(TV DEAL) D1GP Signs with FOX - Largest Media Deal in the History of Drifting

[sweetcarz02]

Not every drifter has come from a grassroots drifting background in Formula D.

A- Rhys Millen
B- Rich Rutherford
C- Sam Hubinette
D- Tanner Foust
E- Stephan Verdier

[fast-finn]

Thank you for the explanation but I don't think I was confused reading what you wrote. I just need clarification on what you said earlier from the following quote (check the second to last sentence):



Fast-finn:
No need for name calling. If you read with your head and eyes rather than with your emotion, you'll see what I'm talking about. Read the second to last sentence above from what FD wrote earlier. A sincere advise for you: it's ok to be angry but when you hold your tongue on name calling, you'll get further in life.

I wasn't calling you names?? I wasn't even commenting on your post? re read the blocks and you see who was commenting on who

[fast-finn]

Not every drifter has come from a grassroots drifting background in Formula D.

A- Rhys Millen
B- Rich Rutherford
C- Sam Hubinette
D- Tanner Foust
E- Stephan Verdier

Thats right, my bad.
So Andretti is not so bad choice after all since seems to me that you just named the top 3 drivers in FD? select A,C and D. with roadracing background and yet they somehow managed to understand drifting and dominate it.

[Slapshotnerd]

i don't think Rhys, Tanner, and Sam had 'road racing' backgrounds... I'm pretty sure Rhys and Tanner were both more on the "Rally" train than on road racing, and sam is more from the stunt driving / ice racing background.

[Al]

Thats right, my bad.
So Andretti is not so bad choice after all since seems to me that you just named the top 3 drivers in FD? select A,C and D. with roadracing background and yet they somehow managed to understand drifting and dominate it.

yo niglet, please get a knife in your kitchen and fall on it.

Thanks
The Readers

[fast-finn]

yo niglet, please get a knife in your kitchen and fall on it.

Thanks
The Readers

You so funny! and original! Did you come up with that line all by yourself?
Is that avatar picture your self-portrait?

[gigglesnirt]

GOD you are dumb! Stop commenting when you dont know what you are talking about.

First not a single D1 license is or has been given out at the these grassroots events. They get a D1 Underground licenses which allows them to bypass the amateur qualifying and try to go and get the real D1 license. FD gave anyone who showed up to their events the first year a change to drift???? So what is your point. Without the grassroots the sport is DONE!!!!

Second Every single driver in FD came from grassroots and they have made it big you are very naive thinking that there is no challengers in the Grassroots.
D1 drivers are humans just like the rest of us and every horse has a rider.

Third D1 invented the sport NOT FD or NOPI or you and yet you are watching FD in US? FD's in nothing original they copied D1 and ran with it. Dont get me wrong FD has done an awesome job in US compared to previous years by D1, but this time they have a ligimate change with the right people doing it.
So lets hope that you are 100% wrong and the D1GP US will happen.

Since I for one would love to see team orange tandem battles!

First every driver in FD was grassroots at some point yes, but look how it has evolved. Back in 04-05 random guys were able to come from grassroots events and go up against top dollar machines and do well. Guys like Pfeiffer and Forseberg and many others, but today it takes a lot more time. Pawlak has been in the game for a long time and he is still not at the level that the top drivers in FD are at. The sport progressed people can't just jump in anymore and be one of the top dogs.

And I'm pretty sure random kids screwing around on the streets created the sport of drifting. D1 may have made it big, but it was not the first competition to come around. On top of that the D1 USA series is a completely different animal, different management, and from what I and many others see it just looks like a money hungry group that wants in on the US market. Above all this, according to your logic of "d1 invented this sport watch that", Carl Benz was the first to create a vehicle with an internal combustion engine, but should the only cars out there be mercedes?

[FreeThinker]

Here's a soundtrack to enjoy while you read my post: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A3zetSuYRg

You know, I don’t want to be one to criticize how people promote their product, but it’s hard to sit by and say nothing when D1 seems to continually over-hypes their releases that really have little substance or foundation.

You don’t want to be the one to criticize? It seems you are the main one putting in the effort.

Let me be the first to congratulate D1 on the deal. It’s great their content will be more than just DVD's. Now….

