(FEEDBACK) FORMULA D ATLANTA May 8-9th 2009

[courantcom]

Victor,

I am truly disappointed with your behavior on this forum once again. I rarely post on here, but there are few threads that just require my attention. I have tried to read all your posts, but since you post so many times it is really hard to keep up.

I am not stating a side on the tire DQ situation, nor do I know all the details to asses a proper judgment, so I am not addressing this issue at this time. But I am reprimanding you on your actions on this forum. I understand once again that you are voicing your opinion on this forum and trying to drop knowledge on this community at the expense of our sport. I believe that your actions are really hurtful to the FD community and not constructive, even though you may feel otherwise. I am not judging your intent, because I am hoping your intent is for positive change, but I would ask you to reconsider your approach. Your words and actions are really bringing a negative picture to drifting and FD and I hope that is not your purpose here. If it is, I think you will really upset a lot of people.

Absolutely not. Despite what you may believe, my intentions are for the GROWTH of the sport and to provide an arena where Formula D can openly display their abilities to be sensitive to the voices of reason which should lead them to more racers in the future. How? Well...perhaps a future racer will also be reading this thread and acknowledge how Formula D is, indeed, sensitive to what's going on with their rules and see how Formula D makes accommodations to what currently seems very very wrong.

As what was said before...everything has "growing pains". Maybe I shouldn't be here...or maybe I have a quiet audience following me finding my posts entertaining.

Nobody wants to come and participate in a series that clearly demonstrates favortism. Nobody wants to come and participate in a series that favors one team over another before the competition even begins. I'm not saying that Formula D practices favortism...nor am I outright saying that they are unfair. Once again, I'm stating that their rulebook is wrong -- again. Here's a chance for Formula D to, perhaps, acknowledge that Pat Mordaunt may have been wrongfully disqualified. He wasn't quietly disqualified. He was openly disqualified.

Jim and Ryan are fantastic people...and they have a great product that several thousand people enjoy. It shows that they have had years of the correct experience to assemble such an event. It also extends past Jim and Ryan as anyone can tell you...it takes more than just two people to assemble such a feat. However...I do believe that they have a flaw in their machine, and it's somewhere in their rulebook tech department. It has nothing to do with their judging, their management, their operations..etc. It's the same flaw that I was trying to highlight LAST year when I couldn't get a satisfactory answer regarding the topic of modified suspension.

I understand that you feel strongly about the current situation with FD, but do you really think that this is the right way to resolve the situation? I wish that you would reconsider, because all my dealings with FD have been pretty fair and they have offered an open door. I have the ability to go to Jim and Ryan (co-owners) and voice my complaints in a professional manner befitting this sport. I think if you have a real issue with whatever you feel is unfair, why not approach them and resolve things like adults. Personally, if I was either one of them, I would be pretty upset at you, but lucky you are dealing with them, not me.

They have my direct phone number as well...and from what I've heard, it's not like they didn't expect this coming with a ruling so severe for a violation that was honestly "questionable" on their own behalf. Correct me if I'm wrong but being disqualified from an event all together is relatively severe. It should be reserved for only the most severe rule infractions.

Also consider a couple of things; first off, you know they can easily kick you off the FD circuit. They could easily show you or anyone else in the series the boot, there are no rules forcing them to allow you access. It's their court, so they make the rules. I doubt they would do that, but why would you even want to be someone they consider a liability or a major pain in the *Censored**Censored**Censored*. Believe it or not, the FD series will go on without you or me, even Ryan or Jim, the sport is above that. If you stopped towing cars to the track, do you think those teams would just stop racing? I am sure they would find a way to the track with our without you.

Another thing, your company Emergency hookers does benefit from this series, does it not? When FD is doing well and there are a lot of teams in search of transport, does it not benefit you directly or indirectly, right? Well I would assume that the future and health of FD would be of best interest to you. Not only have Jim, Ryan and the FD staff been pretty good to me and drifting overall, I would consider them to be my friends and probably yours as well. I would lastly assume that since you know them on a level beyond just business you would want to shed the most positive light and encourage the best outcome for everyone.

Where do I begin. Transporting cars for FD does not make enough money for me to survive. It's work for only 6 months out of the year, and it's only barely enough to pay for my permits, fees, insurance, fuel, and maintenance. The amount that I give back to the drivers I carry completely outweigh the amount of dollars they give me. Why do I do that? I love it. This is where I find sanctuary. ...the long drives, the setup, the tear down, the support. I long for it. You'll see me mostly at the pit, near my truck. I choose not to stay at hotels at the races because I'd rather stand guard next to my truck. This is where I am.

