me drifting... what do you think?

[Parry]

Originally posted by Drifterlunchb0x
...now the comment about "feeling" the car stock vs. modded...i am going disagree...you feel everything in a fully built suspension!!! i mean everything!!!! you feel the road you feel the tires you feel the leaf you drove over!!! YOU FEEL EVERYTHING!!!!....thats all i can think of saying...and once again fc keep it up man!!!

Yea, unfortunately you have no idea what we are talking about.

A+ for effort though

[malcolm]

maybe you've been driving your car like your grandma or something, stock car = soft spring & shock, how is this slows the weight transfer, really WTF! use some common sense.

um, no.

Go up to a bone-stock mini-van. Get your buddies to push it back and forth so that the weight transfers from side to side. You'll see that it will have a oscillation period of about 1 second (the weight will shift to the right, then shift back to the left in a time of one second). Now, go up to a lowered car. You need to push it much faster to get it to rock, if you can even rock it at all. The period of oscillation would be about 0.2 of a second.

This applies directly to the feint technique. I don't know how many times I've had to tell people with stiff suspension that when they feint, they need to do it FAST, and VERY HARSH. Had they started in a car with soft suspension, they would have been able to understand how weight transfer worked, and then been able to apply that knowledge to the stiffer car.

With a stock vehicle, you can turn out, wait half a second, then turn in, and the weight will shift to the outside and then you'll drift. With a stiff car, you turn out, then after a tenth of a second, you need to turn in to get the weight to shift. It's so much faster, and most noobs just can't think that fast. If they have enough guts to try it, they usually screw up over and over until they get frustrated, thus causing them to throw it into the weeds, or worse, a wall.

Oh, and yeah, when you crash a car, it's ride height doesn't affect anything. Also, when you lower a car by two inches, it may help a little bit on smooth dry asphalt, but that's ONLY if you do it properly. If you don't, your suspension geometry will be out, and you'll get massive bump-steer, amongst other things. If you don't know what bump-steer is, don't try to argue this.

[Drifterlunchb0x]

Parry ,


No need to be a smart @$$ , I am just saying what i know from my experiences. I was talking in general about ppl saying you can learn to feel the car ( ie learning ) and those that say you can feel the car, as in feel hows its moving and reacting to whats going on. That is what i was trying to say.

[Fransisco]

Malcolm

Go up to a bone-stock mini-van. Get your buddies to push it back and forth so that the weight transfers from side to side. You'll see that it will have a oscillation period of about 1 second (the weight will shift to the right, then shift back to the left in a time of one second). Now, go up to a lowered car. You need to push it much faster to get it to rock, if you can even rock it at all. The period of oscillation would be about 0.2 of a second.

well I sure we all understand that already, the force required is greater to get a lowered car to oscillate slower, the suspension travel is shorter, but while travelling at a speed to get the force required is very easy, then the car take longer to oscillate.

but this is pointless arguing when we havent determined what speed we're going.
I though we're at the drifting stage of speed, then you will need a good amount of speed to carry the drift.

but you and parry seem to have gone backward past the original subject, from learning to drift to learning to drive..

[malcolm]

dude, you are way off.

a stock vehicle will transfer weight slowly from side to side.

a lowered, stiff vehicle will transfer weight from side to side much faster.

Have you even driven a car quickly with soft suspension? When you turn in, there seems to be a pause where the weight is shifting, and then all of a sudden you have traction and the car turns. With a stiff car, you turn the steering wheel, and the car turns immediately.

This is the same principle I am talking about with drifting! When you feint to the left with soft suspension, you need to wait for the weight to transfer to the right side of the car. When it finally transfers the weight to the right (~0.3 of a second), turn hard to the right so the weight transfers to the left of the car (should take about 0.4 of a second or so for the weight to shift totally). When the weight finally shifts over to the left totally, if you did it hard enough, you will begin to slide.

Now with a stiffer suspension, it will only take about 0.1 of a second to shift the weight to the right hand side, and another 0.1 of a second to transfer it back to the left side of the car in the same situation. The advantage is that you can initiate the drift a LOT faster, and it makes it easier to maintain the drift. However, it makes it much more difficult to initiate the drift, because you need to be much more precise with the steering inputs as well as being very fast to get the weight to shift hard enough to break traction. This set-up usually requires other techniques used along with it, if the suspension is too stiff (like clutch kick, or handbrake).

The difficulty of initiating a drift with stiffer suspension is sometimes too much for some newbies... So slowing things down with stock suspension can help them learn.

but this is pointless arguing when we havent determined what speed we're going. I though we're at the drifting stage of speed, then you will need a good amount of speed to carry the drift.

That whole paragraph was pointless. no matter what speed you are driving, weight transfer rates from one side to the other won't be affected.

[Team503]

Originally posted by Fransisco
Malcolm

well I sure we all understand that already, the force required is greater to get a lowered car to oscillate slower, the suspension travel is shorter, but while travelling at a speed to get the force required is very easy, then the car take longer to oscillate.

but this is pointless arguing when we havent determined what speed we're going.
I though we're at the drifting stage of speed, then you will need a good amount of speed to carry the drift.

but you and parry seem to have gone backward past the original subject, from learning to drift to learning to drive..

physics > y0u.

[AUSSIEDRIFTER]

If even half of the guys in here had even half a clue then they would be dangerous

you are doing very well, rember it is all about fun so get out there and drift



to the rest of you

if you drift then talk

if you dont then stay of the dam forum

[Fransisco]

you're right, my apoligies.
I think I've been driving my car too long, i'm way to used to it I cant imagine doing the same thing to it stock. although I have seen someone doing allright on stock before, he had lsd.

[FC3S-D]

looks nice

[FC3S-D]

ooooh u know what would be tight on that 240 of yours a bodykit and it would looks so awesume

[FC3S-D]

10 thumbs up for the uras bodykit

[FC3S-D]

this one too

[Parry]

Wow.

Less useless, ugly bodykit and more driving and drifting please.

As far as me being a smartass, that's great that you can feel leaves under the tires. Unfortunatly that has no bearing on the discussion at hand, which is being able to feel weight transfer.

[FC3S-D]

UMM. Y CAN'T U stfu AND ENJOY DA POST OK

[variant]

Originally posted by Coiloverkid
everyone knows I'm better than everyone else on this board, so there.

looks like you forgot that I post here =)