I think your congratulations are hollow and it’s transparent to most. You have historically changed your event dates to conflict with other drift events dates, D1 most recently included. So lets stop with your lies…

First, this deal is a syndication deal. For anyone that knows TV, in short syndication is when you give your programming to a syndication company and they get it out to all the affiliates of a particular network. In this case it is Fox. Fox has about 200 affiliates of which 180 are not owned or operated by them. (You can very easily google this if you want to fact check) What this means is that when the affiliates have a time slot they will put the programming in. It could be at 12 Noon or 2am. Could be 2pm in Nashville and 5am in Los Angeles. A fan of D1 will have to check their local listings to see when the show will air. This model is not particularly appealing for event properties like drifting per say because you really can’t sell a consistent schedule or build audience where you have pre-programmed air times. For sponsors, teams and drivers this is a lesser deal than a real network deal. We have consulted teams, sponsor and drivers on this is the past and know consensus on this platform. Coincidentally, TWI which is a company owned by IMG has the largest volume of TV content published ever and are very well aware of how syndication deals work. In some cases they are great, but for event properties, not so much, Especially when you are only talking 45M homes.

It is clear from your statement you think we are all idiots? From what I read this is a FOX Network Television deal, network television is free to anyone who has a TV in America, not the case with Cable TV. This could be the “American Idol” show for drifting? This kind of exposure is amazing for the sport, sponsors and all drivers involved. Stop trying to twist things, again!

Secondly, when you say “The largest media deal in history” some fact checking may be in order. D1 says 45 million homes in their own release will be their reach. Ok, well two years ago FD was on ESPN 2. ESPN 2 is in 91 million homes. Last year FD was on Speed. Speed is in over 70 million homes.

Again maybe you are unaware or you are purposefully misleading people. Broadcast television is a bigger deal than any Cable TV deal, period. There are only five major broadcast networks, and Fox Television is one of them. Cable TV on the other hand could have hundreds of smaller networks, just compare how many channels you have on cable to regular TV and there is the difference. You trying to minimize this is funny. ITS A BIG DEAL, A HUGE DEAL IN FACT!

Next, not only is this not the largest media deal for drifting ever, it has also been done before. NOPI had a syndication deal for their show very similar to this. You might even search this forum and find the release on it, which if I remember correctly may have event been more homes than 45 million. Remember Driftcar America? Well they tried this too: http://www.driftlive.com/dl/2006/dri...n-with-fox-tv/

Look how similar the two releases are. This is nothing new or unprecedented.

This link tells me nothing?

To date there has not been a bigger TV deal than what FD has put together. This last year in the US we were on Speed and rated very well for a property that had zero promotion from the network. As a matter of fact we out performed shows on Speed that were extremely well promoted by the network. Again, Speed has 70+ million homes. As of Jan1, 2009, our international distribution topped 200 million homes from Russia to South America. These are facts backed up by documentation, not a boast.

Again the numbers you are throwing out seem great to those who are dumb, you cant fool us! Household numbers who cares! What really matters, is how many people are “watching” the shows. Better to be on a small network with 1-million viewers than “200-Trillion households” and in reality only 200,000 watching. How many viewers do FD shows get, please share with us? This information is very important to me, as a driver and for my sponsors…

Again, I don’t want to criticize people on how to promote their product, but I definitely see some big over-hyping and not as much transparency in some respects.

But you are the one to criticize, and you are doing your best to manipulate the facts and the people here, which is becoming even more transparent as I read your posting…You know nothing about transparency, twisted truths more like.

When you clearly are not being transparent with reality I believe you do a disservice to the community as a whole. I hope D1 doesn’t think that people in this community can’t see the truth for themselves. If anything, people in this community are some of the most informed, intelligent people I know.

You are not the transparent one here. People are well informed today and your response is becoming very clear to most, you are only doing your company a disservice with this childish attack. Drivers simply need as much exposure for their sponsors as possible in order to survive FD or D1 I don’t care because it doesn’t matter.

I see things like their attempt to give as many licenses to amateur drivers as they can to fill their ranks, meanwhile that platform is not a meaningful way to develop a series, run or oversee a proper foundation for a ladder to the pro ranks. While this is a great way to keep D1 in the news and grant licenses, this was tried and shown to not work well over 5 years ago. They announced a prize packaged that when you look at the details it is substantially less than ours and unrealistic when you factor the number of drivers needed to even get close. They announced this cool D1 “Dojo” deal with huge grandstands yet their ticketing for the event makes no mention of grandstand seating.

You should put as much attention on your own business, as you are on attacking other companies and misleading people on this forum. Your judges and results are sometimes questionable at best and many drivers have openly spoken about it in the press, most recently from the Red Bull World Championships in Super Street. At least D1 is addressing these concerns to have a less biased more accurate computer based system of sorts. Where is your unbiased judging system for 2009? Still have three dudes eyeballing 50 cars with millions of dollars at stake…sounds risky to me. FD needs to move with the times and “get with it”.