I have a ton of heart that goes into just about anything I do. I get upset when someone is trying to mess with it. ...but I'm also open. If someone finds something wrong with what I'm doing, I address it. I admit fault. I admit shortcomings...but you know what? It doesn't happen again. For example - Once upon a time, my 5 radios weren't enough for my guys to use. What do I have now? I have 16 total radios on board now for just 3 race teams. They are not family frequency radios. They are not talkabouts. They are the real deal...so it's not like I went out and 1/2 assed it. I do the best to provide the best of whatever my money can provide. If I get more money down the line...that just means the support gets that much better.

If I don't find it sanctuary here in FD, I'm sure I can find it in another race series. After other racers find out what I honestly provide, it would be silly to not consider me. I don't want to do that though...because I've felt that I've grown alongside the world of drifting. Like you, I've seen people like Pat Mordaunt basically grow up into this world.

You've seen what I provide. I provide nearly everything...from golf carts to radios to even very hard to find spare sequential transmissions for a GTR out in the middle of nowhere. I have just about everything you can think of. I even carry a sticker machine on board to make last minute stickers for cars and people. I don't even ask for a single dime for it. All stickers I cut at the track are absolutely free...for anyone that knows me enough to ask. I share my resources to other racers. Ask around and find out how many individual racers I have honestly helped through the years and on top of that...how much help. I have priorities to the three racers I carry this year. Aside from that, I have wide open arms to anyone that needs something I can provide.

Pat M, I have seen you since you were probably 16 and grow up before my very eyes. I tease you about being young, but now you are a man. I think you got shafted last year in Atlanta against JR, but you were a man about it. This is a judged sport, and people make good and bad calls and it is an opinion, it’s not perfect. I thought you understood that last year, I believed that you had the heart of a champion; I was very impressed in fact. But I am saddened and disappointed in your behavior this past weekend. I am not sure of all the details and clearly don't understand everything that happened, nor can explain it to you. But I do know you were not acting the way a future champion would, and was that the best way to resolve your situation with FD. I am sure if you were to appeal and explain your side and listen to their story, you might have a better understanding of what is going on. Then you can plead your case to FD and I am sure they would try to resolve this situation in the fairest way possible.

Pat and Victor, please sit back and think about all this before you act. I am sure that you will come to a good conclusion that will benefit yourself and work things out with FD in a professional manner. I think if you keep talking smack about FD, your chances of negotiation and opportunities with them will diminish. I am sure that both of you want to continue working with FD in the future.

Think about it.

Eddie Kim

Eddie, can I ask what would you do if one of your cars were DQ'ed. What if all were DQ'ed. Would you be calm about it and speak to them directly after you have spent thousands of your hard earned dollars just to watch it all go down the drain because a single individual didn't know how to use a durometer properly? Tell me then how calm you perceive yourself to be.

Trust me...as before, there's a LOT more information I have that I know better than to disclose it here, in this forum.

[courantcom]

Sorry everyone. My last post was just long. I wanna get back on topic here...and I know it's not the main "topic" of this thread. But, it's the topic at hand now.

1) Proper durometer testing proceedures...and was Formula D practicing it during the last event that resulted to the disqualification of Pat Mordaunt.

2) Which tires in Appendix C can be used for New Jersey?

[tyndago]

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/SPORT/05...ef=mpstoryview

When Ferrari pulls out of a series, then...

"Ferrari confirms its opposition to the new technical regulations adopted by the FIA and does not intend entering its cars in the 2010 F1 Championship," the team said in a statement on its official Web site."

Hey , they are just one team. Publicly voicing their concerns over rules. They are small time though, right?

[Bebop]

But anyways......































How bout them maxxis boys, Ryan T got first at longbeach, back on the podium for atlanta. And Chris won at atlanta.... and so did Brian Peter on maxxis rubber as well. They also won overseas last month.

Maxxis looks like the tire to beat this year on both sides of the ocean.

[PeakPerformance]

Eddie, can I ask what would you do if one of your cars were DQ'ed. What if all were DQ'ed. Would you be calm about it and speak to them directly after you have spent thousands of your hard earned dollars just to watch it all go down the drain because a single individual didn't know how to use a durometer properly? Tell me then how calm you perceive yourself to be.

Trust me...as before, there's a LOT more information I have that I know better than to disclose it here, in this forum.

I would be mad as hell, and probably want to kick Jim in the head. I wouldn't do it, but I am sure I would be extremely upset. But I would soon realize, either formal protest, work it out or just quit the sport or go to another sanctioning body. Ferrari could quit F1, and go to LeMans or Nascar, I don't know, is that the solution you want?

