Drifting Pretty; (LA Weekly Article)

[Feint]

I honestly try to steer clear of arguments,but lets stop making something out of nothing.There's a difference between healthy arguments and just plain stupid.The truth is,quite a bit of this is a whole lot out of nothing.I'm guilty of fueling somet hings,I admit that.It's best if we just avoid the personal attacks though.Were all better than that.

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by BensonHsu
you might think my words are of an eliteist nature... or maybe has a demanding tone to it... the reason is because i think it's a very serious issue and also because it has to do with the future of our growing scene.

to me, if drifting is closely tied with street racing, we might lose everything that many of us have tried to develop over the course of the past 4-6 years. we are trying to be legitimate and professional for the sake of our scene's growth... to me it's important, and thats why touge driving should never be condoned.

from my point of view, it's a statement of - i went through it so you guys don't have to... there is nothing eliteist about that.

i agree though, that this thread is way off topic at this point.

I have to admit, we have been argueing but i like this post alot. This is what i was hoping for to be honest. I apologise for grouping you in with other posters.

And i have to admit as a moderator i like to see this kind of stuff. Personal down to earth warnings and cautions. eh.. sorry im trying to keep my moderation out of me in these kind of arguement threads..

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by '97 S14 SE Turb
If you can't make the distinction between an insult or a comment.

Well, guess it's pointless to have a decent conversation going here...

No where do I claim I'm superior. You are making all the wrong assumptions. Digging a hole for your own discussion...

Insulting my intelegence...

Lets face it, If i cant tell the difference between a comment and an insult. Yet people took great offence to referring to my self and friends as "drifting ugly" well i dont know what to say about that man.

['97 S14 SE Turb]

Doesn't help this website's image where the moderator is making all the insults and personal attacks.

And because I've stated that statement before, said moderator gets insulted... Dunno...

The bottom line, make a distinction between illegal and legal activities....

There are many of us out there trying to help shape this sport into the proper image etc. I can honestly say, Mav1178, Benson, myself, and many others are on the same page regarding this subject.

It's not about who's better etc. We could freaking careless... That's not what the sport needs.

So, because some of us decides to be upfront and let people know, we get attacked as elitist? Think about the behavior behind that attack...

So, don't be stupid, and do the right thing. Stay off the streets...

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by mav1178
Generalizations suck, don't use it.

I drive for myself. I paid for basically everything on my car and will fund my own entry into Formula D, unless my employer 5Zigen USA wishes to fund my entry.

Perhaps I can become like Kazama (employee of Kei Office by day, drifter by nite).

And please do not compare USA drivers to Japan drivers. They have their own car culture there and we have our own here.

-alex

I hate to post multiple times in a row, but i didnt see this until afterwords..

Well thats good man. I hope to see you do well (i know we've been argueing, but i really dont wish anyone anything but good wishes) But now we are way way off topic of even the flame war.. I think im going to go ahead and close this thread anyways in a bit considering its not longer about drifting pretty. If anyone wants to start a thread on the topic of Illegal street drifting feel free to!

[nissanguy_24]

Okay, You guys cool if i lock this now? i think its ending on a decent note

['97 S14 SE Turb]

Originally posted by nissanguy_24
Insulting my intelegence...

Lets face it, If i cant tell the difference between a comment and an insult. Yet people took great offence to referring to my self and friends as "drifting ugly" well i dont know what to say about that man.

But I won't insult your spelling... lol...

My spelling sckus too! lol...

How about this, let's just call it a joke placed in the wrong context...

Let's all agree about one thing. Doing the right thing and keeping it legal...

Ok?

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by '97 S14 SE Turb
But I won't insult your spelling... lol...

My spelling sckus too! lol...

How about this, let's just call it a joke placed in the wrong context...

Let's all agree about one thing. Doing the right thing and keeping it legal...

Ok?

Also to be fair im sure all of our tempers are running high... its hard to write perfectly in such a situation...

Yes i agree i much prefer it all be legal and legit.. hell its even the offical stance of this website.


This is my last post.. guys post yours and tell me if your cool to close it..



EDIT: being closed right now.. If you guys have any thing further to say just PM me.

['97 S14 SE Turb]

Yes, let's agree to disagree on other points.

But, lets agree on the key point. Making sure the sport stays alive and keeping things legal...

[Ghost of Duluth]

You know whats really funny? Everyone insulted everyone over something that wasn't even an insult. If you don't want to do it on the street, don't. If you want to, be safe. Benson, you are good, but you can't tell people how to avoid making mistakes. you and I both know that people won't learn until they do it themselves, that's how we did it and our fathers before us. The best you can so is offer your advice and then look away. 914 se, you were one of the slyest insulters in this thread. You leaped headfirst into the fray and insulted and jibed instead of using reason. Give it a rest.

You guy's got all up in arms about something trivial. 12 pages of nonsense. It was even more ludicrous after one of the DP girls came on here, said "as long as it's not in a rude tone, it isn't that bad" and you all STILL wouldn't let it go. Male ego's are dangrous. I know, I let mine slip out every now and then.

As for the wannabe's. I think you can all get right off that train right now. Cause all of you guy's wouldn't have a single freaking thing except some bent control arms and busted front ends if there wasn't a fan base for this sport to thrive on. So you all best LOVE your fan's whether you think they are wannabe's or not. Cause if the fans drop off, your ride goes straight in the toilet. Believe that. YOU are the ones who need to be setting an example here, not the fans.