One would think this would be a critical element for fans to know what they are buying. What’s going happen if people show-up and it is not as they have hyped it to be? In short, the new group has shown to be creative and proactive but I am concerned that the goods being sold may not be real and with regards to their TV release it displays this point perfectly. You begin to ask yourself, why hasn’t one single top FD driver signed up for their event? If they do build their dojo, where are the sponsors paying for it? Not one single sponsor announcement yet. I submit the reason why is drivers teams and sponsor in this community are informed and have been doing this for a very long time. People know what is what and understand reality.

Sounds like you are doing your best to instill fear and doubt in people, a tactic typically used when you're uncertain of your own future. I just checked the FD website nothing new there, no new sponsors, no details about a network TV deal or even cable for that matter? As you said people are well informed these days but I see no new exciting information about FD?

Rich Goodwin is quoted, “The partnership between FOX Station Group, GPI and D1GP USA will be monumental for the sport of drifting in the United States. For the first time, the eyes of the nation will be focused on the drifting world,” said Rich Goodwin, president of D1GP USA. “Not only will die-hard fans be able to catch all of the action, but millions of people who have never been exposed to drifting will have a chance to see the best drivers in the world going head to head.” To be honest that could be really read as: For the first time ever D1 content will be seen on a distribution platform about half of that of what has been done before pitting top D1 drivers against an assortment of lesser experienced amateur drivers and showcasing a potentially lopsided competition that would certainly not be a showcase of drivers on a more equal playing field like that in FD. The only asset that D1 has that FD does not are drivers that make up the D1 brand, and that’s ok with us. To date, we welcome those drivers with open arms if they were allowed to come. Additionally, we openly support FD drivers competing in D1 Japan with no qualms or any negative remarks. Go Juice Box!

A very negative and narrow-minded response, not a good position to take in this economy when everyone is struggling to just survive. I think some assets as you call them, are that D1 has is a FOX Network TV deal along the worlds best drifters coming over to compete in heavily populated downtown US markets with a less biased, more accurate computer judging system! It just seems like a good recipe to me, and I think you do also which is why you are attacking them publicly here…

Congrats on the deal, that’s awesome.

Really…or is this a stab in the back?

I just think the D1 cause is served better if these releases are what they are and not what they want people to think they are. When you say things like “game over” and the “biggest media deal in the history of drifting” you imply certain things that really just fuel animosity especially when they cannot factually be backed up. We welcome friendly competition but lets try to be real with who has what and who is doing what. We will gladly congratulate you on any announcements that clearly state reality and that come to fruition.

If you really want any cause to be served better, how about you stop changing your dates to conflict with other drift events, and then stop taking money away from drivers. Boasting about all the tire companies you roped in over the years is great for your personal ego but very selfish and short sighted. The one single thing “more than anything else” drivers need is the support from these same tire companies and you single-handedly wipe out those budgets, well done! I applaud you for continually seizing money and opportunities away from drivers, how much longer can you pull the wool over our eyes is my real question.

Except for the few top FD drivers I am not sure how FD benefits the entire drift industry as a whole. Narrow-minded, shortsighted views, continual fear mongering and event date changing not to mention manipulating the truth (as proven above) has apparently become FD’s business model. Now that you have perceived D1 as a new competitor you are thrashing around like a spoiled brat. Don’t change dates; let drivers decide where to be for the benefit of the sport, and not just for your benefit.

Competition is healthy for everyone involved on many levels. Imagine if there were only one car manufacture, I would hate to see what they dictated we all needed to drive. So let the teams, drivers and sponsors decide and stop this mini dictatorship it’s not healthy for anyone. Let D1 do their thing and you do yours, you claim to be the leader so start acting like one.

[fast-finn]

First every driver in FD was grassroots at some point yes, but look how it has evolved. Back in 04-05 random guys were able to come from grassroots events and go up against top dollar machines and do well. Guys like Pfeiffer and Forseberg and many others, but today it takes a lot more time. Pawlak has been in the game for a long time and he is still not at the level that the top drivers in FD are at. The sport progressed people can't just jump in anymore and be one of the top dogs.

And I'm pretty sure random kids screwing around on the streets created the sport of drifting. D1 may have made it big, but it was not the first competition to come around. On top of that the D1 USA series is a completely different animal, different management, and from what I and many others see it just looks like a money hungry group that wants in on the US market. Above all this, according to your logic of "d1 invented this sport watch that", Carl Benz was the first to create a vehicle with an internal combustion engine, but should the only cars out there be mercedes?

