just require my attention.

Think about it.

Eddie Kim

This is coming from the guy who blows his lid everytime things don't go his way. If anyone has a behavior problem, it's you, Mr. Kim.

Formula D Round 1 LB - Spotter's tower

"So what's it gonna be Steph? A drag race or more brake checking?!!" (as if Mr. Papadakis is actually telling Tanner to do either) followed by more smack talking and a charge over to Mr. Papadakis as if you're ready to throw down.

Remember that? Yet YOU are dissappointed in what's going on here? Whaaa? It may not be in public where everyone can see but you really need to check your own behavior before you go spouting off on here as if you're someone with more than just an opinion and your all important attention is "required."

"Think about it"

Victor is simply asking Formula DRIFT to be transparent when it comes to their rules/rulebook/rule enforcement...how is that in anyway out of line? IT SHOULD BE EXPECTED BY EVERYONE INVOLVED WITH THE SERIES!! Of course protesting what happened is a step in the right direction, but bringing the problem out in the open is also part of this process. Especially when it appears to be a reoccurring issue on the part of Formula DRIFT.

My personal opinion is this rule should have never made it into the series in it's current form. If the series is worried about teams altering the tires to gain unfair advantages, they need to test for such alterations BEFORE each tire is used instead of this half @$$ed attempt to monitor tire softness. If Patrick Mordaunt did nothing to alter the tires, why is he being made to suffer? Because this rule that supposedly has "2 years of testing" behind it is poorly written and being enforced poorly! Not acceptable in the least.

Tiregate? You want a scandal do you? How about the info floating on the web that Patrick Mordaunt was DQ'd after beating a DA driver because there were protests filed against him. Apparently round 1 saw virtually all makes of tires having trouble with this new rule. Of course this information was never made public or communicated to the teams however, someone must have known to start protesting at round 2. A DA team perhaps? How would they know to protest? Could they have heard from a DA judge? Soundy sketchy

[Justin Banner]

What if Rockstar or NOS energy pulls out of FD because they are sick of the drama that they perceive in drifting. Imagine what Forsberg or Tanner would say to you or Pat.

You kidding me? Have you never heard the phrase "The only bad publicity is NO publicity?" They're probably eating it up so long as they are seen or mentioned!