I stayed out of this one because of the way I felt. I let things calm down and now I add to it. If you can't handle people poking fun at you or your organization, then get out of Drifting and all motorsports right now. Motorsport and especially Drifting are one of the most heatedly debated sports on the planet. Drifting even more so since it is youth oriented and everyone likes to talk the poop about who's faster and blah and blah. So you need some thick skin to run at the top. Heck I don't even consider any of you guys pro's anyway. To me, you guy's have a much higher place than that. You guy's are pioneers, forefathers in a sense. It is you all who will make or break Drifting in the US. A huge responsibility falls on your shoulders. When American drifting becomes it's own entity and can stand on it's own without Japanese drifters needing to be there to draw sizable crowds, then you guys will be pro's.

So chill the attitudes and the seperatism. If you've noticed, a lot of people here respect what you say and put you and your thoughts on a higher plane than everyone else, so if someone disagree's with you then it is up to you, as a pioneer, to take the high road and quell the arguement. If you are right, then reason and experience will win out. If they won't listen to that, then back out. You need to be the bigger person since you are the experienced ones.

No one becomes a driver at the level that you guys do by being stupid. I agree with alot of the stuff you say in here Benson, but I don't agree with some of it to. I think after reading this post, you can see what that is. You guy's need to remember, as everyone here does too, we were ALL at the bottom when we began. So treat new people to the sport like an old dog treats a puppy. Give it some room to grow, deal with it nipping at you and lick it's wounds when it gets hurt. This community has the potential to be a great community. Let it grow instead of bashing it's head in.

[GoukiS14]

['97 S14 SE Turb]

Reasoning doesn't go far when the audience doesn't even know what's right from wrong. (Not just this tread, it's simple human behavior.)

Personally, I don't care about the fan base. Don't need the fan base to support what I do already before drifting became the latest fad.

Seriously, rethink about how it really affect those of us that have been playing with our cars before drifting hit.

I actually find it better before drifting got huge. Less shady eyes eyeing my heavily modded car.

Now, security is an issue, so is police enforcement.

Too many people not knowing better doing stupid things on the street. So much for fan base.

As for telling some of us to have thicker skin, well, you better heed the same advice as well... Simple comments about illegal drifiting gets the socalled fan base up in arms...

And if you find my comments insulting, well, even more reason go grow thicker skin. I tell it like it is. I don't sugar coat anything. Don't like it? Don't agree? Fine. That's your entitled opinion. I have mine.

[Ghost of Duluth]

Exactly right. Your comments don't affect me at all. You are also right about the before and after of Drifting. Only thing is, some of the people like their sponsers and would like to keep them. If Drifting falls out, so will the sponsers and money and product developement. All the good will leave and all the bad will stay. So get used to it cowboy, the police presence and shady characters will always be looking at your heavily modded car. As for thick skin, I got some of the thickest skin on these forums because it's all talk. Everyone here is a talker, you included, me included until anyone see's either of us drive. Same with everyone else. But the difference is that I don't personally insult people, you do. Your entitled to your own opinion but when you back it up with insults, you're an *Censored**Censored**Censored*.

Like I said, everyone is a talker. It's easy to sit back and insult people over the internet, but at an event, if someone decks you in the mouth for insulting them on the internet, what are you gonna do then? Think about that before you lay the e-smackdown on someone. Some people don't let things like that die when the computer goes off. It's simple respect. If you don't agree with them, great, i'm all for that. But don't put them down while you are trying to make everyone see your point because that makes you look bad. Yea I know, you could care less what people think, but if thats really the way you thought, then you sure wouldn't be posting here would you?

All i'm trying to say is, make your point with facts and you will get more respect. Whether you want or care about that respect is up to you. If you don't then it's real easy to not type www.drifting.com into your address bar and not come here. If you get paid too much during your day job to turn "pro" then all of this shouldn't concern you anyways, especially if you want it to stay underground. Your points are good, I agree with them, just don't agree with the way they were put out and the person you stepped on to get them out. You ideas on the sport are awesome. I don't think that they will come out that way, but we can dare to dream that things will be kept off the street. In the real world, it won't be. It will go to the street just like every import fad has. We can only hope that it is taken to the street in at least some form of a safe manner. As safe as it can be on the street.

[nissanguy_24]

Ghost clear out your IMs

['97 S14 SE Turb]

The thing is, I'm not for the illegal activities. I've always stuck to the track/circuit. Never been about the underground thingy.

As for the insults, I don't insult people. I don't call people names or what ever. I've never made a statement that states "you are a ______." If I want to make an insult, I would've done it directly, and that's a fact. Where as you've directly made an insult at me.

So please review what you said about that subject. Especially where you said you don't personally insult people. So, can we trust your words?

and if anyone ever took internet discussions personally and initiates a physical act in real life, I'm sure I'll get the proper authorities to take care of that. Like you and I say. It's all talk.

One thing I have to say, sometimes a heavy handed approach like I'm taking makes everyone think. Shakes things up a bit.

As for seeing me drive, go pick up the option video covering the D1 driver search last year. I'm on there... Their (judges) critique were: "Very slowry..." lol.... (facing that concrete wall with my car made me realize how much sentimental attachment I still have of it.).

I don't proclaim to be the best driver, nor am I a beginner driver. I've been in motorsports since '97, doing open track events. I can be confident about my own driving skill when it comes to grip. Drift, for me, has always been an excuse to learn about the limits of my car. I know enough to have a fast drift line. I'm not good at the showy stuff yet. It's all highspeed, low slip angle with super grippy tires.

I've done RallyX before as well. Sort of fun.

I'm a huge proponent of professional level drifting. I have friends that are professionals in this sport. And soon, I would be helping with the race car buildup. Eventually, getting a ride with this team.

Those are my facts... I'm not a dreamer. I'm a realist. I'm not uneducated. I'm well read. I'm not inexperienced. I'm not a beginner.

anyway, don't make claims that I make insults when you contradict your own statement. (watch, this statement would then somehow be views as an insult to you...)

And like I said to Nissanguy_24, lets agree against the illegal aspect of this sport. It's bad for everyone.