Absolutely the only cars should be Mercedes and BMW, I could live with that. And it wasnt my logic it was yours you said
"Now if someone did something smart and say, tried a different kind of series, say team drift, then you have something different to FD and something I would watch alongside it. But doing the same thing as a major organization already does better is not going to work."

Now Mercedes is a lot better car than Dodge Caravan and yet some people still buy them?
So competition is not bad for it, it is good for it this makes the event organizers bring their A game and who benefits? the drivers and the spectators.

[OldSkool510]

Damn Freethinker does not eff around. It's been almost an hour and still no response from FD. I wonder if FD is now having second thoughts about responding to this topic. What happened to the "Code Red drifting.com forum module?"

[SSmith]

FreeThinker, you read my mind. I certainly feel the same way when I read FD responses. D1 has taken a lot of punches in this forum by D1 haters but they've done the right thing by not responding. Let's see how the new D1 management operates and assume their innocence until proven guilty and not the other way around.
If FD thinks they're good then they shouldn't worry what D1 is doing or saying.
Just like any other sports, the best athlete never worries what others are doing, he has the confidence and just needs to concentrate on staying on top. It seems that it's not the case with FD. Responding the way they did about D1's TV deal shows you that they're probably worry of losing ground to D1.
It's an exciting year for drifting despite the bad economy we're in and we should be thankful that D1 is still trying to develop the sports through innovative ideas such as D1 underground, electronic scoring to maintain and probably create more public interests.
Also, with D1's TV deal, I hope it'll translate to bigger prize money for the drivers so they can earn a living doing what they love.

[fast-finn]

Damn Freethinker does not eff around. It's been almost an hour and still no response from FD. I wonder if FD is now having second thoughts about responding to this topic. What happened to the "Code Red drifting.com forum module?"

Truth hurts! Thats what happened.

[Formula D]

Freethinker,

As you are well aware I'm sure, one of the attributes of this thing we call the internet is that one can post information with little or no filter for truth or accuracy. So when a representative from D1 comes on and claims that "biggest deal in drifting history" and then ends with a "game over" exclamation, not only are the posting something completely dishonest it's also provoking. You will never see "Game Over" type stuff with us.

So for us, we have two choices: We can sit back and say nothing and let the thread run it's course or we can answer and go from there. If we sit back and say nothing, eventually the thread gets to a point where someone calls out "I wonder what Formula D has to say." This is historically true if you go back and look at the 5 years of threads that are not too dissimilar to this. Being that we like having an open forum with fans of drifting, we respond. So in the end, it's respond sooner or later, but it all deduces to the exact same net result either way.

I think your congratulations are hollow and it’s transparent to most. You have historically changed your event dates to conflict with other drift events dates, D1 most recently included. So lets stop with your lies…

I can't expect you to understand how booking venues works so I can't be mad at your inability to understand that 9 times out of 10 we do not decide what date we get from a track, they basically tell us. Furthermore, if you can point out to me one example, even one, where we intentionally put an event on a date with another series, please do. Even more so, what dates are we conflicting with anyone this year? Please enlighten me. The fact is it would be so stupid for us to intentionally book dates that conflict with not only other drifting events but almost any event in general. Ultimately doing that just hurts us and anyone involved in the series...drivers, team, sponsor.... and we would have to answer to all of them about why we would do something like. That's just dumb decision making.That's like event planning 101. I am surprised that you don't get that.

It is clear from your statement you think we are all idiots? From what I read this is a FOX Network Television deal, network television is free to anyone who has a TV in America, not the case with Cable TV. This could be the “American Idol” show for drifting? This kind of exposure is amazing for the sport, sponsors and all drivers involved. Stop trying to twist things, again!

Look, the bottom line on this issue (because if you don't understand syndication deals, it's pointless to go in circles) is that this is NOT a network wide deal. This is a deal where certain regional Fox O&O stations will broadcast their show. By D1's own admission they will reach 45 million homes. You do realize that using your own logic and saying, "what I read this is a FOX Network Television deal, network television is free to anyone who has a TV in America, not the case with Cable TV" that Fox is in more than 45 million homes? You do realize that, right? Fox is available in about 96 percent of US households. Last time I checked there are more than 45 millions homes in America. You say you are a driver, so why don't you go and talk to other drivers who have been in the game for a while and have them tell you what they know about all this. Don't take it from me. Look, I'm being honest when I say this is a good thing for D1. It's just not the biggest deal in drifting as they stated.