Victor, what can you do? How about talking to Pat, getting his side of the story and then writing a formal protest to FD. Then set an appointment with Jim and Ryan to discuss this in their office, not putting it on this forum. I know that their are fair, plead your case with Pat, I am sure if the call was unfair they would do something to help out Pat or make it up to him if it was deemed unfair. Your ability to create a good relationship with FD is an asset to Pat and yourself. Discuss like adults the problem and try to find a solution so that things like this don't happen again. You may walk out of the office and not find the solution or an answer to your liking.

No one wants to see Pat leave nor does FD want to kick out Pat. Sean suggested leaving the series or even threatening to leave. If that is the best solution for Pat and yourself, that will be unfortunate but trust me, the series will go on. I don't think that is the best solution, since both of you love the sport.

Figure it out behind closed doors, don't air dirty laundry here. Work it out with FD, trash talking is only going to make it worse for your situation with FD and probably make other teams upset as you taint the series you run in. Imagine if sponsors pull out of drifting because all this is going on, it really won't help anyone.

What if Rockstar or NOS energy pulls out of FD because they are sick of the drama that they perceive in drifting. Imagine what Forsberg or Tanner would say to you or Pat.

[vvtisupra]

in all honesty I think victors rig offers the most bang for the buck. Everytime i'm over there he's got all the tools, and he has the resources. Who else can line up an O.S. Giken gear set for a skyline the same day?

I'm not choosing sides though, but like I voiced before, which everyone seems to overlook as this seems to be the Victor show.

As a technitian with some engineering experience, it is easy to see that there needs to be some variables taken out. It is the only way to properly test different tires for the same criteria. It is the fundamentals of testing.

Remember chemistry class. You need a controlled environment to test compounds for the same criteria. I can't express this enough.

As a fan of Formula D please don't over look my opinions just because I'm not as important.

There needs to be change.

And Eddie I do not know you that well, but of all the teams i would think you'd want to know more answers about tire readings since your teams title sponsor is a tire manufacture and Victor is just a truck driver.

[Justin Banner]

What if Rockstar or NOS energy pulls out of FD because they are sick of the drama that they perceive in drifting. Imagine what Forsberg or Tanner would say to you or Pat.

You kidding me? Have you never heard the phrase "The only bad publicity is NO publicity?" They're probably eating it up so long as they are seen or mentioned!

[cpw28]

Victor,

I am truly disappointed with your behavior on this forum once again. I rarely post on here, but there are few threads that just require my attention.

Think about it.

Eddie Kim

This is coming from the guy who blows his lid everytime things don't go his way. If anyone has a behavior problem, it's you, Mr. Kim.

Formula D Round 1 LB - Spotter's tower

"So what's it gonna be Steph? A drag race or more brake checking?!!" (as if Mr. Papadakis is actually telling Tanner to do either) followed by more smack talking and a charge over to Mr. Papadakis as if you're ready to throw down.

Remember that? Yet YOU are dissappointed in what's going on here? Whaaa? It may not be in public where everyone can see but you really need to check your own behavior before you go spouting off on here as if you're someone with more than just an opinion and your all important attention is "required."

"Think about it"

Victor is simply asking Formula DRIFT to be transparent when it comes to their rules/rulebook/rule enforcement...how is that in anyway out of line? IT SHOULD BE EXPECTED BY EVERYONE INVOLVED WITH THE SERIES!! Of course protesting what happened is a step in the right direction, but bringing the problem out in the open is also part of this process. Especially when it appears to be a reoccurring issue on the part of Formula DRIFT.

My personal opinion is this rule should have never made it into the series in it's current form. If the series is worried about teams altering the tires to gain unfair advantages, they need to test for such alterations BEFORE each tire is used instead of this half @$$ed attempt to monitor tire softness. If Patrick Mordaunt did nothing to alter the tires, why is he being made to suffer? Because this rule that supposedly has "2 years of testing" behind it is poorly written and being enforced poorly! Not acceptable in the least.

Tiregate? You want a scandal do you? How about the info floating on the web that Patrick Mordaunt was DQ'd after beating a DA driver because there were protests filed against him. Apparently round 1 saw virtually all makes of tires having trouble with this new rule. Of course this information was never made public or communicated to the teams however, someone must have known to start protesting at round 2. A DA team perhaps? How would they know to protest? Could they have heard from a DA judge? Soundy sketchy

[my 1 88 u]

Sorry to burst everyones bubble but lets face reality here. Formula Drift is in the business of making money$$$$ Thats all it is. It just happens to be that they make money on drifting.

