Redline TV Boycott

[nissanguy_24]

I was going to post the rest of the arguement but suffice it to say it gets less pleasent from there, and you guys can go and read it on its own. I get less pleasent, he gets less pleasent. His ideas and feeling and basic lack of respect for drifters bug me. Not to mention his willingness to insult others just to protec this "good name" which aparently isnt that good around the net. This isnt the only forum where hes done it Fient later posted about half a dozen links of other threads on other forums where he got ran off or basicly started the exact same arguement, hell he even uses the same attacks and defences.

This gentlemen does not repersent what i wish drifting to become, so i will not be supporting anything he does. Those of you who have chosen to stand with me in this boycott are argeeing with me on this subject, and i hope you understand it.

What i am asking is the show or the sponsors like magnaflow break ties formally with this gentlemen and do not support his furthr endeavors. Infact if i was magnaflow or Lieberman and looking at the poll i would be asking my self "Gee over 80 percent i hope that thats just 80 percent of this site thats boycotting us, and not 80 percent of ALL drifters. So i suggest you go to other big drifting websites club4ag.com is an example and ask them how they feel.

I apeciate everyone's support. At the bare minimum they need to keep lieberman's hands off keyboards. Every time he jumps onto forums he seems to start an uprising against him. cementing any opinions or "myths" about him. Sometimes its best to remain silent.. yet other times you need to be vocal and take up causes. That is what im doing here.

Thank you everyone.

[craiglieberman]

Keep it coming

For every point you make my friend, you fail to cast your views introspectively. You just can take a moment to see that just maybe, actually care about making this a good show.

I'm sincerely apologetic that it has gotten to this point....please, may I point out some things:

I took 12 pages of threads, each with a personal attack, and ignored them. Then, I posted something in defense, I believe directed at Feint, but with all due respect, his post was pretty rude.

While you've posted links to other forums, you may not have scrolled down a bit. 99% of those board's members changed their view once given the facts and most stem from people's view that TF & TF was all my fault and that ugly cars are all my fault. Once they're given the facts, we have a good laugh and I still enjoy many relationships with forum members privately.

As for starting an uprising, I noticed at CLub4ag that there seems to be some tension between some of your members and theirs, but that their group seems to be the most well respected. I can only conclude that previously, some members of this board may have been equally hostile there, so you'll understand why I feel that I am at least somewhat just in concluding that some members here aren't as respectful as other members of the drifting community.

Your points about wanting to shape the future of the sport are well founded. You don't want it bastardized or commercialized. If you have time, I can explain to you how, wherever a sport has been commercialized in the mainstream, grassroots offshoots have prospered. My point: you don't own the sport of drifting, or the media, so you can't control that. But you CAN control what you do in the sport. I commend you for knowing where you want to be in the sport, but I'll bet there are hundreds of others who would love to make their living doing this, or what they love. I'm one of them and yes, I get paid to do it (although again, I make nothing from this show).

You point out that 85% of members have responded as you wished in your poll. Interestingly, 15% of your own members don't agree and one could argue that it's a tad hypocritical that while some members sweared they wouldn't watch it, they did...and liked it. I'd bet the actual number was larger, but numbers aside, does the program do the subject matter justice? We've spent too much time bickering, not enough time keying on those points. (but thanks, Kalim, for some very good feedback)

You want to blame me for the wrongs done by Hollywood, fine. Hell, people are surprised to learn that I thought my Supra was SO offensively restyled by Universal that I couldn't wait to sell it. The irony here: I agree that TF &TF set some disturbing trends, but there was some good from it, and my ability to have something on my resume sufficient to give me the chance to do this show, a more authentic show, is one of those things.

Want to blame me for what's wrong with Redline, fine, but when your own forums' members post that they liked the show, a few sat in silence, but most chimed in with praise.

With all due respect, if I'm to blame for what's bad, who gets the credit for what's good? The true answer to both questions: its' a team effort...and I'm proud to be a member of that team.

You may think that I have no right to respond rudely to vicious attacks, but I do have the right and I sat back for 12 pages of it, then endured another 5 pages of it, somewhere in the mix TRYING to keep the thread on topic. I was polite and answered all questions, dispelled all myths and repeatedly offered evidentiary support that although older, I can relate to all things automotive and have had several years of experience in a wide range of automotive arenas.