Again maybe you are unaware or you are purposefully misleading people. Broadcast television is a bigger deal than any Cable TV deal, period. There are only five major broadcast networks, and Fox Television is one of them. Cable TV on the other hand could have hundreds of smaller networks, just compare how many channels you have on cable to regular TV and there is the difference. You trying to minimize this is funny. ITS A BIG DEAL, A HUGE DEAL IN FACT!

Again, we have now established the reach of this TV deal and it is 45 million homes. This is not a network wide program.

This link tells me nothing?

What you would have seen is a press release from Driftlive about Driftcar America and there TV deal announcement which is exactly the same as this deal. Even the same network. It is somewhat coincidental however that now that page is dead after the link was live when I found it. Either way, this can be verified by anyone in this industry at the time.

Again the numbers you are throwing out seem great to those who are dumb, you cant fool us! Household numbers who cares! What really matters, is how many people are “watching” the shows. Better to be on a small network with 1-million viewers than “200-Trillion households” and in reality only 200,000 watching. How many viewers do FD shows get, please share with us? This information is very important to me, as a driver and for my sponsors…

So again, what side did you want to argue for? The, "this is a network deal so it's huge" or the, "it's all about audience" deal."? Since we have established this is not a network wide deal, I can agree with you when I say, yes it is all about audience. There is really no where to go with this because none of their shows have aired so you can't make an assessment and if you are team, driver or sponsor in the series, our ratings info is readily available to you. The bottom line is you don't retain sponsors or carry driver support like we have or get access to network wide deals if you don't prove yourself. Remember it's not like there haven't been other options out there before...

D1 w/KTC
D1 with Drift Buffet
D1 w/ Hideo
D1 with Moto and Mike Mucklin
Traxion
Hard Drive Live/Primedia/WDC
NOPI Drift
Drift America
WDS

In that list above are some very skilled, talented and hard working people, yet none of those series or events except NOPI could really get off the ground or keep going. Why? Well, I'm sure each reason is different. And why through all of that has FD grown? Have we just been lucky or do you think that maybe, just maybe we have made some good decisions and listened to what teams, sponsors and drivers wanted. I would just tell you to use your common sense here.

Had D1 not said, "Biggest TV Deal in Drifting History" we would not have even responded until asked to, period. Saying what they said is "fooling" people bro.

But you are the one to criticize, and you are doing your best to manipulate the facts and the people here, which is becoming even more transparent as I read your posting…You know nothing about transparency, twisted truths more like.

There is a HUGE difference than painting a picture of reality and manipulating facts. If you can share one example that you think I manipulated, please do so. And do so with something that can be backed up with evidence like I have submitted.

You are not the transparent one here. People are well informed today and your response is becoming very clear to most, you are only doing your company a disservice with this childish attack. Drivers simply need as much exposure for their sponsors as possible in order to survive FD or D1 I don’t care because it doesn’t matter.

Drivers do need as much exposure as possible so when you divide a market place with competing entities you actually reduce the exposure over the long term. Again, if I am wrong why do the sponsors, teams and drivers agree? Can you answer me that? I'd be happy to continue to extend transparency to you if you'd take up the offer. My office phone number is 562.901.2600 x.5 and I'd be happy to discuss all of these items at length if you'd like even as we are crazy busy approaching the first event of the year. What you will find as most people that work with us know, we can be reached easily and can openly and honestly discuss issues.

You should put as much attention on your own business, as you are on attacking other companies and misleading people on this forum. Your judges and results are sometimes questionable at best and many drivers have openly spoken about it in the press, most recently from the Red Bull World Championships in Super Street. At least D1 is addressing these concerns to have a less biased more accurate computer based system of sorts. Where is your unbiased judging system for 2009? Still have three dudes eyeballing 50 cars with millions of dollars at stake…sounds risky to me. FD needs to move with the times and “get with it”.

I'm not sure where you have been, but at minimum D1 gets just as much flack for judging as we do. I mean why is D1 known as the WWE of drifting? For both us and D1 I think some of the flack is unwarranted, but in anything subjective that is what you are going to get. Red Bull is a perfect example of pretty transparent judging and most domestic and international teams concur with that I'm not sure what info you are talking about. 3 dudes eye balling cars? That's funny man. You never have seen how the system works have you? So if we are three dudes, is D1 one dude? Driftbox type items has been around for a while and it actually can cause more controversy than less. Again, follow up with you fellow drifters on this. But I will say and acknowledge that GPS and data boxes may have some valid uses in drifting and it could be a future element for live event and TV. We actually invested in testing a system over the past few years and why we know some of the applications are great and others actually cause more issues.