Sorry to burst your bubble but Ryan, Jim and the rest of the FD staff are not die hard enthusiast like the rest of us. They are businessmen. Smart ones I would say.

Do you think they care about clipping points, angle and speed? Sorry they dont...
While the rest of us are on the edge of our seats cheering for our favorite driver and booing judges for poorly judged runs. They are talking to sponsors, securing media coverage, etc..

If I was them I would not want to piss off my meal tickets like Rhys, Sam, JR and Tanner.
Pat Mondurant? While he is a talented driver and deserves every accolade he receives he offers no financial gain to Formula Drift (No Disrespect to Pat).
Sad to say but Formula Drift is no longer a sport for privateers.

Drifting has officially reached corporate status. Sponsorship dollars are more important than clipping points.

Sad that some of us cant accept that fact.

We all know that Toyo was using a tire softer than specified. Hell so was Hankook and Falken for that matter.

FD knows that it has to enforce the rules but they also do a good job of interpreting the rules. I agree all teams using illegal tires should be DQ from the ATL event. But it wont happen.
Dollars and cents my friends. Remember guys this is a business.

Good luck filling 32 slots with only corporate sponsored drivers.

[courantcom]

I would be mad as hell, and probably want to kick Jim in the head. I wouldn't do it, but I am sure I would be extremely upset. But I would soon realize, either formal protest, work it out or just quit the sport or go to another sanctioning body. Ferrari could quit F1, and go to LeMans or Nascar, I don't know, is that the solution you want?

Victor, what can you do? How about talking to Pat, getting his side of the story and then writing a formal protest to FD. Then set an appointment with Jim and Ryan to discuss this in their office, not putting it on this forum. I know that their are fair, plead your case with Pat, I am sure if the call was unfair they would do something to help out Pat or make it up to him if it was deemed unfair. Your ability to create a good relationship with FD is an asset to Pat and yourself. Discuss like adults the problem and try to find a solution so that things like this don't happen again. You may walk out of the office and not find the solution or an answer to your liking.

Perhaps this was already done...

No one wants to see Pat leave nor does FD want to kick out Pat. Sean suggested leaving the series or even threatening to leave. If that is the best solution for Pat and yourself, that will be unfortunate but trust me, the series will go on. I don't think that is the best solution, since both of you love the sport.

Nobody is suggesting anyone to leave. Everyone is suggesting that Formula D fix their once again broken rule book and procedures. What happened in Atlanta shouldn't have happened. Durometer testing that way shouldn't have happened. Having a racer disqualified because of it shouldn't have happened. IT SHOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED. In fact, Formula D should have allowed Pat to CONTINUE racing until the very end of the event, and then either docked points, fined, or whatever...afterwards. If Pat got 2nd place, and THEN got DQ'ed -- that's better. 3rd will now be 2nd, 4th will now be 3rd, etc.

Either way, I don't think he should have been disqualified because of his alleged infraction. There are extremely more severe cases presently on hand within the Formula D paddock that can deserve such punishment right now...but nobody is saying anything (neither am I).

Figure it out behind closed doors, don't air dirty laundry here. Work it out with FD, trash talking is only going to make it worse for your situation with FD and probably make other teams upset as you taint the series you run in. Imagine if sponsors pull out of drifting because all this is going on, it really won't help anyone.

Earlier, you mentioned that Pat leaving the series won't hurt Formula D. Well...sponsors leaving the series would. I'm relatively certain that Toyo Tires can't be 100% happy right now. I'm also relatively certain that your tire sponsor may just be happy that focus wasn't directed towards them instead. So, if two kinda big tire sponsors retract from Formula D, what then do you think will happen? I'm pretty sure that Formula D would immediately change their rules to be accommodating. Now, do you honestly think things like that happen behind closed doors? No. If a tire manufacturer retracts from Formula D, I'm sure there will be a few press releases about it...one of which will explain exactly why the retraction is being done.

...so this kinda brings it all back to the subject of why Pat Mordaunt was disqualified and not anyone else. Someone in this thread already mentioned that it was perhaps because Pat didn't have "big sponsors" behind him. Well, from the way things look right now, that theory seems to be true. Imagine if Rhys Millen was disqualified? That disqualification may jeopardize future sponsorship from Hyundai, Red Bull, Toyo, etc.

What if Rockstar or NOS energy pulls out of FD because they are sick of the drama that they perceive in drifting. Imagine what Forsberg or Tanner would say to you or Pat.