If was sharp in my replies, I offer my apologies to anyone I offended. I offer no excuse but frustration.

But as of late, I've repeatedly tried to funnely this topic into a feedback forum.

Instead, I was met with a barrage of "you only have 17 posts on this board." Guilty as charged. Like most of you, I have a job, which keeps me away from the computer more often than I'd like. But I do in fact surf a wide range of forums, am an active member of this community and like it or not, I was here long ago. No, this doesn't make me right, either, but may I offer it only to point out the ground we broke then was built on the ground work from those who came before us...and that while it's not what you're doing today, it was the grandaddy. I don't think you can't praise people like Alex Pfeiffer for being a pioneer without at least acknowledging that there were other pioneers before him...way before him. Many of the pioneers go back to the mid 50's, if you think about it, in every corner of the sport, from street racing to touge. You should take pride in what you do today, but not without acknowledging the pioneers who helped get it started.

I can also tell you that in every single case where a person has started an attack on another forum , they'v recanted or changed their views after I take a moment to answer a few basic questions and disspell some myths. I don't expect your admiration or adulation, just some respect.

It has nothing to do with age, it has to do with credentials, and while you keep insisting that I've belittled you for your age, your assumption is wrong: I'm pointing out that my background, the cars I've driven/raced/owned were not listed to impress anyone, just offered as a taste of my background.

Never did I claim to be a pro drifter. Never did I claim that I wanted to be a pro drifter. In fact, I was smart enough to realize that to make this program work, we'd have to talk to people from within each segment we covered...hear their words, hear their stories, and chronicle their pain and heartaches. What did we do? We covered PRO drifters AND amateur drifters. I noticed that I have not met any of the members of this board at any of the drifting events we covered, hope they go to Drift Day events, as I promise to pay even closer attention.

You harp on a point that I seem contradictory in seeking opinions. No, I AM seeking opinions, not mindless attacks on why the tuner world sucks since TF&TF and people's misguided assumptions that I somehow am to blame for it. I've ignored a handful of really rude posts and will continue to do so. Nothing positive can come from it.

I have repeatedly asked for positive and constructive criticism and to their credit, a greater number of people are now offering this, even on this board. I thank them.

More and more of your members are starting to realize that perhaps they can indeed help shape this program into something spectacular.

As I urged you in a PM, you may want to spend less time trying to prove points or defend friends, and start thinking what's best for this sport: letting it be interpreted and commercialized is NOT a good thing, I agree. And here's your chance to showcase to the world what it is in America in real terms.

Again, I AM the sponsor. I created the program, I got it funded, and I enlisted a TEAM of talented people to bring this to life. If you want to blame someone, blame me,....but if you give credit, please credit the TEAM.

In the end, you can and should voice your concerns (professionally, please), but the sponsors are committed to this program for six shows. With some constructive feedback, the show could be made into a showpiece for the industry, something non commercial, true to the people who do it and something we can all be proud of it.

[Ziptyed]

One thing I've heard repeated by many people, is to have a project car build up on the show, like a 240, or an Corolla GTS. But I would like to see some great company names along with these projects, like for example the Corolla GTS: SS Works, Chokets, TRD, Cusco, Bride, JUN, Jubiride, J-Blood, Work, Impul, Ray's, Tom's, and others. And If you wouldn't mind I would like to see pics of your Supra from before.(not being snotty). And maybe you yourself should get an 86 project going, and see for your self. Just m 2 cents.

[Ghost of Duluth]

Well, as of right now, I think we should all calm down on Mr Leiberman. You may not agree with his personally, may not agree with his cars an may not agree cause your friends don't but I see respect given from him and after going through 20 pages of nastiness, I see that it was not given in the beginning prompting him to defend himself. If ay of us went to another site and got that kind of treatment, we would be back over here raising a storm. So what if he built 2F&2F cars, don't matter. Past is past.

From now on out, keep it critical of the show, not of the man. Railing on the man is off topic anyway far as i'm concerned.

Thanks for the cooperation.

[my 1 88 u]

we've heard what he has to say, so now it is only time that will judge if his words are indeed ginuine. It was a rocky start but if he continues to reach out and participate in this forum's discussions in a aprouchable informative manner I'm sure we will respond accordingly. But if he dissapears with no change made it will show that his only purpose here was to manipulate and decieve to protect his own name and interests.