Sounds like you are doing your best to instill fear and doubt in people, a tactic typically used when you're uncertain of your own future. I just checked the FD website nothing new there, no new sponsors, no details about a network TV deal or even cable for that matter? As you said people are well informed these days but I see no new exciting information about FD?

Not instilling fear and doubt, more like seeing a calling a spade a spade.
In this market place it is all about retention, but even with around a 90 percent retention rate for us we are still adding new sponsors. Snap-On just came on as a major sponsor and we are supporting now 1 but 2 titles from EA this year as well. Lets not forget we are being exclusively supported by Hyundai for Rhys' new car. It's pretty lame to get into a "hey look at us" chest pounding match on a forum like this, but as we re-skin our site and get closer to the season more new stuff will be launched. If you missed it some of the recent updates include:

- Top 32 Tandem (this helps lower ranked teams with more exposure. Something you've been critical of)
- Pro-AM event in conjunction with our live events. We are looking at around 3-4 combination event where pro-am will be alongside the pro guys and have a chance to be pitted, experience and compete in a professional environment. Again, something for the grassroots. We announced this at SEMA
- HIN Pro-Am events - There will be additional opportunities at HIN events to license and be invited to pro-am nationals. More on this soon, but lots of opportunities and cool stuff for the AM's
- FD Panama - Just did 15k people in Panama

Check out our blog. We have new stuff on there everyday.

In this economic environment (which is something you might experience once in your lifetime) we are keeping almost everything we do from live event to TV status quo or better. That's saying a lot considering how crappy it is right now.

If you really want any cause to be served better, how about you stop changing your dates to conflict with other drift events, and then stop taking money away from drivers. Boasting about all the tire companies you roped in over the years is great for your personal ego but very selfish and short sighted. The one single thing “more than anything else” drivers need is the support from these same tire companies and you single-handedly wipe out those budgets, well done! I applaud you for continually seizing money and opportunities away from drivers, how much longer can you pull the wool over our eyes is my real question.

Now that we have established we don't change dates and how stupid that would be do to, can you explain how we take money from drivers? As a matter of fact we have helped many drivers with deals to fund their presence in FD and furthermore we provide tire sponsors deeply discounted sponsor packages so that they can achieve their marketing goals through the series and still have $ to support teams. Again, you only need to look at the many examples of this in the series to understand facts.

Except for the few top FD drivers I am not sure how FD benefits the entire drift industry as a whole. Narrow-minded, shortsighted views, continual fear mongering and event date changing not to mention manipulating the truth (as proven above) has apparently become FD’s business model. Now that you have perceived D1 as a new competitor you are thrashing around like a spoiled brat. Don’t change dates; let drivers decide where to be for the benefit of the sport, and not just for your benefit.

You just made my own point, the drivers have decided. Again, why is the support from a driver, team and sponsor perspective lopsidedly on our side. If we are what you say we are and do what you say you do, logic would tell you that all those drivers, teams and sponsors would not want to be in the series.

So to sum up, what has your argument been deduced to now? You haven't pointed to any real evidence or factual data on pretty much anything, but I invite you to call me personally and we can continue this discussion or we can keep going on here. Lord knows this is great fodder for all the readers.

[fast-finn]

Please enlighten me. The fact is it would be so stupid for us to intentionally book dates that conflict with not only other drifting events but almost any event in general. Ultimately doing that just hurts us and anyone involved in the series...drivers, team, sponsor.... and we would have to answer to all of them about why we would do something like. That's just dumb decision making.That's like event planning 101. I am surprised that you don't get that.

I guess I have to Enlighten you since seems like you have intensionally forgotten.
Last Year -08 when D1 was trying to make a come back to US they flew into Moroso motorsports park to schedule a date there, the very next week as D1 had their date tenatively scheduled with Moroso, FD called them and asked a date one week prior to D1's, FD also asked for a 3 month black out period prior and after their event. This is a fact that we can call immediately to Moroso's general manager and get a confirmation. FD did this without even ever stepping a foot on the Moroso's track and it was very obvious to Moroso that FD had no intension ever running an event there the only reason they tried to schedule a date there was in hopes that D1 could not host an event at Moroso due to their black out period.
So please stop pretending to be an angel when you are not.
So now that this is proven is it OK to call you stupid?

[GoukiS14]

my eyes and brain hurts