If they retract from FD because of the drama, it certainly wouldn't be because of me or Pat. Hahaha...I can't believe you're even thinking of it that way. The ONLY reason they will leave is IF AND ONLY IF their cars get disqualified, or if the rules are re-written in a way that their cars can no longer compete. It's obvious that I'm not the only one that knows that...so that's probably why they are more "protected" in this realm of motorsport.

Let me add something here that maybe put things into a different perspective. Let's say Formula D makes a new rule right here right now and bans all engines with more than 6 cylinders. V8's and V10's will not be allowed in New Jersey. What do you think would happen then... Yeah, so you see, Formula D does know better.

[my 1 88 u]

Of course I have heard of the Watergate scandal...but I didn't correlate the two. It's not really the same. I mean, it's almost a well known fact that every single presidential campaign finds a way to break into the opposition's offices...just that Nixon's people got caught, and they made a big deal about it.

Pat wasn't trying to cheat...he wasn't trying to break the rules. In fact, he thought we was within the rules. It's not even the same -- not even close.

"gate" is a euphemism for "scandal".

[courantcom]

I would be mad as hell, and probably want to kick Jim in the head. I wouldn't do it, but I am sure I would be extremely upset.

...but a call like that wouldn't be Jim's call! It would be R-A-N-D-Y'S call... Like I said before. I'm not upset with Jim, or Ryan. I know this end of the deal isn't in their hands because they hired someone else to do that FOR them. Jim and Ryan's expertise doesn't lie deep in the realm of motorsports. They hired someone from SCCA to do it for them. During the "race", Randy has the final say. Period. It says it in the rule book. That one rule gives him more power than the founders of Formula D itself.

1.4 OPERATING AUTHORITY
At race events, the FORMULA DRIFT Chief Steward, aka Race Director (CHIEF STEWARD) has authority for the conduct of all competition aspects of the event.
He/She reports to the President of FORMULA DRIFT, with all other Race Officials reporting to him.

[courantcom]

"gate" is a euphemism for "scandal".

It's not even a scandal, really. It was wrong to test the tires the way they did. It was wrong to disqualify Pat Mordaunt because they tested the tires the way they did.

...if there's any kind of scandal, it's because only Pat got disqualified and nobody else.

[courantcom]

This is coming from the guy who blows his lid everytime things don't go his way. If anyone has a behavior problem, it's you, Mr. Kim.

Formula D Round 1 LB - Spotter's tower

"So what's it gonna be Steph? A drag race or more brake checking?!!" (as if Mr. Papadakis is actually telling Tanner to do either) followed by more smack talking and a charge over to Mr. Papadakis as if you're ready to throw down.

Remember that? Yet YOU are dissappointed in what's going on here? Whaaa? It may not be in public where everyone can see but you really need to check your own behavior before you go spouting off on here as if you're someone with more than just an opinion and your all important attention is "required."

"Think about it"

Victor is simply asking Formula DRIFT to be transparent when it comes to their rules/rulebook/rule enforcement...how is that in anyway out of line? IT SHOULD BE EXPECTED BY EVERYONE INVOLVED WITH THE SERIES!! Of course protesting what happened is a step in the right direction, but bringing the problem out in the open is also part of this process. Especially when it appears to be a reoccurring issue on the part of Formula DRIFT.

My personal opinion is this rule should have never made it into the series in it's current form. If the series is worried about teams altering the tires to gain unfair advantages, they need to test for such alterations BEFORE each tire is used instead of this half @$$ed attempt to monitor tire softness. If Patrick Mordaunt did nothing to alter the tires, why is he being made to suffer? Because this rule that supposedly has "2 years of testing" behind it is poorly written and being enforced poorly! Not acceptable in the least.

Tiregate? You want a scandal do you? How about the info floating on the web that Patrick Mordaunt was DQ'd after beating a DA driver because there were protests filed against him. Apparently round 1 saw virtually all makes of tires having trouble with this new rule. Of course this information was never made public or communicated to the teams however, someone must have known to start protesting at round 2. A DA team perhaps? How would they know to protest? Could they have heard from a DA judge? Soundy sketchy

On top of that, Rhys knew to be on a different tire towards the end of Round 2 in Atlanta. He was on Toyo T1-R's at the end. See...this is what happens when too many "closed door" meetings happen. Some people get a "message", when others don't. So now what. WHAT TIRES CAN BE USED FOR NEW JERSEY? I think EVERY RACER needs to know this, so they can start making plans to have them in time.

[my 1 88 u]

It's not even a scandal, really. It was wrong to test the tires the way they did. It was wrong to disqualify Pat Mordaunt because they tested the tires the way they did.

...if there's any kind of scandal, it's because only Pat got disqualified and nobody else.

which makes it "[a] kind of scandal", hence the "gate"