[Feint]

Re: Keep it coming

Originally posted by craiglieberman

As for starting an uprising, I noticed at CLub4ag that there seems to be some tension between some of your members and theirs, but that their group seems to be the most well respected. I can only conclude that previously, some members of this board may have been equally hostile there, so you'll understand why I feel that I am at least somewhat just in concluding that some members here aren't as respectful as other members of the drifting community.

I wouldn't be so quick to say that....Yes Club4ag is a well respected site,aside from the odd member that comes across all forums,it's a very well respected site,no doubt about it.Though only one member at that say feels different that the members on DRIFTING.com boycotting the show,which displays a similiar interest among members.This is no coincedence.Like said before,you were chased off of Club4ag once,they aren't taking your return back to that site nicely.Sure you might give others publicity,but that isn't to say your publicity is wanted.Like said by all of the Japanese drivers and most American drivers "Too quick,too fast".Option started the movement back in 86 with the first drift competition.It took Japan 18 years to get here,it moved slow,but it was worth it.In order to sustain a good base,it needs to be taken slow so the qualitu can be higher,rather than pushed and rushed too fast,leaving with a poor finish.The Japanese drivers are the ones who have been there and done that.If they believe it's moving too fast,chances are that we should listen to them and take their advice since they've been through the movement before,so they have first hand experince.Estimates and predictions can never match experince..Imo....a drifting show already is too soon.I wonder what the Japanese drivers think of this.If it was too soon before,obviously they would disagree with this being done now.

As for Coutrney Day...it's her,not her script...

*fixed broken hyperlink*

[my 1 88 u]

The only thing negative other forums have said about drifting.com is that it is a rest stop for newbies that think of drifting as a fad. This is due to DRIFTING.COM being the first thing that pops up when you search for DRIFTING. Or that the MODs are a little strict when it come to ILLEGAL activities such as street racing or drifting.

Nothing negative is ever said about the fact that we have a number of members that are extremly knowlegeable and articulate about all thing automotive and have the patience to put up with and edjucate those who are not.

I want more newbies to come and get educated so this "fad" of drifting becomes a life long daily sport to participate, watch, and enjoy.

Stop fighting with nissanguy_24, because he IS a respected member, (proof: http://www.drifting.com/forums/showt...&threadid=3352 ) and their is no need to be quaralling with such a valued member and moderator of this forum when you all could be working together to find common ground. I've layed out the blueprint of how you could become accepted here so take it.

[nissanguy_24]

Thank you man, However i am done argueing.. I stand by the things i said and my beliefs. But i dont feel a need to keep repeating it. You all know how i feel.

[my 1 88 u]

Oh, and we really don't need a show to help drifting grow, we need venues to practice!!!!

[spinitsidewayz!]

Originally posted by my 1 88 u
Oh, and we really don't need a show to help drifting grow, we need venues to practice!!!!

werd

[twcfc3s]

count me in, im with you...

[yarzan]

haha the argument continued here after it got cut off there... good times well i voted for a boycott since im leaving the coutnry anyway so i really dont care. haha take care all, nissanguy, i still respect u!

[twcfc3s]

Originally posted by Feint
38 againist 6..I really wonder who those 6 are .

some payed people...

[DaGOATRollaGTS]

Some people on this board are cool.

ALOT of you though are cacks. (think of male chickens)

As if the closed feedback thread wasnt enough.

Its over. You nore any number of you whining in unison will change jack about this show. You dont have a nielson box and your really a small cross section (considering the number of diffirent posters here) of enthusiasts.

For every one of you that posts something negative I have a message board I can rally behind the program.

Craig, RJ other insitful contributors to this board and the industry as a whole may not be able to say it but I sure as hell can.

Grow up. Stop using up your moms bottles of Jergins and getting the pages of your Primedia publications sticky. Except Super Street. They usually have some pretty hot coverage in those pages and I think Nads would kinda like the idea.

[nissanguy_24]

Yes i agree no one should ever dissagree with you or your heros, or else its whinning! thats the republican way isnt it?

Come off your self, if you dont like this thread you dont need to post in it.